Rockers knocking and a P00AA code, help?
#1
Rockers knocking and a P00AA code, help?
Hi All
I have an interesting issue going on with my wifes 07 cooperS. The problem started a couple months ago where the car started hunting and would stumble at idle. I figured ok, dirty injectors (@ 56K miles), ill run seafoam later. I cleaned the K&N filter, cleaned the MAF, issue was still present. Earlier this week she started the car, and it immediately started making a knocking noise in the cam area. I thought, ok, timing chain tensioner again. Pulled the valve cover, and the chain was fine. When I started the car the sound was coming from one of the HRLs on the front CAM around cylinder 3 or 4 (which ever one is driver side front). We called Mini, they said since its out of warranty, we would have to pay for towing (they are 30 miles away) and cost of repairs. ...grrr
I did some more digging around, and someone had posted on here that oil may be the issue. She was 2.5K away from an oil change, so I went ahead and changed the oil (Mobile1 0W30). The knocking is still present. I hooked up a OBDII scanner for S@G, and noticed the even though I didnt have a CEL, there was a P00AA code being stored and It would immediately return after clearing. I then cleaned the IAT and the under hood cable connections, tried to reset the code and it immediately returned. The sensor is reading temperature (according to the OBDII reader, it was displaying a temperature), the engine is still knocking, hunting and stumbling at idle.
ok..back history done ....
Question1: Has anyone had this happen to them before? If so, what did they do to rectify the situation?
Question2: Could it be the MAF and not the IAT?
Question3: Is the knocking being caused by a bad sensor throwing timing out? (explaining the hunting and stumbling at idle)
Question4: Could the P00AA be a symptom of another issue? if so what and how would one check that out?
Thanks for any help or guidance.
I have an interesting issue going on with my wifes 07 cooperS. The problem started a couple months ago where the car started hunting and would stumble at idle. I figured ok, dirty injectors (@ 56K miles), ill run seafoam later. I cleaned the K&N filter, cleaned the MAF, issue was still present. Earlier this week she started the car, and it immediately started making a knocking noise in the cam area. I thought, ok, timing chain tensioner again. Pulled the valve cover, and the chain was fine. When I started the car the sound was coming from one of the HRLs on the front CAM around cylinder 3 or 4 (which ever one is driver side front). We called Mini, they said since its out of warranty, we would have to pay for towing (they are 30 miles away) and cost of repairs. ...grrr
I did some more digging around, and someone had posted on here that oil may be the issue. She was 2.5K away from an oil change, so I went ahead and changed the oil (Mobile1 0W30). The knocking is still present. I hooked up a OBDII scanner for S@G, and noticed the even though I didnt have a CEL, there was a P00AA code being stored and It would immediately return after clearing. I then cleaned the IAT and the under hood cable connections, tried to reset the code and it immediately returned. The sensor is reading temperature (according to the OBDII reader, it was displaying a temperature), the engine is still knocking, hunting and stumbling at idle.
ok..back history done ....
Question1: Has anyone had this happen to them before? If so, what did they do to rectify the situation?
Question2: Could it be the MAF and not the IAT?
Question3: Is the knocking being caused by a bad sensor throwing timing out? (explaining the hunting and stumbling at idle)
Question4: Could the P00AA be a symptom of another issue? if so what and how would one check that out?
Thanks for any help or guidance.
#2
#3
#4
The N12 engine is completely different to the N14, the engine block may externally look the same, but that's as far as it goes.
They have completely different internals, the heads and valvetrain components are different too!
You will be best trying to identify the problem with your current N14 engine, it's relatively simple in it's build and component form, just think logically and work your way through, if you require further help, just ask the questions.
#5
I'd venture to say that your engine might not be toast. The noises you described and then the clunk no start make it sound like your vacuum pump locked up and caused the engine to skip time. an easy way to verify this, would be to pull the valve cover off, you will see that the exhaust cam gear is not attached anymore, also a couple of the lifters should be sitting in the head valley and not attached.
let us know what you find.
let us know what you find.
#6
In a short answer NO.
The N12 engine is completely different to the N14, the engine block may externally look the same, but that's as far as it goes.
They have completely different internals, the heads and valvetrain components are different too!
You will be best trying to identify the problem with your current N14 engine, it's relatively simple in it's build and component form, just think logically and work your way through, if you require further help, just ask the questions.
The N12 engine is completely different to the N14, the engine block may externally look the same, but that's as far as it goes.
They have completely different internals, the heads and valvetrain components are different too!
You will be best trying to identify the problem with your current N14 engine, it's relatively simple in it's build and component form, just think logically and work your way through, if you require further help, just ask the questions.
Oh man that sucks. I was hoping to just swap manifolds and be back on the road....
#7
I'd venture to say that your engine might not be toast. The noises you described and then the clunk no start make it sound like your vacuum pump locked up and caused the engine to skip time. an easy way to verify this, would be to pull the valve cover off, you will see that the exhaust cam gear is not attached anymore, also a couple of the lifters should be sitting in the head valley and not attached.
let us know what you find.
let us know what you find.
..anyone know of a good longblock source for a N14/R56? Ebay has nothing.
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#8
Check your local junk yards.
Don't give up hope, although I am in the UK, I have a whole host of stock engine components in my workshop (used) which maybe of use to you, if you can't find anything stateside.
#9
The Peugeot 207 GT and GTI, engine codes EP6DT and EP6DTS have the same engine too!
Check your local junk yards.
Don't give up hope, although I am in the UK, I have a whole host of stock engine components in my workshop (used) which maybe of use to you, if you can't find anything stateside.
Check your local junk yards.
Don't give up hope, although I am in the UK, I have a whole host of stock engine components in my workshop (used) which maybe of use to you, if you can't find anything stateside.
#10
can you crank it by hand? pull the plugs out and see if it will turn over by hand.
is the vacuum pump siezed, try pulling the vacuum pump off and try cranking it over to see if it will turn over wit hthat removed. 2007 cars had issues with the vacuum pumps anyway and with high milage it is a possibility.
i've only seen one engine sieze and it was flat towed behind an rv while in gear. it took out the engine, trans, 2 tires and the clutch.
is the vacuum pump siezed, try pulling the vacuum pump off and try cranking it over to see if it will turn over wit hthat removed. 2007 cars had issues with the vacuum pumps anyway and with high milage it is a possibility.
i've only seen one engine sieze and it was flat towed behind an rv while in gear. it took out the engine, trans, 2 tires and the clutch.
#11
can you crank it by hand? pull the plugs out and see if it will turn over by hand.
is the vacuum pump siezed, try pulling the vacuum pump off and try cranking it over to see if it will turn over wit hthat removed. 2007 cars had issues with the vacuum pumps anyway and with high milage it is a possibility.
i've only seen one engine sieze and it was flat towed behind an rv while in gear. it took out the engine, trans, 2 tires and the clutch.
is the vacuum pump siezed, try pulling the vacuum pump off and try cranking it over to see if it will turn over wit hthat removed. 2007 cars had issues with the vacuum pumps anyway and with high milage it is a possibility.
i've only seen one engine sieze and it was flat towed behind an rv while in gear. it took out the engine, trans, 2 tires and the clutch.
Thanks!
I will try this as well. It snowed last night, so I didnt have a chance to try these steps. It is supposed to snow off and on until friday. Worse case, Ill try it this weekend, and report back.
Thanks again for the help.
#12
Update
So I called Ralph Schomp since it really looked like a timing chain issue. They have been good to us with our other mini issues and helped me tow it in. The timing chain did jump teeth, something ate up the #4 cylinder (they scoped it) and the other pistons showed contact with the valves. Waiting now to hear what my options are. …. Fingers crossed…….
So I called Ralph Schomp since it really looked like a timing chain issue. They have been good to us with our other mini issues and helped me tow it in. The timing chain did jump teeth, something ate up the #4 cylinder (they scoped it) and the other pistons showed contact with the valves. Waiting now to hear what my options are. …. Fingers crossed…….
#13
This is a WORLD CLASS ACTION : Please, Sign It here ( COOPER S R56 --> EP6 motor aka Prince et PEUGEOT/CITROËN --> EP6 motor THP- Turbo High Pressure)
http://www.action-collective.com/peu...tion-18253.htm
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=108738409151303
http://www.motoringfile.com/2010/01/...comment-856350
http://www.action-collective.com/peu...tion-18253.htm
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=108738409151303
http://www.motoringfile.com/2010/01/...comment-856350
#14
http://www.france-info.com/chronique...13-81-423.html --> It's a famous french radiomedia ( A RADIO FRANCE Channel)
Voici sa retranscription (il faudrait qu'un membre francophone puisse traduire s'il vous plait!)...En France , on commence à faire reconnaitre le phénomène..Nous nous battons pour nous faire entendre
A Jean Remy MACCHIA Chronicle:
Moteur à essence 1.6 de Peugeot-Citroën / Mini : souci de fiabilité:
Ce n’est pas une épidémie d’envergure, ni une hécatombe, comme a pu les connaître le moteur 1.5 dCi de Renault monté sur les Scénic et Grand Scénic de 2003-2004.
Mais on est quand même dans une certaine répétitivité de ce défaut technique, qui affecte le fonctionnement de ce moteur 1.6 essence.
Moteur que vous retrouvez sur des Citroën C3, C4, C5, DS 3, DS 4. Mais aussi des Peugeot 207, 308, 3008, 508, 5008. Ainsi que sur toute la gamme des Mini.
Que se passe-t-il sur ce moteur ?
Un souci sur la chaîne de distribution. La chaîne métallique de distribution, c’est justement un choix technique qui est adopté, à la place d’une courroie en caoutchouc, pour éviter tout risque de rupture. Et c’est un élément qui est censé tenir toute la vie de la voiture, sans risque ni entretien particulier.
Sur ce moteur moderne, sorti en 2006, il y a, justement, un souci sur le tendeur hydraulique de la chaîne de distribution.
D’abord, vous entendez un bruit métallique. Surtout à froid, au démarrage. Au début, ce bruit disparaît lorsque le moteur monte en température.
Là, normalement, il faut déjà être alerté. Et consulter un représentant de la marque.
Sinon, les soucis peuvent être plus importants… ?
Exactement. Sinon, ce bruit au démarrage s’amplifie. Avec des claquements qui persistent une fois que le moteur est chaud.
Là, vous avez un moteur dont la chaîne de distribution est mal calée. Ce qui dérègle le rythme de levée des soupapes…
Au final, vous avez un moteur qui fonctionne de moins en moins bien – avec des pertes de puissance. Et les choses peuvent aller plus loin.
D’abord, une forte usure de la chaîne de distribution. Qu’il faudra changer. Mais ce n’est pas le plus grave.
Il y a un risque de casse moteur. Risque pas très élevé. Mais c’est arrivé à Frédéric, sur sa 207.
Comment réagissent les constructeurs concernés ?
C’est-à-dire Citroën, Peugeot et BMW – sur sa marque Mini. D’abord, ils minimisent l’étendue du problème. Même si les casses moteur ne sont pas très fréquentes, elles surviennent quand même sur quelques voitures – notamment celles où ce moteur est couplé à un turbo. Par exemple sur des Citroën ou Peugeot « THP » et les Mini Cooper S.
En usine, ce tendeur de chaîne qui a été à l’origine de tous ces soucis, a été modifié en 2010.
En après-vente, les attitudes diffèrent entre les trois marques.
Le remplacement du tendeur revient à 180-200 €.
Le remplacement de la chaîne coûte de 700 à 950 €. Et toutes ces opérations « curatives » ne sont prises en charge que partiellement par les marques. Et encore, après des demandes insistantes auprès des services après-vente.
Et les prises en charge, lorsqu’il y a un moteur à changer, ne sont que partielles.
Podcast --> http://rf.proxycast.org/m/media/242042201424/c=information/p=La+pratique+de+l%27auto_11580/l3=20110509/l4=/http://media.radiofrance-podcast.net/podcast09/11580-09.05.2011-ITEMA_20284426-0.mp3
Voici sa retranscription (il faudrait qu'un membre francophone puisse traduire s'il vous plait!)...En France , on commence à faire reconnaitre le phénomène..Nous nous battons pour nous faire entendre
A Jean Remy MACCHIA Chronicle:
Moteur à essence 1.6 de Peugeot-Citroën / Mini : souci de fiabilité:
Ce n’est pas une épidémie d’envergure, ni une hécatombe, comme a pu les connaître le moteur 1.5 dCi de Renault monté sur les Scénic et Grand Scénic de 2003-2004.
Mais on est quand même dans une certaine répétitivité de ce défaut technique, qui affecte le fonctionnement de ce moteur 1.6 essence.
Moteur que vous retrouvez sur des Citroën C3, C4, C5, DS 3, DS 4. Mais aussi des Peugeot 207, 308, 3008, 508, 5008. Ainsi que sur toute la gamme des Mini.
Que se passe-t-il sur ce moteur ?
Un souci sur la chaîne de distribution. La chaîne métallique de distribution, c’est justement un choix technique qui est adopté, à la place d’une courroie en caoutchouc, pour éviter tout risque de rupture. Et c’est un élément qui est censé tenir toute la vie de la voiture, sans risque ni entretien particulier.
Sur ce moteur moderne, sorti en 2006, il y a, justement, un souci sur le tendeur hydraulique de la chaîne de distribution.
D’abord, vous entendez un bruit métallique. Surtout à froid, au démarrage. Au début, ce bruit disparaît lorsque le moteur monte en température.
Là, normalement, il faut déjà être alerté. Et consulter un représentant de la marque.
Sinon, les soucis peuvent être plus importants… ?
Exactement. Sinon, ce bruit au démarrage s’amplifie. Avec des claquements qui persistent une fois que le moteur est chaud.
Là, vous avez un moteur dont la chaîne de distribution est mal calée. Ce qui dérègle le rythme de levée des soupapes…
Au final, vous avez un moteur qui fonctionne de moins en moins bien – avec des pertes de puissance. Et les choses peuvent aller plus loin.
D’abord, une forte usure de la chaîne de distribution. Qu’il faudra changer. Mais ce n’est pas le plus grave.
Il y a un risque de casse moteur. Risque pas très élevé. Mais c’est arrivé à Frédéric, sur sa 207.
Comment réagissent les constructeurs concernés ?
C’est-à-dire Citroën, Peugeot et BMW – sur sa marque Mini. D’abord, ils minimisent l’étendue du problème. Même si les casses moteur ne sont pas très fréquentes, elles surviennent quand même sur quelques voitures – notamment celles où ce moteur est couplé à un turbo. Par exemple sur des Citroën ou Peugeot « THP » et les Mini Cooper S.
En usine, ce tendeur de chaîne qui a été à l’origine de tous ces soucis, a été modifié en 2010.
En après-vente, les attitudes diffèrent entre les trois marques.
Le remplacement du tendeur revient à 180-200 €.
Le remplacement de la chaîne coûte de 700 à 950 €. Et toutes ces opérations « curatives » ne sont prises en charge que partiellement par les marques. Et encore, après des demandes insistantes auprès des services après-vente.
Et les prises en charge, lorsqu’il y a un moteur à changer, ne sont que partielles.
Podcast --> http://rf.proxycast.org/m/media/242042201424/c=information/p=La+pratique+de+l%27auto_11580/l3=20110509/l4=/http://media.radiofrance-podcast.net/podcast09/11580-09.05.2011-ITEMA_20284426-0.mp3
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