in SCCA Stock? Just took a test drive and it was fun!

 

SCCA has not classed the Countryman in any Stock class yet.

According to SCCA fastrack Bulletin Feb 2012
scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/12-fastrack-feb-solo.pdf
NOT RECOMMENDED
Stock
Page 17
*6842, Mini Countryman classing. This model does not meet the provisions of Section 3.1 relating to rollover risk, as it does not have a published SSF rating and its average track width is smaller than its overall height.

 

Per the Fastrack I got today, it will NOT be classified due to the above stated rollover risk.

#8973, Mini Countryman AWD classing. Per the SAC, the Mini Countryman does not have a published SSF and its height
is more than its average track width, therefore it does not meet the current minimum rollover safety requirements for Solo
competition

 

Yes, I read this too. Of course this is an outdated BS rule. There are many older previously classified cars that don't meet this rule. SSF is no longer published for newer cars by the US Gov. although apparently it can be calculated IF the agency gets around to testing the cars. 2 years after introduction and they have still not tested the CM's!

I ran my car (stock with Sport Suspension option) in a practice AX-type event and had it observed by an experienced autocross car preparer. He said it looked good with minimal roll and never lifted a wheel. It was fun to drive and can get a bit of throttle-on oversteer in 2nd. It would be a good HS, maybe GS car depending on course.

Fortunately my club does not care about this SCCA rule. Unfortunately they do use SCCA classifications, so if I want to run a real event I would be in the 'anything goes' class.

 

Sorry to hear that the ALL4 is still not classed. Likely it would not be classed in HS or GS but DS with the other Cooper S models if it were to be legal.

Depending on your SCCA region I think it would be legal for the ALL4 to run in SCCA Rallycross since the SEC ruling applies to autocross events. Check with your SCCA rallycross chairman.

Any car/SUV/truck with height more than average track width is going to be excluded from SCCA autocross due to roll over risk and need to provide insurance for the event.

If the driver looses control of the car, risk of rollover can be very dangerous for the driver, car and anyone or thing nearby. SCCA sets limits on vehicles for events to minimize this risk.

In your area if your event chairman and safety steward allow you to run, it would be with the understanding that if they observed that your car was operating in an unsafe/rollover risk manner, the safety steward could pull the plug and ask you to stop.

However if you drove well, they would be watching only. Nobody wants an accident at their event with videos of a rollover all over the internet.

I can tell you that in our region we don't have an "anything goes" class, and we do not allow any car with rollover risk to participate. We follow the SEC rulings for eligibility as written and update accordingly. By doing this we are in complicance with the rules for SCCA insurance at our events.

 

DEFINITELY NOT TRUE. Many older previously classified cars are allowed in SCCA stock classes, despite not meeting the track/height parameter. By itself, this parameter is NOT a very good indication of rollover potential, since it has no CENTER OF MASS is included in the calculation. The no-longer-published SSF ratings were better. This rule needs revision.

<FYI, I have driven in 100's of autocross events over 45+ years and seen ONE rollover, a Honda Accord.>

The CMS All4 (weight 3200 lbs) has similar HP/weight ratio and characteristics to the Subaru Impreza in GS. It is WAY to heavy to be considered for DS. And most of the weight is distributed low in the chassis, like the Subaru.

Fortunately my non-SCCA club has its own insurance, although I don't plan to run in official timed competition events because of the classing situation.

 

Definitely true in my region. Of course, region officials will vary with upholding SCCA rules- being conservative and proactive is prudent, especially when insurance is involved. You don't want to be the Safety Steward who has to fill out the incident report of a rollover for any vehicle.

From the 2012 SCCA rule book-

Section 3.1 Eligible Vehicles (page 33)
"Unstable vehicles with a higher center of gravity and a narrow track, including SUVs, minivans, and 4WD pickups, must be excluded."

Rollover potential Guidelines

The SSC has reviewed the allowance of competing cars with higher roll centers and has prepared the following chart to be used as a guideline for assisting Regional members in determining whether a vehicle has a higher than average potential to roll over in Solo competition...

Table on page 34, Overall height -Average track width relationship for vehicles

Vehicles with a SSF less than 1.30 should not be permitted to compete in our Solo events due to their higher risk of roll over.

I agree with your arguments about the limits of using SSF as a sole criteria for assessing rollover risk. It would be best if the govt(or any agency) did a better and more timely assessment for all vehicles for safety reasons.

If the SCCA rule is so obviously outdated why do you think the SEC has allowed it to stand and has been consistent in excluding/delaying several taller cars from competing in Solo events? I think it boils down to risk management and being conservative for insurance purposes.

I have seen about a 100 autocross events and have never seen a rollover but I have seen many out of control incidents where there could be rollover risk. This risk can be reduced beginning with conservative course design which limits top speed to highway speeds and adequate runoff area in case of trouble. Once speeds top 60 mph and there is a rapid transition into a tight area there can be risk.

 

I'd be surprised to see them allow the All4 in the SCCA books. The Fiat 500 is excluded for the same reasons - height/tack ratio or whatever the calculation is. Yes these vehicles are far more stable than the SUVs of old (i.e., 90's) as they have various electronics for street stability - BUT - on the AutoX course, those safety nets are turned off. The SCCA and most regions are, or should be concerned with safety first. I've run with another non SCCA group, and did not appreciate the lower safety concerns. Won't run with them again.

That said, they 500 Abarth is allowed as it sits lower on the revised suspension. We may have to wait and see with the CMS JCW, should that sit lower it may make it into classification. For that matter, will the Paceman sit lower naturally and meet the regulations...

 

As far as SCCA goes -

Looking at this
Full Fastrack:
http://www.scca.com/assets/12-fastrack-sept.pdf
See page 18 under Street Touring. Abarth is not legal in STF only the base Fiat 500

Looking at the rules of STX- NOC, 4 seater, up to 2.0L forced induction. I think the Abarth would be OK in that.

Looking in the 2012 rulebook I see under CSP class page 188-
Fiat Abarth (all)- but I think they meant all except for the current Fiat Abarth-
see for all Fiat Abarth models-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abarth

To clarify, in the August 2012 fastrack
http://www.scca.com/assets/12-fastrack-aug.pdf
On page 19, 2012 Fiat Abarth is legal in DSP

So Fiat 500 base model legal in STF

Fiat Abarth legal in DSP and G stock, could run in STX

 

I guess I should have stipulated Stock class (thought that was the direction of this thread), but thanks for the clarification. Yes, obviously ST class which usually does a more extensive suspension alteration and lowering would have the car in a different stance, and would thus meet the requirements.

But as stock trim is concerned - NO to the base 500, Yes to the Abarth. NO to the Countryman S All4 - maybe to the JCW?

 

For the ALL4 we will have to wait and see if there is any new information about rollover safety that can be used to request classification for SCCA events. Once that happens then you can suggest a change as what happened to the Fiat 500, also excluded from being classed initially.

The base Fiat 500 can run in STF but it doesn't mean that owners will do the limits of wheel and suspension modifications that would allow for less rollover risk. I think most owners will just max out the tires for STF and see how it goes first.

I do know that at nationals this year a Fiat Abarth got up on two wheels in G Stock class. I'm sure officials took note of that.

 

So if I lowered my CMS All4 and the the ratio moved to >1, then I could run in an SCCA sanctioned event, just in an non-stock class(i.e.STX)? or would it still be at unacceptable becuase it does on meet the rating at stock? or would i still be dependant ot the local event leader to decide?

 

That is the case with vehicles like the first gen Scion xB, or it use to be anyway. Now if you aren't specifically listed in a class you aren't classed. Unless you went for something like XP or something.

 

Most SCCA regions will allow you to run if you have lowered your car and want to compete in a class that is otherwise appropriate.

You should check first with your SCCA region officials to see if that is OK.

Not being able to run in a stock class happens but it is not a barrier to participate.

Fiat 500 is a good example, it cannot run in H Stock but can run in Street Touring class in stock form. Go figure.

 

Has there been any changes for allowing the CM to compete? Or does anyone know how low one would need to go? I'd really like to get back into auto cross.

 

Countryman is still not eligible for any (stock) street class in SCCA nationwide.

You can lower it with any suspension mod and see if your region will accept it. Ride height must be changed to lower than OEM but the amount does not matter.

It is possible that your region will require measurement of the track vs height of your modified Countryman to check that the ratio is better than OEM which would reduce risk of rollover.

To increase track you can use wider wheels and tires, add wheel spacers.
To reduce overall height you can remove roof rack, drop the suspension, use tires that are less than OEM tire diameter.

If you have a Base Countryman 2WD then you can try for:

Street Touring FWD tires/wheels limited in width, treadwear 200 or more
F Street Prepared- any wheels and tires including race tires


Countryman S or JCW
Street Touring X tires/wheels limited in width, treadwear 200 or more
D Street Prepared- Countryman is excluded
Street Modified FWD if 2WD, allows for increased boost, rear seat delete
Street Modified if AWD, allows for increased boost, rear seat delete

Check with your event organizers to check eligibility.

 

Thanks! It would be nice if they'd at least allow the All4 in stock since it has an extra 700lbs way below the center of gravity!

Also just found this: http://www.miniusa.com/content/dam/m...rogram%202.pdf Seems that the Countryman here is eligible and looks to be a joint SCCA/MINI thing? I'll inquire with my local SCCA authority and see what the story is.

Since I'm in an All4, looks like it'll be SM. I'm currently running 225/50/17s which are about 3/4" wider than stock. NM springs (drop 1.6"), upgraded rear sway bar, and 20mm spacers are next. It should allow me to compete, but won't be anywhere near competitive.