I had posted over on the Clubbie forum about this '08 Clubbie S (48K miles) repo that I am considering as a project car. The listing states that the car turns over, but will not run.


After speaking to the dealer, I have a question about what he described that is better suited to this forum. He said that the timing chain guides were broken and there was a loose rocker arm.


As I am considering this for a project car with my teenage son, the timing chain is not too much of a worry, but the "loose rocker arm" is a great concern.


It is probable that whatever happened to the timing chain caused the rocker to loosen. To make a good purchasing decision on this car, I need to know what exactly I would have to deal with. Could the "loose rocker arm" also go along with valve and/or piston damage? What questions should I ask of the dealer? If I make the drive to look at it, what should I look for?


Thanks for your input.

 

I'm not a mechanic, but I think you'd need to do two things. First, the valve cover needs to come off for an inspection of the timing chain. Second, it needs a compression check for valve damage and can see if the cams and valves are opening and closing correctly.

 

If the chain guides are broken, the chain will not be held in place as well as it should be. It is possible for the chain to come completely off in that case, which gives you a very high probability of the pistons smashing into open valves. It is also possible for one or both cams to "jump time", meaning the gear skips one or more teeth on the gear. If a cam goes far enough out of time, it is also possible for the piston to smash one or more of the valves that are controlled by that cam.

In the former case, the engine will not run--the valves do not open and close at all. In the latter case, the engine could possibly still run, though it will probably not run very well.

I can imagine that a piston smashing into a valve might cause problems with that valve's rocker arm. (In fact, some old Porsche racers I have seen use the rocker arms as "mechanical fuses", in that they will break if the valves are hit by the pistons before the valve bends!) Something similar might have happened here, or it might be that the one rocker arm assembly was not installed quite correctly (not enough torque on the fasteners?) and vibration from the chain problems or from valves "kissing" the pistons may have caused the fasteners to loosen or some such.

Yes, I think it is possible for the "loose rocker arm" to be due to the chain problem. But it is also possible that the actual problem is rather worse than "oh, just tighten that thing". Be prepared for that fact that it might be a lot more serious than that.

As AZdsrt said, a physical inspection of the valve train would be a really good idea, as well as a compression test. And it's probably a good idea to get a borescope (there are USB ones you can get for cheap!) with any 2nd-gen MINI S so you can check for carbon deposits--so use that scope through the spark plug hole and look inside the cylinders to see if there are any extra pieces in there, or obvious marks on the piston crown, etc.

 

Slave,

That is the information that I was looking for. Thank you very much for your write up.

I would have to take a half day's drive to check it out, so this information will help me to query the dealer to determine if the drive is worth it. His terms in relation to the timing chain were not what I had in my mind and I was trying to translate what he was saying as he moved on to other points. I can now be more pointed in my questioning.

Thanks again.