Scenario: I took delivery of my MINI Cooper CVT on June 6, 2003. Since the dealer is so far away and it is inconvenient for me to take it in for more frequent oil changes, I decided to trust the engineers at BMW (I know, I know) and take their word that keeping the original oil in the car without changing it for 10,000 miles was really not going to do any harm.

I go to the dealer this Monday for my first 10K oil change service (actually my MINI's OBC says I will need a change at 9,500 miles). But last week, at 8,932 miles, I ran the car to operating temperature and immediately siphoned out through the dipstick hole, 8 oz. of the oil, put it in the container that Blackstone Labs sent me, and mailed it in.

I just got a PDF of the results, and they are nothing to be worried about. Everything is well within the normal range for a car that has had its original oil in for this long during the break-in period. I could attach the PDF for everyone to see, but I don't know how...can that be done here?

Blackstone assured me that although some numbers were higher than expected, that is because of the high amounts of silicone released during break-in. They say that those numbers should become lower and lower with each successive oil change. We'll see, as I plan to continue the testing every 5K miles or so from here on in.

Here is Blackstone's expert synopsis of the original oil in my MINI after 8,932 miles without changing it:

"Joseph, don't let the highlights on this report bother you. We didn't find anything in this sample that one wouldn't expect to find for a factory oil that was run 8,932 miles. High wear and silicon are both common finds in oils from new engines. The wear is high due to break-in of new parts, while silicon is high from sealers and sand-casted parts. Universal averages show typical wear metals for an oil from this type engine after 3,450 miles of use. Your engine should settle to average wear by the third oil in the engine. The TBN was 3.6, showing plenty of additive left."

They also reported the viscosity of the oil to be 58.4, which is right on the money, and a flashpoint of 375, also right on. They found less than 0.5% fuel in the oil (<2.0 is considered normal), 0.0% antifreeze, and 0.0% water. They reported 0.4% "insolubles" (<0.6% is considered normal).

So, that's that. I'll do another test, probably at around 15,000 miles, and report the results here.

Motor On,

-MightyBoognish
(aka: Joe)

 

very informative. Thanks for sharing that. So it would seem that unless you are driving the car hard (and I hope we all are) the factory reccomended oil change intervals are fine. Seems like new engines could still benefit from an oil change before 10K just to get rid of the silicone eh? I'm not any expert of this..but I would think that getting the silicone particulates out would help on engine wear.

 

Very interesting indeed...:smile:

Peace,
D

 

The results are interesting, but you will need at least samples to determine any type of trend.

I just sent a sample of my oil off for analysis. The lab I used made the statement, that in order to determine any trend, at least three samples would be needed. When I have established a trend I will publish the results.

I have been changing my oil & filter at about 5K to 6K intervals. I have just over 50,000 miles on my MINI, April 2002 delivery.

 

Remember the OBC adjusts the oil change interval according to how you drive, length of trips between starts, etc. So it will adjust for how "hard" you drive it. My 10,000 mile oil change was at 12,400+ if I remember correctly. I'm scheduled for my next service Thursday, and the OBC shows I'll be at 31,435 when it's due.

I agree with Paddy, it does take many samples to develop a trend, however only one to determine that the oil breakdown is minimal. I've been sending in engine oil samples every 12 hours of operation and all other gearboxes every 25 hours for about 25 years now. Of course that's on my helicopter.

I'm still burning about a half a quart between OBC recommended services.

 

I drive my car HARD really Hard and I believe it told me to have my first oil change after 12,000 miles. I did however change my oil at 1500miles. So I don't recomend letting the OBC be the judge.

 

I hope your helicopter is on the ground when you obtain the samples.....

 

Mighty M/ Joe

You might want to ask Blackstone to give you a report on content of the following expressed in ppm´s (parts per million):
Of course if you got them, could you share??
Iron - indicator of cylinder liner wear
Chrome- indicator of piston ring face wear
Lead - indicator of crank and con rod bearing wear.
Brass -as above.
Copper as above.
I am pretty sure the trick with TBN (total base number)is that it has to be compared to the TAN (Total Acid Number). An oil has both. If TBN equals TAN throw the oil out, it has lost its ability to fight off the acids that form.

 

>>I hope your helicopter is on the ground when you obtain the samples.....

There was this guy once........................

>> I drive my car HARD really Hard and I believe it told me to have my first oil change after 12,000 miles.

I also drive mine what I would call hard, however I think it has less to do with the style of your driving, and more to do with the type of driving you do.

This has been hashed and rehashed so many times, it all boils down to what your preferences are. The whole sales point for many years behind synthetic oil was the increased service interval. If my memory is still working, when Mobile 1 first came out the back of the bottle said something like "25,000 miles between oil changes"

 

At the present time I change my oil & filter evry 5K miles. This makes me feel good. I decided to try the oil analysis route to see if I could extend that interval and still feel confident that everything the engine was still being protected.

Yes, I have driven my MINI hard, but lately I have backed off a little bit, due to a warning ticket the other evening. I was very lucky that it was just a warning..... Also, once Spring really arrives here in the DC area, well you get the general idea

 

Pocketrocketowner,

Blackstone did provide a full PPM report...

Chromium: 2 PPM
Copper: 12 PPM
Iron: 40 PPM (This should become lower with each successive oil change, as the oil in my car is the original break in oil and contains all the break-in metals.)
Lead: 3 PPM
Tin: 0
Nickel: 3 PPM
Titanium: 0
Silver: 0
Boron: 27 PPM
Magnesium: 17 PPM
Silicon: 37 PPM (Kind of high, but this is due to break-in of new parts, silicon from sealers and traces of silicon left over from original sand-casting of the engine parts...again, should get lower with successive tests.)
Zinc: 873 PPM (Universal avg. is 903 so this if fine)
Barium: 7 PPM
Phosphorous: 702 PPM (750 is the universal avg.)
Molybdnenum: 281 PPM (universal avg. is 173 -- should become lower with each oil change, we'll see!)

They didn't include a reading for Brass...

Rock On,

-Joe

 

brass and bronze are alloys of mostly copper with a little zinc (sometimes tin
for brass) so it'd mainly show up in the copper assay.

_________________
Cristo ---- my brg/brg mc is: BLIKSEM

 

>>
>>Pocketrocketowner,
>>
>>Blackstone did provide a full PPM report...
>>
>>Chromium: 2 PPM
>>Copper: 12 PPM
>>Iron: 40 PPM (This should become lower with each successive oil change, as the oil in my car is the original break in oil and contains all the break-in metals.)
>>Lead: 3 PPM
>>Tin: 0
>>Nickel: 3 PPM
>>Titanium: 0
>>Silver: 0
>>Boron: 27 PPM
>>Magnesium: 17 PPM
>>Silicon: 37 PPM (Kind of high, but this is due to break-in of new parts, silicon from sealers and traces of silicon left over from original sand-casting of the engine parts...again, should get lower with successive tests.)
>>Zinc: 873 PPM (Universal avg. is 903 so this if fine)
>>Barium: 7 PPM
>>Phosphorous: 702 PPM (750 is the universal avg.)
>>Molybdnenum: 281 PPM (universal avg. is 173 -- should become lower with each oil change, we'll see!)
>>
>>They didn't include a reading for Brass...
>>
>>Rock On,
>>
>>-Joe
>>
Joe:
So you know, an iron of more or less 200 ppm is BAD news.
Zinc is part of the additive pack, so is Phos and molybdenum (which confirms to me the MINI oil is the European Version of Castrol Syntec).
Mag also comes in with the additve pack.
Cheers

>>

 

Pocketrocket,

Thanks for the info about the MINI oil being the European version of Castrol Syntec, and that those elements are part of the additives.

Also, you say "so you know, an iron of more or less 200 is BAD news."

That said, if the iron ever reaches ~200 PPM then that is the time to be worried? 40 PPM isn't too bad, right?

-Joe

 

>>
>>
>>Pocketrocket,
>>
>>Thanks for the info about the MINI oil being the European version of Castrol Syntec, and that those elements are part of the additives.
>>
>>Also, you say "so you know, an iron of more or less 200 is BAD news."
>>
>>That said, if the iron ever reaches ~200 PPM then that is the time to be worried? 40 PPM isn't too bad, right?
>>
>>-Joe
>>
>>Correctomundo, particularly as it is a fairly new car and it is still working itself in.
Iron increases the longer the drain interval, mainly because the soot that accumulates in the oil acts like sandpaper on the cylinder walls, which are the softer than the rings and thus wear more rapidly.
Cheers
PKT RKT (he who knows about lubricants - thinks he does anyway.....)
PS:
If you are really nice to me, I can tell you of a nifty little set up I have on my F-350 where I get my sample of oil WHILE runnig and at the dash!!! Talk about nifty. With two people, you don't even need to stop!

 

 

Looks like you got a problem there. Any idea's what might be going on?

 

I think what happened at Road Atlanta I put in some leaded gas.

 

Silicon is high. What kind of air filter are you using?

 

Ouch.......to bad for your cat !

 

Yeah, lead is bad. High silicone usually means bad air filtration. From the reports I've seen, BMW (MINI) oil is actually very good (not your garden variety Castrol Syntec 5w-30). It has a good amount of Moly in it and meets ACEA A3B3 specs. I've been using German Castrol 0w-30 for my past couple changes but will be switching over to Redline on my next change. I had been using Mobil 1 5w-30 previously but stopped after hearing issues with it shearing down quickly. Mozzarrella, look at your viscosity at 210*F, it's on the thin side of a 30 weight after 1k miles.

 

Yep, the trend is a good part of it (I know because we needed to monitor the BMW S54 engines given the issues with them).

I believe the manual states that the motor oil should changed once a year regardless of how low the miles are, and from what I've seen that is minimum number of oil changes advised for every modern car for a variety of reasons all of which may or may not be reflected in an oil analysis.

 

Alta ....

 

I know the post above is from 2004 so I wanted to add something.

Our MCSa first adjusted oil interval according to the above (and seemingly oil condition). I noticed that when I did the first oil chang at 2,000 miles, the OBC analyzed the new oil and adjusted the next oil change interval accordingly. This happened within hours of the oil change and driving it.

However, at the first dealer oil change, Mini switched to the 15k mile oil change intervals and reset my next interval accordingly. Since then the OBC no longer seems to adjust oil change intervals. I did an oil change 7k miles after Mini's initial 12k mile oil change and the OBC never reset.

 

The OBC doesn't analyze anything, it is simply a display unit for the end user for MPG, etc... In fact, the SIA data isn't even a function of the OBC. The OC/service intervals are determined solely by fuel consumption and does not reset when the oil is changed, only when the SIA data are reset. The Kombi(instrument cluster) doesn't know when you've changed your oil and won't extend the service data, unless your getting that much better gas mileage after the oil change, which I doubt has changed very much. If the trend of your Kombi's service mileage matches and stays fairly consistant with the actual mileage of the car, than that just means that you are driving the average of what the SIA has preprogrammed for when the service is due.

HTH,

Chad