Hello,

I am trying to do my first oil change on the MINI:

2004 MINI Cooper, Manual
1500 Miles on it.

I took the filter housing off and I was shocked to see a filter in there that doesn't really look like the one that I got from my MINI Dealership service center yesterday. The filter I got from the MINI dealership does look identical to the one in the "Oil Change - How-to" which i was following.

The filter that came with the car that was in the housing has rubber top and bottom instead of paper/foam type on the replacement. Also once the filter was removed there was still a black mesh blastic cylinder left inside the housing. It is held in place in the filter housing by a spring arangement of some sort. None of this is seen in the pictures or discussed in the how to.

So my question is, is this a 2004 change? What do I do about this? should I just slide the new filter on top of the existing plastic mesh housing or what?

Please someone respond as my car is sitting on the jacks and i have no idea how to proceed. Thanks!!

 

I'm not sure I can help as I've changed the oil in my 04 MCS only once but, it was no big deal. I can't remember the black mesh device you are referring to. I did get a filter from my dealer that was an exact match to the one I removed. I put some fresh oil on to the rubber portions of the new filter then WITHOUT the outer housing pushed it onto the engine location. Took it off, the did the same in the filter housing. That makes it easier to screw the housing back on. Make sure you lube the new O ring before installing on the housing, also a little on the threads.
With my left hand, pushed up while screwing the housing back on. Make sure you don't cross thread.. I was able to screw the housing almost all the way on before using the wrench. It will take 5 quarts.

 

Come to think of it, I think the black mesh is a spring that does stay attached inside the filter housing.

 

MAJOR PROBLEM!

I am very dissappointed right now. My buddy and I finished changing the oil, followed the instructions on the HOW-TO all the way through, started the car, waiting 1 minute, no Oil Light came on. WE LEFT THE BLACK PLASTIC MESH AND THE SPRING IN THE ASSEMBLY. (i wish i had a digital camera to show you, but no such luck)

I decided to take it for a ride in the neighborhood, about 3 minutes into the ride, .5 miles away from my house i looked in the rear view mirror and saw smoke. within 10 seconds, the time it took to stop the car and turn it off smoke was pouring into the car and around it. Oil was spilling in a long trail. I spent the last 30 minutes pushing the car up the hill back home. I am exhaused, nauxious, in pain and really pissed off. Could mini have sold me the wrong filter or are mini oil filters the same?

Someone please help. What should I do next? I will investigate the oil leak.

 

Just inspected the car. There are spray marks all over the Oil Filter area. It looks like oil sprayed out from the oil filter and down the engine compartment. As a matter of fact, so much oil spilled so fast that there nothing left in the engine. NOTHING!!! I tried the dip stick 5 times and it came up dry.

This is so bad.

Someone please comment. HOw could that much oil spill out of ther so fast? It was tightened to regulation (25Nm) using a torque wrench.

 

Vano,

Firstly, you could reassemble it as it was taken off the car with the old filter and parts if you still have them if you're not sure that you have the correct filter. Advice that's coming a little too late, I'm afraid.

If you forgot the o-ring that would explain the oil spray.

I remember many months ago about reading that at some point there was a change in the type of oil filter for the cooper, but I don't recall the details. A search on 'oil', 'filter' and 'spring' ought to do the trick.

Certainly don't drive the car, or do anything else to it, until you have a definitive answer.

Bummer about the anxiety you're going through. Let's hope that you stopped it soon enough to avoid damage.

--J

 

you should be fine about damage. you still had enough oil in the motor for as for as you went. even tho you could not read oil on the dip sitck, does not mean that there is no oil in the engine. it only read the top of the oil. i think you might have the wrong filter, but not sure if they changed in 04, but i bet they have not. once you get the right filter you should be fine with the correct oil level. if it looks like the spry is around the oil filter cap, make sure you put the new o-ring on and that it was tight. hope that helps. but you should be o.k. in the end. breath deep and have a beer. things will be o.k. on monday. good luck

 

There are some posts over on mini2.com on the same subject. You're not the first one to run into this.

--J

 

PROBLEM FIXED!!!!

Thank God. I am so releaved!

It was my mistake all along. The O-Ring was on, but not on the right perch. If you look closely at the metal housing that the filter sits in, right after the thread, there are 3 sections that look like perches where the o-ring can go. You have to put the o-ring on the second 'perch'. I put it on the first once, the furthest one away from the thread. Because of this the o-ring was not forming the required seal and oil was sraying out all over the place.

The pictures in the How-To show the o-ring in the right spot, the second notch/perch, but if one doesn't pay very close attention (which was the case with me cause i was too busy freaking about the fact that the filter looked different) you could slide the o-ring one perch too far and that will result in what happened to me: oil won't leak while still cool, then as you drive off and temps go up you will see smoke trailing behind you, when you slam your breaks and cut the engine as quick as possible you will have to jump out of the car because it will be filled with synthetic oil burning smoke. I had to step away from the car for a few minutes there was so much smoke, i couldn't breathe.

I went back to look at the trail of oil, it started leaking about .3 miles before i pulled over and cut the engine. The place where i turned the engine off has a big puddle (1 liter or so) of oil, which means there was still some oil in the car when i turned it off. Pushing the car back was crazy, almost all of it was a gentle up hill.

This morning my legs are sore, im tires, and im caughing up burnt oil, but the car is running well and that makes me happy!!!!!

SSSSSOOOOO HAPPPPYYYY.

ONE MORE QUESTION: CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN WHY THE FILTER THAT CAME WITH THE CAR LOOKS DIFFERENT FROM THE REPLACEMENT ONE THAT MINI SOLD ME???? IS IT A SPECIAL BREAKIN FILTER???

 

by the way,

Through-out all this the Oil Light didn't come on once. even with a .3 mile thick trail of oil behind me.

I still wish i had a digital camera to help illustrate the differences between the oil filters.

 

Does anyone know at what pressure the oil light comes on? I would assume that since you did not lose enough oil to turn on the light, you should be fine. I've driven vehicles home on 2/3 of their normal oil capacity without issue, oil pressure was a little low(about 37psi at speed, versus 45psi at speed normally), but not enough to do any damage.

 

I bought a filter and oil at the dealer when I picked up my MINI but I'm wondering if I should try to change it. WHY did MINI have to make a simple thing like replacing an oil filter so full of ways to screw up? Haven't they seen a typical ordinary old spin-on oil filter?


R.E.

 

Go ahead and change it your self. Go to the How To Section for instructions. Its easier if you have a set of ramps. If not use a couple of short lenghts of 2x4 or 2x6 boards to drive the front wheels up onto. Makes it easier to get drain pan under.

 

I have been thinking about doing the oil change between my 10k scheduled maint...In another thread I saw a oil pump that sucks the oil out of the filler cap...primarily used in boats, etc. but they say it gets more oil out than by drain pan up on ramps or inclined...

any truth to this? sounds like a good idea...

 

Vano,

I'm glad your cars ok.

Live and learn.

 

>>Does anyone know at what pressure the oil light comes on?

Twenties year ago, domestic cars would only turn the oil light on when pressure dipped to 9psi. Obviously way to low. So earning the name, idiot light. Does anyone now if modern cars are any better ?

 

resmini,

Go ahead and change the oil yourself. It is easy if you follow the How-To (though not everything is exactly perfect in the How-To and I'll get into that in a minute). There are two things you could really screw up, one is overtightening the drain plug and stripping the threat (will cost you $$) so you have to be sure to either do it right by feel or just be smart and use a torque wrench.

The other thing that can go wrong is the ambiguous placement of the new o-ring. This is where I screwed up big time!!! The pictures in the How-To clearly show which notch the o-ring has to be in, yet there is no caution to verify that its on the "second" notch, not the first and not the third.

Other than that, its really easy. I used ramps - much easier. Now that I know, I will never pay MINI 75 bux to change my oil.

You are right about the pain in the butt factor of the oil filter, its retarded! I think that BMW does weirdo complicated stuff like this to make it harder for the owner to service their own car - so that they can make even more money, but thats just me.

Now about the How-To:
1. There is no mention of the fact that once you removie the oil filter from the engine you have to use a lot of force to pull the used filter out of the metal housing. I am not a strong guy so it took me some serious pulling to get the slippery filter out of there. Whats worse is that applying that much pulling force on anything makes you feel like you are about to break something, but that didn't happen.

2. There is no mention/explanation as to why the original oil filter you will find upon removal of the filter housing is DIFFERENT from the MINI replacement one that you got from the dealer. I still don't have the answer to this one. But they are without a doubt different. (particularly, the seal)

3. There is no mention in the How-To of the a small cylindrical plastic mesh that goes inside the filter donut. There aren't even any pictures of this. In the how-to pictures, once the old fiter is removed, the filter housing looks completely empty. In my case, there was that thin plastic mesh cylinder that the new filter has to go on. This plastic mesh assembly is held in place by a spring/metal mechanism at the bottom of the housing that can be disassembled if you pull on the platic piece hard enough.

4. There is no mention of the fact that putting the new filter in into the housing is not just slide in and you are done. In fact you have to force the filter over the plastic mesh that is already there. It needs to snap in place right right way.

All this is assuming that the plastic mesh cylinder is supposed to stay in the housing... but according to the How-To pictures, the housing is completely empty.

I wish i had a digital camera as I was doing this so that I could have documented my struggles. But hey, its all over now and I'm almost at ease that all is well with the car.

 

My remaining concern now is:

How much damage was done to the engine?

I keep driving down the same road where the oil spill happened and 3 days after the ordeal the horrible trail of oil is more pronounced than before. It isn't a thin trickle or anything, its a FOOT WIDE continuous stain of oil that goes on for about 0.3 miles.

Once we pushed the car back, I refilled the car with Oil and started it up again to see where the oil spill was coming from, my buddy was looking inside the eingine bay and had me cut the engine withing a few seconds - the oil was gushing out at a very high pressure against the firewall. The stream according to my buddy was about as thick as his thumb finger.

So incorrect placement of the o-ring = almost instantaneous loss of oil. You are practically guaranteed that the engine will be deprived of all oil within a mile or two. Mine took less than a mile.

What amazes me is that we turned the car on in the garage and I ran it for about 2 minutes without any spills. But I guess once I gave it some gas and the pressures build the o-ring went.

 

I know that you've already gone out at length about this, but there are still two things that I'm confused about:

1) What exactly is this plastic mesh thing. Can you describe it in more detail? What is it's shape? Is it perfectly fitted to fill the inside of the filter housing, or does it only cover a portion of it?

2) What is the difference between the two filters? Do they both have the O-shaped black rubber part on the end?

3) Why don't you call your dealer and ask them if there's been a change to the filter design?

Thanks!

 

I believe that MOSS (and probably other places) sell a kit that coverts the archaic canister filter used on the MINI to a more modern spin-on type. Last I checked, this wasn't available for the S, just the Cooper. If I were into changing my own oil, I'd seriously investigate one of these. The last canister filter I wanted to/had to deal with was on my 1972 3.0 BMW...and even with all of the room under the hood there (we're talking FEET in some places) it was still a total mess changing the oil, and getting the O ring in the right place and torquing the center bolt on the canister was always tricky. I just know I'll make a mess of it in the MINI.

Now, there's the question of WHY you were changing your oil at 1500 miles...but to each their own I suppose.

Glad your car is fine!

 

vano, early build 2002 Minis had a spring mechanism of some sort in them, which complicated oil changes for people following directions based on more recent cars. My car was a September 2002 build (2003 model year), and I have no such spring. I'm very surprised to hear of it reappearing on a new car, if it is indeed the same spring. I hate to ask, but are you absolutely sure that your dealer didn't dress up a 2002 as a 2004? Some of the MINI dealers are actually scummy enough to try this.

Also, just a suggestion - if you modify the thread title to something more relevant, like "oil filter question", you might get more of a response. Just click on the pen and paper symbol at the bottom left of your first post.

 

How do I modify the Name of the Post??

THanks.

 

>>1) What exactly is this plastic mesh thing. Can you describe it in more detail? What is it's shape? Is it perfectly fitted to fill the inside of the filter housing, or does it only cover a portion of it?

I hope this helps:
[img]null[/img]
>>
>>2) What is the difference between the two filters? Do they both have the O-shaped black rubber part on the end?
The difference in the oil filters is not the dimensions. The fillament or whatever it is called does seem different but it is hard to judge that since one is used and the other is brand new. One difference that is without a doubt there is the seal on the side of the filter that sticks out of the housing and will be attaching to the engine. While the seal on the new filter is like the one you see in dozens of pictures available on the net (it is a pretty thin layer of rubber with a few circular grooves when viewed from above) the the seal on the original filter that came with the car is:
1. Thicker rubber
2. Extends all the way into the filter donut hole (so it covers more surface area of the filter)
3. Has no visible circular grooves
>>
>>3) Why don't you call your dealer and ask them if there's been a change to the filter design?
I haven't called my dealer because:
1. They aren't too responsive and explaining this over the phone can be tough.
2. I would like to investigate as much as possible through the use of this forum and its vast knowledge and experience what has happened and if I have the right filter.
3. Another point has been brought up that I may have an older car. This scares me. Could Morristown MINI screw me like this?
So until I have done some more investigation I am not taking this issue up with the dealer, I would like to be armed with all the knowledge I can before even asking them questions.

 

>>vano, early build 2002 Minis had a spring mechanism of some sort in them, which complicated oil changes for people following directions based on more recent cars. My car was a September 2002 build (2003 model year), and I have no such spring. I'm very surprised to hear of it reappearing on a new car, if it is indeed the same spring. I hate to ask, but are you absolutely sure that your dealer didn't dress up a 2002 as a 2004? Some of the MINI dealers are actually scummy enough to try this.

WOW the question you bring up is both interesting and scary. How can I determine if the car is a 2004 or not? I ordered it in September of 2003 and they made me wait 2 months (end of november) to get the car. When they got it I inspected it right away and it seemed like fresh out of the factory, with stickers and packaging in it. The car is configured exactly the way I ordered it (all black/dark interior) SS+, DSC and Sport Seats. It also has the digital speed readout in the tach, something that only became available in 2004 (of course its probably just a software upgrade). So knowing all this do you think that i could somehow have a 2002 frame and engine with 2004 fixins?

Can anyone comment on OIL FILTER DIFFERENCES?

 

1) Look at the sticker inside your driver's side door panel. It tells the build date XX/XX (month/year).

2) The picture is great, but now I'm even more lost. Are you saying that there is a cylinder made out of plastic mesh, that's the entire length of the filter (or actually longer) that is permanently attached to the filter canister, and sticks all the way through the filter and then out of the filter? That's what it looks like to me in your drawing. Does it stick back through the filter and out of the flat grooved O-thing that's on the filter?

Curiouser and curiouser... :???: