SMF (Street Modified FWD) Kumho V710 225/50-15
#1
Kumho V710 225/50-15
I've got 15x8 rims and thinking that this tire size might actually work for me.
Been using the Hoosier A6 in 225/45-15 for the last year and the tires are getting heat cycled enough and at the end of their life. Still soft enough rubber for an event or two. I was using them for the wide rims and smaller tire diameter.
However there are many events that I seem to do better staying in first gear than to shift to second. So I am wondering why not go with a larger diameter tire like the 225/50-15 and back to Kumho V710 which I like better than Hoosier A6 anyway.
I can make more use of first gear and cover more ground with 225/50-15.
Anyone think it crazy to have 15x8 rims front and back but put the new V710s in 225/50-15 on the front and worn A6 in 225/45-15 on the rears?
The 15x8 are too wide for 205/50-15.
Been using the Hoosier A6 in 225/45-15 for the last year and the tires are getting heat cycled enough and at the end of their life. Still soft enough rubber for an event or two. I was using them for the wide rims and smaller tire diameter.
However there are many events that I seem to do better staying in first gear than to shift to second. So I am wondering why not go with a larger diameter tire like the 225/50-15 and back to Kumho V710 which I like better than Hoosier A6 anyway.
I can make more use of first gear and cover more ground with 225/50-15.
Anyone think it crazy to have 15x8 rims front and back but put the new V710s in 225/50-15 on the front and worn A6 in 225/45-15 on the rears?
The 15x8 are too wide for 205/50-15.
#2
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What kind of offset are you running? When I was researching my track tires people were saying that 225/50/15 might rub the fenders in hard cornering so I went with 225/45/15.
Different size front and rear tires could do some weird things to your handling. You might lose the advantage you were looking for trying to get used to what the rear of the car is doing.
Different size front and rear tires could do some weird things to your handling. You might lose the advantage you were looking for trying to get used to what the rear of the car is doing.
#3
I've got 15x8 rims and thinking that this tire size might actually work for me.
Been using the Hoosier A6 in 225/45-15 for the last year and the tires are getting heat cycled enough and at the end of their life. Still soft enough rubber for an event or two. I was using them for the wide rims and smaller tire diameter.
However there are many events that I seem to do better staying in first gear than to shift to second. So I am wondering why not go with a larger diameter tire like the 225/50-15 and back to Kumho V710 which I like better than Hoosier A6 anyway.
I can make more use of first gear and cover more ground with 225/50-15.
Anyone think it crazy to have 15x8 rims front and back but put the new V710s in 225/50-15 on the front and worn A6 in 225/45-15 on the rears?
The 15x8 are too wide for 205/50-15.
Been using the Hoosier A6 in 225/45-15 for the last year and the tires are getting heat cycled enough and at the end of their life. Still soft enough rubber for an event or two. I was using them for the wide rims and smaller tire diameter.
However there are many events that I seem to do better staying in first gear than to shift to second. So I am wondering why not go with a larger diameter tire like the 225/50-15 and back to Kumho V710 which I like better than Hoosier A6 anyway.
I can make more use of first gear and cover more ground with 225/50-15.
Anyone think it crazy to have 15x8 rims front and back but put the new V710s in 225/50-15 on the front and worn A6 in 225/45-15 on the rears?
The 15x8 are too wide for 205/50-15.
Actually, you need to send me at least 2 of those A6s, and I can send you some 205/50s, in V710s. I should have some 205s at home. Pm if you want.
How stiff is your car? I would think that the 225/50s will have no issues when it comes to clearance up front, but they might be tight in the back. I have run them front and rear (with stock suspension), but I had to be a little more particular about the offset in the rear, and I used 15X7s.
Oh yeah, I run 225/50 up front and 205/50 in the rear all the time. It helps rotation.
#4
staggered wheel sizes are another option.
225/50-15 in front and 205/50-15 in the rear both on 15x8 rims.
I have 949racing 6 UL which are +36mm offset.
Front seems to be OK with 225/45-15 while back does rub on the rear trailing arm on the rim edge so I run a 3mm spacer in the back only.
I'd expect 225/50-15 to not be a problem since tire diameter clearance is OK with my Coilovers and ride height (enough for 215/45-17 street tires front and rear with no rubbing).
205/50-15 front and rear on 15x8 rims would be an option for using either Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6 and saving some weight but tread width is less.
I wonder if that would wear the tires faster compared to using 225 wide tires of each type?
225/50-15 in front and 205/50-15 in the rear both on 15x8 rims.
I have 949racing 6 UL which are +36mm offset.
Front seems to be OK with 225/45-15 while back does rub on the rear trailing arm on the rim edge so I run a 3mm spacer in the back only.
I'd expect 225/50-15 to not be a problem since tire diameter clearance is OK with my Coilovers and ride height (enough for 215/45-17 street tires front and rear with no rubbing).
205/50-15 front and rear on 15x8 rims would be an option for using either Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6 and saving some weight but tread width is less.
I wonder if that would wear the tires faster compared to using 225 wide tires of each type?
#5
So my various options for the new season-
15x8 rims with +36 offset 3 to 5mm spacers in the rear.
205/50-15 tires front and rear either Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6
Benefit is less weight and still wide tread due to wide rim
225/45-15 Hoosier A6
High cost
225/50-15 Kumho V710
Slightly taller tire diameter at 23.7" so maybe less lower gearing than 225/45 or 205/50 size and better use of first gear which I tend to use more.
Weighs about 6 lbs more per tire than 205/50-15.
Does anyone think that Hoosier A6 lasts longer than Kumho V710?
15x8 rims with +36 offset 3 to 5mm spacers in the rear.
205/50-15 tires front and rear either Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6
Benefit is less weight and still wide tread due to wide rim
225/45-15 Hoosier A6
High cost
225/50-15 Kumho V710
Slightly taller tire diameter at 23.7" so maybe less lower gearing than 225/45 or 205/50 size and better use of first gear which I tend to use more.
Weighs about 6 lbs more per tire than 205/50-15.
Does anyone think that Hoosier A6 lasts longer than Kumho V710?
#6
So my various options for the new season-
15x8 rims with +36 offset 3 to 5mm spacers in the rear.
205/50-15 tires front and rear either Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6
Benefit is less weight and still wide tread due to wide rim
225/45-15 Hoosier A6
High cost
225/50-15 Kumho V710
Slightly taller tire diameter at 23.7" so maybe less lower gearing than 225/45 or 205/50 size and better use of first gear which I tend to use more.
Weighs about 6 lbs more per tire than 205/50-15.
Does anyone think that Hoosier A6 lasts longer than Kumho V710?
15x8 rims with +36 offset 3 to 5mm spacers in the rear.
205/50-15 tires front and rear either Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6
Benefit is less weight and still wide tread due to wide rim
225/45-15 Hoosier A6
High cost
225/50-15 Kumho V710
Slightly taller tire diameter at 23.7" so maybe less lower gearing than 225/45 or 205/50 size and better use of first gear which I tend to use more.
Weighs about 6 lbs more per tire than 205/50-15.
Does anyone think that Hoosier A6 lasts longer than Kumho V710?
I may be wrong, but I think that you will find that the 225 section width tire will be faster, either in the 225/50 V710/A6, or in the 225/45 A6. It all comes down to testing, but the taller 225/50s may not hurt your performance as much as you think. I would be shying away from the 205s, as I think you will overload them rather quickly.
That being said, I am likely to buy both Hoosiers and V710s this year to see what works. I think that the V710 will be coming in a 215/40R17 for this year. The 225/40 Hoosier is likely to be faster, but who knows.
#7
New to Mini's the following is based on friends with CSP Miata's
1 running 225's the other on 275's both A6's, & both had run 710's previously on their cars(not sure what size). Their thoughts were the difference between the improved grip of the A6 vs 710's would only be noticed/benefit an very experienced driver. That said I believe after last season the guy on 225's is switching back to 710's, and the 275 guy is staying with the A6's(only 275r15 out there).
I ran 285r18's in a 710 on all 4 corners, switched over to a 285 & 315 combo 710's at the end of the season on a 3600# 427hp Mustang and dual drove several events, and theres plenty of 'tread' left. Not sure about heat cycles left though, but I can say the 710's wear forever.
We're planning on trying the 225/45r15 to keep the gearing in our SM Cooper S, so i'll no more later...
If we don't get snowed out again!
Good luck guys and keep the info flowing
1 running 225's the other on 275's both A6's, & both had run 710's previously on their cars(not sure what size). Their thoughts were the difference between the improved grip of the A6 vs 710's would only be noticed/benefit an very experienced driver. That said I believe after last season the guy on 225's is switching back to 710's, and the 275 guy is staying with the A6's(only 275r15 out there).
I ran 285r18's in a 710 on all 4 corners, switched over to a 285 & 315 combo 710's at the end of the season on a 3600# 427hp Mustang and dual drove several events, and theres plenty of 'tread' left. Not sure about heat cycles left though, but I can say the 710's wear forever.
We're planning on trying the 225/45r15 to keep the gearing in our SM Cooper S, so i'll no more later...
If we don't get snowed out again!
Good luck guys and keep the info flowing
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#8
I did a test fit for my MINI.
15x8 rims +36mm offset
3mm spacer in the rears only
225/50-15 V710 tires
Fits fine and clears front and rears no problem as far as low speed testing with one person goes. Slightly taller tire fills the wheel wells nicely compared to the smaller tire diameter 225/45-15.
Will be running 225/50-15 on the fronts and 205/50-15 on the rears.
15x8 rims +36mm offset
3mm spacer in the rears only
225/50-15 V710 tires
Fits fine and clears front and rears no problem as far as low speed testing with one person goes. Slightly taller tire fills the wheel wells nicely compared to the smaller tire diameter 225/45-15.
Will be running 225/50-15 on the fronts and 205/50-15 on the rears.
#9
I did a test fit for my MINI.
15x8 rims +36mm offset
3mm spacer in the rears only
225/50-15 V710 tires
Fits fine and clears front and rears no problem as far as low speed testing with one person goes. Slightly taller tire fills the wheel wells nicely compared to the smaller tire diameter 225/45-15.
Will be running 225/50-15 on the fronts and 205/50-15 on the rears.
15x8 rims +36mm offset
3mm spacer in the rears only
225/50-15 V710 tires
Fits fine and clears front and rears no problem as far as low speed testing with one person goes. Slightly taller tire fills the wheel wells nicely compared to the smaller tire diameter 225/45-15.
Will be running 225/50-15 on the fronts and 205/50-15 on the rears.
pardon my being nosy, but the thought has crossed my mind more than once in the last few years...
#10
minihune, have you run differing widths before? what are your expectations? have you found a rear camber or rollbar stiffness change must come to? does it change your pressures much?
pardon my being nosy, but the thought has crossed my mind more than once in the last few years...
pardon my being nosy, but the thought has crossed my mind more than once in the last few years...
Rims will be same front and back at 15x8 but rear has 3mm spacers.
There are many adjustments that can be made to help with handling-
Rear anti roll bar- has two holes, currently on softest setting and will stay there for now.
Coilovers have 9 settings for dampering/rebound will be using softer in the front about 6 and stiffer in the rear about 4, can easily adjust either.
Air pressures- will chalk tires and check temperatures with pyrometer and adjust but for the 710 likely be using about 33 psi in front and 30 in the rear.
So 225/50-15 in front and 205/50-15 in the rear will give-
Probably about the same track front to rear by 1mm since tires are wider in front but spacers are in the back.
Taller tire is in the front by 0.8" total with more weight in the front and larger contact patch.
I expect-
Reduce Under-steer:
More weight in the front (heavier front tires by 4 lbs each)
Larger contact patch on front tires
Smaller contact patch on rear tires
Increase Under-steer:
Raised front end due to taller front tire diameter
I can adjust for more reduced understeer-
Soften front shock
Stiffen rear shock
Stiffern rear anti-roll bar
Increase front tire pressure
Lower rear tire pressure
Will have to try it out and see how it does.
#11
thanks for that detail - very much
I hope it works well for you, and look forward to hearing more as the season develops.
My search for balanced handling leaves me with equal tread widths, but -2.5 front camber and only -1.0 rear.
I go high on the rear tire pressures though, rather than low. Having tried both I have found that for me the lower rear pressures make the car a little sloppy in slaloms, and the higher pressures seem more predictable as a means of reducing grip. I seem to wind up around 37 front and 40-44 rear depending on course and temperature.
This setup allows oversteer on corner entry if the throttle is dropped a bit to shift weight off the back end of the car, but mid corner and exit are still understeering a bit. I've considered taking out another half degree of rear camber, but would prefer to increase front grip rather than decrease rear.
Again, good luck with the stagger - I bet it helps!
I hope it works well for you, and look forward to hearing more as the season develops.
My search for balanced handling leaves me with equal tread widths, but -2.5 front camber and only -1.0 rear.
I go high on the rear tire pressures though, rather than low. Having tried both I have found that for me the lower rear pressures make the car a little sloppy in slaloms, and the higher pressures seem more predictable as a means of reducing grip. I seem to wind up around 37 front and 40-44 rear depending on course and temperature.
This setup allows oversteer on corner entry if the throttle is dropped a bit to shift weight off the back end of the car, but mid corner and exit are still understeering a bit. I've considered taking out another half degree of rear camber, but would prefer to increase front grip rather than decrease rear.
Again, good luck with the stagger - I bet it helps!
#12
The staggered tires worked OK but nothing to write home about.
More practice is needed. This was really my first try.
First run, new tires- instant spin out and dead engine out of the first quick left turn. First time ever for me.
Next two runs, each time I was overdriving the longer turns and plowing with understeer. Still both runs 1.8 seconds behind the leaders overall.
Last run, finally a little better but only 0.3 seconds faster but good enough to win SM class by 1.1 seconds but still over 1.6 seconds behind the leaders.
Later with street tires I got a decent run about 1.45 seconds slower than with R compound tires.
Overall I was not really impressed with the handling or feel of the wider tires. I wasn't really able to make as good use of them but I did use first gear a bit better with no redlining of rpms during each run which I used to do with the smaller 205/50-15 tires.
I did a lot more sliding around with street tires at the end of the day vs the V710s but was still able to get close to my best time. My street tire time was good enough to beat 10 of 11 of my SM class competitors most running on R compounds.
More practice is needed. This was really my first try.
First run, new tires- instant spin out and dead engine out of the first quick left turn. First time ever for me.
Next two runs, each time I was overdriving the longer turns and plowing with understeer. Still both runs 1.8 seconds behind the leaders overall.
Last run, finally a little better but only 0.3 seconds faster but good enough to win SM class by 1.1 seconds but still over 1.6 seconds behind the leaders.
Later with street tires I got a decent run about 1.45 seconds slower than with R compound tires.
Overall I was not really impressed with the handling or feel of the wider tires. I wasn't really able to make as good use of them but I did use first gear a bit better with no redlining of rpms during each run which I used to do with the smaller 205/50-15 tires.
I did a lot more sliding around with street tires at the end of the day vs the V710s but was still able to get close to my best time. My street tire time was good enough to beat 10 of 11 of my SM class competitors most running on R compounds.
#14
Well in all fairness I was practicing at the end of the day and it took about 6 trys to get the good time. When we do the competition we all have only four runs to get it right.
Also the tires are new Potenza RE-01Rs in stock 205/45-17 and no one else are running those. Mostly they have worn Kumho Victoracers or V710s or Yokohama A048 tires.
It just shows that the equiptment is not usually the limiting factor, street tires or not any driver can get into the top three with a smooth enough run.
I find that if I practice on street tires which are much less forgiving it forces me to be smoother if I want to get within 1.5 to 2 seconds of my best times using R compounds. I never practice with R compounds since I want to make them last.
Also the tires are new Potenza RE-01Rs in stock 205/45-17 and no one else are running those. Mostly they have worn Kumho Victoracers or V710s or Yokohama A048 tires.
It just shows that the equiptment is not usually the limiting factor, street tires or not any driver can get into the top three with a smooth enough run.
I find that if I practice on street tires which are much less forgiving it forces me to be smoother if I want to get within 1.5 to 2 seconds of my best times using R compounds. I never practice with R compounds since I want to make them last.
#15
Just had an event and tried to use the 225/50-15 on the fronts for the second time.
Top speed about 50+ mph was too fast to run in first gear- just bogged down when hitting the rev limiter. Shift to second was OK but needed to downshift to keep revs up after one higher speed stretch. Tried to run it all in second gear but it was too slow and ended being beat by a FSP old school Toyota Corolla.
So, lowered gearing to favor the faster than usual course and stay in second gear with smaller 205/50-15 tires is an option.
Or run the 225/50-15 and be ready to use second then downshift after a tight segment.
Either way it's viable once speeds exceed 45 mph.
I'll likely bring enough tires so that I can see the course then make up my mind that morning.
Also I am going to soften my suspension settings in the rear from stiff to less stiff.
Top speed about 50+ mph was too fast to run in first gear- just bogged down when hitting the rev limiter. Shift to second was OK but needed to downshift to keep revs up after one higher speed stretch. Tried to run it all in second gear but it was too slow and ended being beat by a FSP old school Toyota Corolla.
So, lowered gearing to favor the faster than usual course and stay in second gear with smaller 205/50-15 tires is an option.
Or run the 225/50-15 and be ready to use second then downshift after a tight segment.
Either way it's viable once speeds exceed 45 mph.
I'll likely bring enough tires so that I can see the course then make up my mind that morning.
Also I am going to soften my suspension settings in the rear from stiff to less stiff.
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