I just bought an 02 non S that ran over something that holed the oil pan. Th driver continued to operate the vehicle until the motor seized. I do not have possession of the car yet. If the motor is not economically repairable I am going to need a motor. Anyone have a similar experience and care to share their experience? I am mostly interested to find out what part of these motors tend to fail first in this somewhat unusual situation. I suspect bearings in the order of rod, main and then cam. Thanks :smile: null

 

Welcome to MCO!

Now that this is a done deal (I assume), do you mind sharing with us how much you paid for an 02 Cooper sans motor?

 

Hmmm, guessing-mode ON:

Cam bearings don't have really HUGE forces on them, and they are a
LITTLEcooler than combustion temps, so I'd think they would be the
last to go.

So, Rod big-end, little-end or crankshaft main bearings first?

little-end rod bearings... Hot, lots of force, small, but they don't move
round-and-round, just back and forth a little. I'd guess not first.

Big-end rod bearings. round-and-round. Lots of force. This is my guess.

Crankshaft bearings. lots of force, round-and-round. Probably right up
there with big-end rod bearings.

Now what about oil-pump? probably fine huh?
And no distributor, so you're good there.

I'm going to guess all bearings on the crank. MAYBE you can have the crank
ground, and get larger bearings.

Maybe little-end rods are fine, and cam is fine.

That's my FINAL answer. Let's hope I'm not the weakest-link.

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Running w/o oil is not a good thing. I'd look for a totaled MC and get the engine/drivetrain for a complete swap. Then you can do some investigating as to what parts from the seized lump are still servicable.

 

Only have two words for this......SKID PLATE!

 

yeah - good argument for a skid plate ...
... if the previous owner didn't say much about the clunking one would hear from chewed-up, gauled, spun bearings, then the real problem would be rings and pistons - they are what actually seize.
So you have the opportunity of getting one of the first "big-bore" MINI's! ... at '+0.25' it may not be much (and will be expensive, anyway) but you get to be the guinea pig - keep us posted on how it turns out!

 

Total engine replacement is the best way to go. I had a POS Mitsu that had a turbo failure once and had to get the engine rebuilt. The engine only lasted another year before the bearings they thought were ok ended up going. Won't insurance pay for this? If not WHY NOT?
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[img]albums/album25/ama.gif[/img]VinceAndJessica.com
Alta pulley, Stebro exhaust, Pipercross intake, Progress rear anti-sway bar.

 

Lots of tolerances will be affected by sustained, severe overheating--eg, my wife recently burned up a 4.6L modular motor (ford) when the oil got too low. When I dropped the pan and looked at the rod bearings they didn't look that bad (not much knocking either) but as time went on, the oil pump would kick out at higher rpms bc the tolerances weren't right any longer. The internals on the MINI are obviously quite different, but the point is that since you can't predict where the weak link in the system will be, you should try to find a complete engine to swap out(actually, just a long block if you can find one).

e

 

How much did you pay for the car? Is the title clean ?

 

The vehicle was purchased at auction from an insurance company this past Saturday during driving rain storm for a friendly price. All is not gold though since it will have a salvage title.

 

It's amazing to me that a 2002 Cooper could be totaled simply by having a blown engine. You can buy a whole new engine from MINI for under 4 grand. And in fact, depending on how "friendly" a price you paid you may very much want to consider this option (buying a new engine). It would certainly be much more dependable -- and warrantied for at least some amount of time -- than a self-rebuild.

 

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts. The car was from a rental company with 14,000+ miles on it. No scrapes or damage other than a missing left rear fender guard.

I tend to agree with those who suspect rod and or crank damage. Piston and bore scoring is also probable. Hopefully no mains were spun. I think what I will do is remove the engine since it has to come out no matter what then pull the head and pan and go from there.

I have located a 03 long block for $2250 outright with no miles on it from a wrecking yard. Does this sound like a fair price if it is what they say?

I will keep all of you posted, but be patient cause it will take a month or so before I receive the car and can find the time to start on it. :smile:

 

Wow, that's one heck of a project your taking on there... good luck, and don't forget the pics!

Rocketboy_X

 

Where or where have all the rebuilders gone....
Oh where oh where have they gone?

I'm thinking that the people voting for complete replacement
instead of rebuilding MIGHT have never rebuilt an engine.

Engines are pretty tough beasts. I had a 1959 Ford Country squire
(I think it was a squire. Maybe sedan) wagon with the original,
unrebuilt 305 in it with something shy of a bazillion miles on it.

The valve-guide seals disintegrated over the years, and part
of one (or more likely many small parts of several) got into the
oil pump, jammed it, sheared the oil pump drive shaft, and I drove
until it froze. Who ever checks the oil-light on startup? Well I sure
do now.

Anyway, the engine came out, one piston was stuck, a hammer handle
got it pounded out, a light grind on the crank, some oversized bearings,
a new pump and shaft, and it lasted another 40,000 miles before I
sold it off.

So, I for one would not be terribly worried about reliability. Worn
bearings usually don't just go BLAMMO, they just make more noise.

Well, if you're going to go racing every night, then really don't replace
the engine since you're just going to wear it out anyway. :smile:

So, take the replace it or you;ll never get a reliable engine talk
with some salt.

I like your idea of actually LOOKING at the shape it's in before making
a decision.

In fact, try to turn it over using a wrench on the crank. It might not even
be siezed anymore. Somtimes several heat/cool cycles get things
loose again. BUT DON"T START IT ANYWAY until you do some checking.

 

WRT engine rebuilding - I think the issue people are addressing is total cost/expected outcome. If you have only a bit of cash and lots of time, equipment, a place to work on it and a parts runner you can rebuild. However, by the time you pay for the hoist, machining work and various and sundry parts (like pistons), borrow the vehicle to haul the block to the shop, it can easily make sense just to buy the whole unit. Add into that the 'thing you missed' which can then destroy some of those nice new parts you just bought, and add downtime and more cost.
Cost of labor and space, at least here in CA is a huge issue. It kills me that it's cheaper to buy something new than to fix the old, but that's just the economics of it.

 

... thanks, Trippy - a breath of (old school) fresh air ...

I, too think that rebuilding (vs. rebuilt) is the way to go: to begin with, one is recycling instead of trashing .... and secondly, a factory motor (new or rebuilt) isn't given the care that an individual can afford to give - you can take those reciprocating parts to the machine shop and get them ballanced which will give you a noticable smoother running motor and extend it's life as well.
Have some fun - become a gearhead ...

 

Just to note (as perhaps my comment on buying new vs. rebuilding started some of the current discussion...), I have rebuilt my share of engines. Starting with a GM 350 V8 when I was a teenager to a straight 6 BMW (several times) more recently. It's a wonderful hobby and fine if you happen to have the free time to invest and/or would rather spend time rebuilding vs. driving. Clearly deerharb wants to rebuild...so he (she?) should go for it.

I am of the opinion -- right or wrong -- that my old school rebuilding skills would be put very much to the test by working on a modern engine such as the MINI. That, and the time required to get it right, leave me personally at a place where I'd leave the work to a professional. I can find other ways to enjoy myself automotively. But of course, to each their own.

 

I am really hoping that it is rebuildable since I have the space, equipment and skill to do the job. Time is always a problem, but.... I will need a factory shop manual for the specs, etc. Will anyone out there photocopy one for a reasonable price? Maybe a mild cam and some head work can be done to to improve the breathing while it is apart.

Good suggestion about seeing if it will turn over before disassembly.

There is really no excuse for any modern motor to ever seize due to loss of oil pressure. It can't cost the manufacturer more than a few dollars to have a sensor that cuts the ignition in that event. Then again they wouldn't sell as many parts. :smile: