I'm a novice AutoX'er who used to road race, so I'm in the habit of 'smoother is faster' which I've found isn't so in AX. For reference, I'm running an '05 MCS, 15% underdrive, 2% over crank pulley, UniChip, Milltek Exhaust, Koni sports, 25mm RSB, JCW intake, Bridgestone RE71Rs. I'm running BMW club B Street.
I run against a pair of JCWs including a GP2, and am 2 sec slower consistently. I've found myself pushing through medium speed corners and think that I've figured out how to get through them quicker, and would like some input about whether it makes sense.
What I'm thinking is that I need to get onto the brakes sooner and harder to get my speed down below the cars optimum speed for the corner, then get back onto the throttle, as I start to turn in, then when the car starts to push, roll off the throttle to rotate the car, and get back on it when its rotated to power out of the corner.
Its hard to try this on the street, but where I've been able to, it seems to get me lined up and out of the corner quicker.
Input please?

 

OK,

There are many factors that would account for the other MINIs to be 2 seconds faster.

One test which is a great one is to allow one of those "faster drivers" to drive your MINI and see what kind of time they get. If they can drive your MINI 1+ second faster than you or even better then video or observe how they do it and "copy" their approach.

Although you mention pushing through a corner as being a problem there are many things that happen both before and after that moment (of understeer).

I would predict that if the other drivers are not understeering through the same corner they are not doing what you suggest. More likely they are using their brakes fully on approach to the turn and release brake just at the right time and with the right speed of release as to not create a nose dive. This management of weight transfer is key to minimize the tendency for the MINI to lift the inside rear wheel while turning, less time of wheel lift means more time to have all four tires on the road to help with turning and accelerating.

A word on understeer in corners- this is avoidable and should be a major goal if it seems a common occurence for you. The most experienced drivers know how to avoid understeer and it doesn't matter which car they are driving. You have to respect the turn speed for a given corner based on your car it's suspension and tires (which allow for grip).

Are the other MINIs running the same tire, wheel width and size, and suspension? Not likely they are the same, even the amount of heat cycles on tires can be a factor.

This is a good basic approach to turning-
http://www.drivingfast.net/techniques/racing-line.htm

Good luck

 

First and foremost, AX isn't easy. It's hard. Track driving has a lot of great experience that you can transfer, but there's enough difference to consider AX a completely separate discipline. Like knowing bass guitar really well and trying to learn a face melting improv'd heavy metal lead guitar solo. So #1 suggestion is don't get discouraged, you'll get faster with practice.

Also note that in a 45 second autocross run, you'll have as many inputs as maybe two or three full laps on a track. Everything is compressed and magnified. Every braking zone, every apex, every inch deviation of line matters.

And third, in AX there's little or no penalty for going beyond the limit. No rumble strips, no sand pits, no tire walls, no guard rails. Mentally being able to break that road race safety cushion and get the car right up to the ragged edge and keep it there alone would likely find you tons of time, I'm guessing.

Jump in and ride along with the fastest people in your club. Have people ride with you and give you pointers. Get up tight to those apex cones, every inch is time. Backside those things. Get on that gas sooner. Brake harder, so hard your eyeballs pop out, then harder than that. You should be hitting an inside cone every once in a while, and also be having to catch oversteer or even spinning your Mini. You should be finishing every run with a slight case of the shakes and a bead of sweat running down your brow, wondering how you made it. If you are not, you aren't pushing hard enough.

Smooth is fast in autocross, but there also needs to be a real sense of urgency with that smoothness. The really fast people attack a course like it owes them money, with a controlled, calculated aggression.

Good luck.

 

I ax in a 2005 S and a 2006 JCW

I got faster when I started squaring off the corners more, get the nose pointed hard & fast before throttle.

My jcw is a lot easier, it has an LSD so if I dont get turned enough I can still power through it

I run with 2 clubs, I win dstreet in one, and I get 2nd in the other against the local president, he's got 10 years experience in his jcw and hes in top 10 raw most of the time. I rode with him that's when I started to square corners more like he does, my best result was .9 seconds off him he was 5th overall pax I was 13th overall pax

 

Thanks Folks, That's a lot to think about.
Yes, AX ISN'T easy. The last of the season is this weekend, I'll be trying to brake harder, sooner, and try to swap cars with the GP2 driver (who was the first owner of my MCS) in the morning session-we've talked about this already.
Squaring off the corners-That's kind of what I was alluding to in my OP, getting the car to rotate on exit, but that requires braking Hard, Sooner, so that's where I'm going to start.
Thanks again, I'm always learning-The day I stop learning is the day I'm 6 feet under.

 

personally I've always struggled with low speed tight corners in this car - tends to prefer super fast, transition kind of elements. just have to make do with it sometimes, be willing to give up that speed, etc. getting the car looser will always help with that

 

That is brilliantly written. I've saved it in my MINI document file.

 

There is also a significant difference between your car's suspension and, at least, the GP2. The GP2 has stiffer front and rear springs, a stiffer front sway bar and -1.5 deg front camber. All of this will cut down the front end push. If the JCW's have the optional JCW suspension, they also will have a pretty good setup. You didn't note whether you have LSD. If you don't then this is also a big difference from at least the GP2. Point being, there are a lot of things that affect how quickly 2 seemingly similar cars go though a course and it may not be a fair comparison upon which to evaluate your own skill level.

The best thing to do, as you asked, is to improve your skills. There is a lot of good advice here. In addition to that, you should only race against yourself. Learn to do the best you can with what you have.

 

As a novice to AX I got the chance to ride in a Mini with a National level driver and learned a ton by just watching the controlled aggression. Then after winning 2 large novice classes (my first 2 events) I did a 1 day AX driving school (it was worth every dime) making 20 runs with 4 different instructors and learned how to manage the aggression staying in control. In order to learn where that fine line is one must step over it which I did several times and by the end of the school my times were becoming consistent and close to the instructors time so I was getting close to where I wanted to be at the end of the school. Do as suggested ride with the top drivers and let them drive your car to find out where that ragged line (I am not going to make it) is----AX is inches and milliseconds!!!!! Now I am in D/S with my 03 Copper S and am competitive in class and having a blast!!!!!

 

My suggestion would be to look at the next element. Decide where you want to edit the car and early apex it. Then throttle out. Going to small parking lot events helps.