Besides being the first to post , I thought it would be good to express why I'll be going into STS once I get a MC.

Style:
The MINI is a high-style, high-profile, individualistic car yet almost everyone on this forum insists on modifying it further. I'm of the same ilk. I love being an individual and there isn't a better expresion of this than modding a car. It's a rolling billboard to your brand of individualism. And I'm certain those in the SCCA Stock classes wish they could do more mods. I now that's how I felt with my D-Stock WRX although it is Blaze Yellow (one of only 450 in the US).

Power:
OK, the MC is not the fastest in the line but it's not a complete slouch. And when it comes to STS, the reigning king, the Frankencivic is not a powerful car either. The Si engines is 108 hp. With allowable mods, it's probably 120 max. But the Mini can respond well too with 130 potentially. Power-to-weight is down comparatively but STS isn't a power class (it's not STX or SM/2). But for a MCS to be competitive in STX, it needs as much power as it can since the WRX has >50 more when all is said and done. (And folks, 50 more HP is significant.)

Handling:
This is where the true light can shine. The MINI has great handling potential. It's a short car with a shorter wheelbase. It has 4-wheel independent suspenstion with enough adjustments, once all rules are fully applied, to allow it to be dialed in. This is true for all classes the MINI is in except for Stock. The OEM suspension is good for limiting tire wear. The does well in H-Stock because it's misclassed. The Neon's dominance in the old D-Stock prompted some sweeping changes. Expect something to be moved into H or the Mini to be moved out in the another year or two.

Cost:
The MC is $3k cheaper. And regardless of what the MCS offers for that $3k, it's still $3k. That $3k can buy half of the allowable performance modifications of STS. And if you spend carefully, all of it. In stock, you need to spend money on tires and shocks. You're still looking at $1500. But to get an S and run competitively in STX, you're looking at $2k to buy and install an LSD (can't win without it.) Plus the widest tire I've seen on a MINI is 225. The class allows 245 and there are cars that can use it.

Misc:
The class requires minimal preparation at the track. I hated having to carry and switch tires at the track. Usually you have to get up early to get to the track to register and walk the course. If you have to change tires, you're going to exert effort and time. It's difficult to remain relaxed or to focus during this strenuous exercise. For most in STS, it's a matter of adding air and that's it. There are things that you can do, like checking the alignment, but you don't have to. It's a real "run whacha brung" class.

Well, that's a start. MC in STS offers the opportunity to stylize the car without running foul of the rules, it's got good handling potential and enough power, and it's costs are easier to deal with while not being like everyone else. If you're going racing, you might as well make as few compromises as possible while having the chance of being competitive. What's your thoughts?

John

 

Very well thought out DWC!

I personally don't think the MC in H Stock is missclassed. I don't think it would win in any other class. Maybe, MAYBE it could go to G Stock, since the supercharger can get in the way for the MCS. I have an MCS, and ran in G-Stock last season. I've added an intake and soon a borla sport exhaust, koni's, and maybe a rear sway. But I'm not going to run STX, I love my sticky tires way too much, and I'm not going to add a LSD. I don't wanna go up against the subarus. Like you said... 50 bhp is significant, and AWD to boot. I guess it all comes down to who you run against in your region. Here in SCR, there's a ton of WRXs & Neons to deal with in ST classes, SM has too many cars with WAY more mods than I could afford, and DSP has a 4 - 5? time National Champion in this Division.


David
-V--V-

On a side note, I'm glad to see well thought out posts in the SCCA Threads. Almost a fresh breeze compared to some of the other "mod/racing" areas on NAM.

 

John- Great post. you are the first STS MINI I know of.
I agree with David and the MINI is in the correct class (HStock). The MCS has benn moved to G Stock from D Stock when it first hit the streets, so that makes the chances of the Cooper going to GS fairly remote.
As for the Frakencivics, the update backdate allowances for STS are no longer legal, so we may see many MINIs lining up with street tires this year. I think a well prepared MINI will do very well in STS. The lack of LSD can be equallized with stiffer front and rear bars.
I have been toying with the idea of STS, but my racing budget this year is only good for Hoosiers and travel to the events. I have done all the mods I can on my car for stock already so I am forced to stay in HStock. As I re-read the post it sounds like I am complaining about the class I'm in and I have the overdog. The modification addiction is tough to beat
Hello, my name is Chris and I'm a mod-aholic.
Chris

 

Hi, DancesWithCones! I'm right behind you :smile: ; tentative as he obviously won't be inspecting my MC himself) & to get approval from our local Solo II Chair --> he also gave me a tentative thumbs up :smile: ). Continuing the saga... let a few of my local Solo II buds know of my jumping ship &, lastly, ordered new panels sporting "STS" from Solotime (solotime.com or e-mail Jean Alft direct at solotime@southwind.net --> excellent work). I'll post here following the 25th's event with results & pics.

Great post, DancesWithCones! Your take on the MC in STS = feasibility, sensibility, and nothing but pure fun . Once again, I'm right behind you!

 

>>Hi, DancesWithCones! I'm right behind you .

And here I sat pensively, in my flame retardent skivies, awaiting a backflash from my comments. And for no reason. Thanks for all the kind words, even from the H-Stock forum moderator.

I'm thinking of assembling two FAQs, one on the rules and the second on how to adjust the car when given what a particular track situation. The first is obvious. The second represents an area where trial and error doesn't always work if you don't start in the right direction. I'm not an expert but I do have a few years of STS experience and understand car dymanics enough to help someone at the track. The end result could be considered a between runs cheat-sheet. It would be enough information such that an individual who's honest about their ability, could take some corrective action and see their times improve with each run.

Ex Q: How do I stop the car from plowing all the outside cones in a corner?

Ex A: Before changing the car, check your track notes. Is the corner off camber, bumpy, or full of gravel. If the conditions are not optimal, you're probably not going slow enough. If this is the problem in every corner, consider reigning in your aggression. If you are under control, check your tires pressure after the run to make certain they're not set too high (heat build up can cause a rise in pressure.) ...

Any thoughts?

John

 

John, Email Mark about moderating the STS forum. You are right for the job.
Chris

 

>>John, Email Mark about moderating the STS forum. You are right for the job.
>>Chris

^^^*John's got my vote!

*Chris: If you don't mind, I'll be asking you various Solo II questions in the coming months. You seem to be one of the most knowledgeable NAM members/mods AND actual Solo II competitor.

Once again, STS (& other classes) pics to come in less than two weeks

 

>>John, Email Mark about moderating the STS forum. You are right for the job.
>>Chris

Tempting but would the membership accept advice from a future MC owner? I'm waiting for winter to thaw to get rid of at least 2 cars before I can purchase the Gold MC. I'll PM Mark and see what he thinks. Thanks for the recommendation Chris.

 

>>>>John, Email Mark about moderating the STS forum. You are right for the job.
>>>>Chris
>>
>>^^^*John's got my vote!
>>
>>*Chris: If you don't mind, I'll be asking you various Solo II questions in the coming months. You seem to be one of the most knowledgeable NAM members/mods AND actual Solo II competitor.
>>
>>Once again, STS (& other classes) pics to come in less than two weeks
Thanks for the kind words, when you say competetior you mean one who shows up for events, not a trophy winner. That's why a friend and I formed Trophy Fodder Racing- we are the percentage that makes the top 10% possible. I have been autocrossing for a little over two years and have been very lucky to meet and hang out with some really fast drivers (Aro, Garfield, West, Cormier). I try to keep up on all things Solo 2 related and most of my information has been through reading on various forums (SCCA, Miata.Net, VMSC, etc.) I am planning on 5 tour events and from 1-3 ProSolos this year. Hope to see you all at the National events.
Chris

 

Hey Gang.
A couple of points I would like to add. Although there haven't been many, the first Nationally run STS MINI was the first season (2002), when I was running H and D Stock.
A MINI USA MINI Cooper was set up (I say this loosely) for STS at the Solo II Nationals for two MINI USA employees to run. The car was actually just an H Stock car, which Mike King was fairly successful in, with the addition of larger street tires and wheels. It's the same car in some of the BBS adds with the gold wheels.

I had thought about taking a factory car to STS last year, but decided against it. The problem with the Cooper in STS was that it was heavy and underpowered in comparison to it's competition.

What's so remarkable about a MINI is that it comes from the factory with an excellent suspension and very stiff chassis. After running a season in STX with a Cooper S, I've realized something significant. When you run FSP, DSP, STS, or STX, you eliminate one of the MINI's MAJOR advantages, the suspension. You give all of the competition a chance to catch up to your wonderful MINI by changing their suspensions, all the while you can't get too much better than that of the stock suspension.

This is not to say that someone can't win in a MINI, especially with the elimination of "Hybrid" cars, particularly the Civics.
But, you should plan on spending your money where it will make the MOST difference, which I feel is the weight. Do everything possible to loose weight and gain power.
*Seats, smaller brakes, wheels, swaybars, and battery are places where you could certainly loose some weight*
I would suggest running a 15x7 or wider wheel with a 205/50 Falken Azenis or Kumho MX.
Remember that these cars will run on FUMES (at least the three that I've raced did), and the gas is definitely something easily eliminated. I've autocrossed with the needle on the "E" line (not just the light) without fuel starving.

As far as a suspension, I never thought any of us at the National level had the car correct. If I did it over again, I'd probably run the Leda coilovers, but with factory spring rates. It's really a touchy thing with SOOO many variables. Right Mark?

Good Luck and Have Fun!!

Brian

 

Brian makes a good point about the MINI suspension being an advantage among the stock competitors but I don't agree that it can't get much better with aftermarket pieces. I will admit that some cars provide a greater differential between stock and aftermarket but that doesn't mean the improvements gained on the Mini aren't worth the effort.

Weight and power are issues. It would have been nice if BMW saw fit to drop in the 140 horse motor (slated for 2006) from the get go but they didn't. All of the weight saving measures you mentioned are good suggestions and all things that will go into the FAQ for STS.

But the one thing that bothers me about your post is your tone. We should encourage instead of discourage. For most of us, our goal is to win but not our obsession. To be honest, I wouldn't be considering a MINI if my only objective were to win STS. I'd be looking for a GC8 Subaru RS2.5 or Civic Si, and I'd be investing in a whole lotta lessons. I'm in these forums because I love the Mini, and I love to run Solo II, and I love to mod my cars (even if it's just a little.) The Mini is not ideal for STS but it's ideal for me.

 

^^^Terrific frankness above^^^

Peace to all

 

>>Handling:
>>It's a short car with a shorter wheelbase.

To quote Lumberg: "Yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there." The MINI is actually a short car with a long wheelbase, since the wheels are just about right on the ends, despite the fact the the whole car is short making the wheelbase generally shorter than that of other cars.

 

Although I didn't think my typing could have a "tone", and I never meant to be that negative, I do understand your point and apollogize if that's the impression I gave.

What I'd hate to see, and have by many autocrossers, is someone dumping loads of money into a car, not the driver, and complaining about not being competitive.

Locally, the MINI can and should win STS with a good driver (barring the top National STS drivers being present). Nationally, it hasn't been tried, so perhaps with the right driver and budget, the MINI Cooper could be at the top of yet another class.

Brian

 

As experienced Solo II competitors, we're aware of what cars may or may not be competitive. Your opinion, having been a national champion, will carry far more weight with those intereseted in joining the fun. The Mini has had success in STX , HS and GS at Nationals and ProSolo, and as you state, has potential given sufficient "motivation." I view my job as moderator of this forum to be an educator, and with the help of people like yourself, identify what is required to get the most out of the experience and out of the car.

I also hate to see people not reach their expectations because they're unwilling to impove the weakest part of the set-up, the driver. But that's jumping the gun a bit since no one has expressed their frustration with not winning.

The cool thing about STS is that it's a good place to start racing. The mods are simple and are usually what someone might do to gain some street cred and the modifications are easily reversible should someone decide that they can be competitive and want to move to stock. STS is a great "run whatcha brung" class. I've even seen friends with different cars, show up to see who would have bragging rights for the next few weeks.

Thanks for being understanding about how your comments could be taken. Keep looking in on this forum as there are very few National Champ Minis and you're insights into car prep and commitment are very valuable.

 

I'll be running my MC in STS this season as well... while I was trying to keep it in H Stock, I simply couldn't resist some other mods after I drove some other cars with those mods... and therefore, I'm now in STS.

Like DWC said, STS will allow me to make the mods to my car that I want to, in order to have more fun on twisty roads and on the street. And, I can still auto-x in a class that's very competitive, yet doesn't require an additional investment in another set of wheels/tires. Personally, I think the MC will be fairly competitive in STS, but only this season will tell!

 

One interesting thing the people are talking about over on the SCCAForums is that several people will be campaigning the newer Celicas this year - several drivers and instructors reported turning lap times very close to or faster than they did in a prepped Civic Si. And on one Celica, the suspension wasn't even dialed in? Hmmm...

So, who knows what this year will hold for STS?

I still think the MC has a decent enough power/weight ratio to be fairly competitive.

One other thing - some people are still mad about the MC being in H-Stock again this year. It's nice to see MC's and MCS' branching out into other classes now, IMHO, where we'll hopefully teach some other people a thing or two about the MINI! :smile:

 

The new Celica just required a little bit of development and it's about a year ahead of the MC in that regard. Hotchkis Tuning (aka. H-Sport) had a new Celica appear in SportCompactCar feature. It could pull over a g on the skidpad. Very impressive.

The key thing for the Cooper will be the additional power ('06) thru the Getrag 5-speed ('05). When ever a manufacturer changes the power output by 20%, they have to also look at the gearing. Mini will definitely gear for more acceleration. I think they'll be tired of hearing "anemic" describing the MC's acceleration (or lack there of.) If done right, the 2006 MC will be very formidable in STS.

That said, I'm still going to get a '04 MC (or used '03 if I can find a barebones one.) I'll sell it to get an '06. Going to the Chicago AutoShow tomorrow to check out the Solid Gold and the Paddy wagon just to feed my lust some more.

 

I have just re-visited this board after a long absence. It good to see that there is interest in MC in STS. I thought I was ploughing a lone furrow.

Elliot Harvey has been driving the car in STS in Florida this year. His results have been good, winning PAX by big margins at some local events and 4th in the Ft Myers Tour with a busted shock. We had hoped to do more national and Div events but the gods (and the SCCA in Atlanta) were against us. Maybe next year.

The car is competitive on some courses but, on those where we cant keep the speed up we suffer. There is just not enough grunt to get back up to speed. I have a Helix cat-back a Green Twister intake and remapped ECU. We were seeing 120 HP and a 10% torque improvement at the wheels.

What we have found is the biggest wins are the very stiff rear sway bar and camber plates in front. Other not so productive mods are the Leda coilovers, SSR 15 x 7.5 wheels. We have tried both Falken Azenis and Kumho MX and we prefer the Kumhos especially when it is hot and we are trying to run 3 drivers.

STS is by far the best class, more cars, better competition and more knowledgeable people to give you advice. However, I must admit I am about to start running my second Mini in STX and maybe DSP. I have been running it in GS for a while but I could not live with the screaming Hosiers. The Quaife makes huge difference.

Malcolm

 

mtwlawson,

Thanks for your comments. In time I think with enough MC drivers in H-stock some will want to do some mods and eventually move to STS.

A difficult thing about STS is with all the possible things to do where does one start and what approach seems to yield the greatest benefit.

Obviously there is a limit to gaining power so a few mods for power would help.
Intake- Promini/BMP? vs Moss?
Throttlebody? Not really worth the cost-limited gain.
ECU- powerchip vs One click? Which do you have?
Cat-back exhaust- Helix13 vs Rspeed vs Rogue? Supersprint?
Exhaust header?- I thought it's legal only with the stock cat?

Suspension- most have lowered springs and rear swaybar- but what about 19mm vs 22mm and which hole setting? Middle or soft?
Rear lower control arms to adjust rear camber.
Front camber plates to adjust front camber.
What are your camber and toe settings front and rear?

Are you running a 5 speed or CVT?

 

IMO the biggest bang for buck comes from the stiff (RDR) rear bar and front camber plates. This lets you cut down on understeer in sweepers and makes the tires last longer.

My ECU upgrade was a one-off done by Turner Motorsports, they read out map tables and had them reprogramed by someone in Europe.

Leda coilovers are nice but you can get good adjustment out of tire pressures.

Good starting points for settings are:
Camber -1.5 deg front/ -1.3 rear
Toe 0/0
tire pressures 35/32
Shocks 5/8

Recently we suspected that we have lost power but we have no idea what is the problem. We seem to be down on low end torque but above 4K it seems to be ok. But maybe its just the competition is getting faster . Especially that VW 1.8T. I cannot understand why it is in STS and not the MCS .

MAlcolm

 

It sounds like they used this guy:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=27803

I hope they were reasonable on the price.

 

I have to agree with Lawson, camber adjustment and rear bar are the best money spent. Although, I've had some success with trailbraking (to the point of getting the car to over rotate.)

Throttlebody is not a legal mod.

My observation is that power isn't that big of an issue until no further improvements can be made thru improving the skill of the driver. Gains are much greater thru that than with an extra 10HP. It can also add up pretty quick. Springs and shocks are much better investments. The Bilstiens are getting some very good reviews over in STX. They're not cheap but no more expensive than a new exhaust and ECU software.

The stock cat could be welded onto an aftermarket header (there are a few out there with which it is possible) but there would be little or no noticeable improvement since the cat and the exhaust valves are more restrictive than the cast stock exhaust header.

 

To the best of my knowledge, "front camber plates" are not allowed in STS, becuase the MINI has a McPherson strut suspension. At least that is what I read from the 2003 book.

 

You need an '04 rule book. You can't change lower control arms on a Mac Strut suspension, you have to use camber plates. Notice the rule you quoted says camber kits and describes what that consists of.