Results of the 2007 Season
 

Since I have moved up to SM class this year, it seems only fitting that I start a new post for the results of the 2007 season.

So…let hash out the game plan to take it to the WRX’s and M3’s this year. I will be in about 5-6 events this year trying to sort out the car and improve my driving. Please share your experiences, comments and results for 2007. Communicating information regarding setup, tires and engine modifications among the NAM community may be the only way we as Mini Racers will be competitive in the SM class.

Thanks and good luck this season :thumbsup:


DJDport66

Thanks for starting up the 2007 thread. Our first event isn't until the last weekend of February, so no results just yet.

I'm hoping to have my spring situation sorted out by then. Oh, and a new set of tires might be awfuly useful. I don't think worn out snows will be the hot ticket for most events. :wink:

I'm struggling with what sets of tires I want to use this year too. If I was going to be making many National Tour or Divisional events it would be an easy choice (225/45-15 Hoosiers), but for the couple of regions where I will spend most of my autocrossing time that's more than I need to win. Maybe some new drivers and cars will show up this season and change the balance of power in SM in Indiana.:thumbsup:

Scott
90SM

MINIs with pulley upgrades in SM class will have enough power- and usually you'll have cold air intake and cat back exhaust upgrades.

Suspension needs to be tuned and aggressive autocross alignment is required. Front adjustable camber plates with -2 degrees camber and rear lower adjustable control arms set to about -1 to 1.2 degrees camber.
You pick the front toe from 1/16" out ot 1/8" out and rear toe from 1/16" in to zero toe.

Rims and tires are crucial as your competition will all be riding on super wide tires compare to you. 205/50-15 is basic and will fit 15x7 rims but 225/45-15 is better but more limited in tire selection (Hoosier A6 and Avon Tech Ra). Kumho V710 is good but only in 205/50-15 and 225/50-15 (taller).

Alternatively you can also run on 16x7" rims or wider or even 17x7" light rims. Tire selection is still OK with 16" but not as good in 17" that will fit without rubbing.

No matter what, you have to still drive and changing parts and tuning your suspension each event can make it tough to learn how to drive given your adjustments in hardware.

In addition you must drink alot of water both before and during race day and get enough rest the night before to be sharp and fresh for driving. Eat something light and dress comfortably.

I've found it helpful to participate in:
Track setup crew
Being a certified Solo Safety Steward

Don't forget to walk the course many times over and hopefully with experienced drivers. No one approach is guaranteed to do well as there can be many ways to do well for a given car or driver. Don't pass up the chance to drive in fun runs to improve your skill. Don't repeat the same mistakes, try to learn and drive that much better or smoother next run.

If you never hit any cones then you can go out more aggressively and tip a few for good measure.

Always realize that there is a finite number of runs in your competition tires and that will vary with your use of the tires, how they are stored and cared for, and the age of the rubber (old means harder and less performance).

Good luck to all with your 2007 Solo Season.:thumbsup:

Hey Scott I ran the Indy region events last year in a blue DSP 318ti. I don't know if you remember it that car or not, but I remember your BRG terror. How fast the Mini's were blew me away with the supercharger whine, sweet exhaust note, and just being plain stuck to the course. I had wanted to get one for a long time, but the autocrosses just pushed me over the edge. Well now I got a Mini S and will probably be in GS or STX by the time next season starts up, but I will end up in SM eventually. Can't wait until the season starts up again!:nod:

EDIT:

This is the car if it rings a bell

http://www.318ti.org/gallery/data/55...271617_JPG.jpg

My season here doesn't start until mid March.
I can't wait. Last season I finally hit my stride @ the 4th event... something just clicked and I could whomp on the 400HP guys :thumbsup:
There is one fellow in a M3 that is always 1 sec ahead of me, so I'm gonna work real hard to catch him.

I was using Avon Tech R's which I really like, but what do I know... it was my first season on the sticky tires. They've still got some life in 'em and I'm gonna use those for the first few events then switch to some Hoosiers... I'm anxious to feel the difference.

All of what minihune said was spot on. Especially with the set-up day help. Get involved. The people that always set these things up really appreciate new faces to help with the work load and it is alot of work.
The only thing I would add to his advice is to Look ahead... drive where you want to go... not so much where you are.
Good luck and have fun!
Keith

Street vs R compound
 

Hi Audioman! I didn't realize you’re in my backyard. I will be at VIR with THSCC for time trials in February. Quick question; in transitioning from street rubber to the Avon tires, how big was the difference? Observations?


The "old" wise guys in our club really discourage R compound tires until you had 10-12 race events. I have been running 17” Kumho ECSTA SPT's for two years doing mostly HPDE and driving schools. I have been pretty happy with their performance.

There is definitely a difference between R compound tires and street tires.
The more skill you have the more you can use the R compound tires to your advantage.

Considering the cost of R compounds and that they may not last as long it can make sense to not jump in to competition tires too soon. I think it depends on the skill level of the driver and which R compound tire you want to start with.

Avon Tech Ra, Kumho Victoracers, Kumho ecsta V700, and Toyo Ra1 are good places to start. Hoosier A6 is expensive about $200 each and are likely to wear faster, Kumho V710 wear a little longer and cost a little less than hoosiers but won't last too long unless you can drive well.

Drivers with more skill will use their tires better and wear them less. This can be really true on the track or in lapping sessions. Your alignment (lack of enough negative camber) can make a huge difference.

Anyone in SM class that is not running on R compound tires is going to be at a disadvantage so build up your skill level, be a good student, definitely look far ahead when driving and watch the more experienced drivers before it is your turn to drive.

Looks like I have this sunday and one more date for this season then a run off event then April 8 starts the 2007-2008 season.

..."Drivers with more skill will use their tires better and wear them less. This can be really true on the track or in lapping sessions. Your alignment (lack of enough negative camber) can make a huge difference.

Anyone in SM class that is not running on R compound tires is going to be at a disadvantage so build up your skill level, be a good student, definitely look far ahead when driving and watch the more experienced drivers before it is your turn to drive."

Great advise, thank you! I have seen folk at the track trash R compound tire "drifting" instead of driving through the corners.

I have a problem with dialing my front camber, and I was wondering if anyone else has this problem; I have ’02 MCS with Bilstein Shocks, H&R Springs and Helix camber plates. The best we’ve been able to get is -1.5 degrees before the springs hit the inside of the shock towers. I have been told the only way to get to -2 is with coil over shocks. Thoughts?:confused:

I'll be there as well... though in a White e30 ITS car.:thumbsup:

I was given the same discouragement as you. And they are right:)

Going to the R compounds was a huge difference, but they did take some time to get used to. The big thing for me was that had no warning as to when they'd let go. It was Grip, Grip, Grip... Whoa!! No grip! My street tires (KDW -2's) would sing, then scream before they let go.
When I first put them on, I did tend to overdrive them (too much confidence) and be too agressive... then I finally learned some finesse.
And I can get o the gas sooner and faster, with less fear of spinning them, though they will break loose at will.. there's that finesse again.

Great feedback. Thanks. I will look for you in February. I am the screeming Red MCS #66:lol: Have a great weekend.

I've got Stock shocks, H-sport springs and IE adjustable camber plates and IIRC I was able to get a little of -2, I wanna say almost -2.5 but I can't find my paper work for the chasis shop.

Oh, djdport66, check this out if ou are interested
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...=1#post1339771

Should be billed as a maintenence day as well. It's @ a buddy's in Apex, a fellow NAM'er who'll also be @ VIR with us in a YLW/BLK MCS.

Yes, your suspension upgrades can limit your front negative camber somewhat. It all depends on clearance and whether right or left is tight for you.

With Bilstein PSS9 coilovers I have -2.2 degrees in the front with room to spare and could go more if I wanted to. I have adjustable Helix camber plates on a 2003 MCS.

You have to try to get what (negative camber) you can or change to coilovers. Even with coilovers your actual limits may vary with model year or with which set of coilovers you choose.

AlaskaBlue,

Yep, I remember the car. It always looked nice. I'm glad to hear that you'll be joining the MINI crowd and eventually SM. I'm horrible with names, so please hunt me down at an event and reintroduce yourself!

The local season starts pretty soon. The first CSCC event is the last Sunday in February, and then again on the last Sunday in March. It's a little further than Indy, but maybe you could make it down to Columbus to get the season going a little sooner and start getting used to your new car.

Let me know if I can help in any way.

Scott
90SM

Thanks for the offer. I will definately make the trip down to Columbus in February. See you there.

I've also decided to jump into the exciting world of S&M.. Err, SM. I dunno.

Right now it's just to calm my conscience (non-stx legal CAI and shoe's engine damper) but sometime this summer I'll be doing the ubiquitous pulley. Last season was my first year with autocross, and it was a blast. But like many others the MINI is my daily driver and I'm not particularly looking to be competitive and win trophies (if I was, woulda stuck with GS!). Rather just improve my driving, have some fun and beat some friends. SM seems perfect. :razz:

(The season starts late-April around here, and I might run my bald runflats for 1-2 more events before replacing with some decent summer performance.. r-compounds next year(?))

Welcome RedSkunk! Let us know how you do this year. Here in the mostly sunny Southeast (albeit snowing here today) We start in February. Good luck and burn thoes runflats quickly...you'll like normal rubber on your Cooper. :nod:[IMG]file://///Berlin/public/DAD%20CAD%20Library/buttrock.gif[/IMG]

DJDport66

[quote=RedSkunk;1348836]I've also decided to jump into the exciting world of S&M.. Err, SM. I dunno.

Right now it's just to calm my conscience (non-stx legal CAI and shoe's engine damper) but sometime this summer I'll be doing the ubiquitous pulley. Last season was my first year with autocross, and it was a blast. But like many others the MINI is my daily driver and I'm not particularly looking to be competitive and win trophies (if I was, woulda stuck with GS!). Rather just improve my driving, have some fun and beat some friends. SM seems perfect. :razz:
quote]

Welcome Redskunk,

Your goals-
"improve my driving, have some fun and beat some friends"
Can be done in any Autocross class. I don't think MINI drivers in Stock classes have any less fun. They exhibit equal or better skill and probably make better use of their limited legal mods than many of us in SM class.
It's pretty tough to beat a stock MC or MCS that is shod with R compound tires and driven well. If you want to beat up your competitors stock classes are the place to start and to stay.

Driving competitively in SM class will "require":
Alot "more" upgrades approaching the limits of legality within the class.
Considerable driving skill if you like to upgrade stuff
R compound tires that are relatively new/ not past their prime
Alot of help from your competition to not improve as much as you can.


As for tires, change to better tires as soon as you can. You will be hard pressed to keep up with worn runflats. For autocross of any class traction is key. One of our SM MINIs tried to run in Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 (good tread left) and could not keep up, he didn't use worn Avon Tech Ra even when mounted on smaller stock rims- the difference was huge.

Have fun- that's key.:razz: :lol: :thumbsup:

Time Trials at VIR
 

2/10-11/2007
THSCC/ HPDE/ TT at Virginia International Raceway (VIR)
Cold, 22* degrees F.:eek:
Sunny, Mid-day track temp. 44* F.

Ok. So with the first Time Trial event under my belt, I came away feeling rather overwhelmed. The Kumho SPT tires had a hard time warming up on account of the frigid temperatures and faded real fast once they got there... Any advice on a cheap set of 17” R-compound tires is welcome. The Stoptech brakes were fine and I only had moderate pad ware. But for some reason I burned up a tank of gas on the first day and only half a tank on the second day with much better times?:confused: Only engine issue was fluid leaks out of the expansion tank. (I upgraded to the Forge aluminum unit last year).

I was able to run within seconds of the SM2 Miatas but that was about it…2:34 at VIR isn’t much to write home about but I improved from a 2:47 qualifying time. The day was dominated by horsepower; 911’s, Corvettes and M3’s. All in all a good secession albeit not as fast as I would have liked.:sad: It was my first time trial event. While I had a spin in practice, I kept the car on the track and in one piece. Not a bad way to waste a weekend!:thumbsup:

Setup: -2* camber front, -1* camber rear. H&R/ sport springs, upgraded sway bars F&R, Bilstein shock absorbers.

Tires: Kumho SPT 205/45/17 - 38 psi front, 35 psi rear.

Falken RT-615's for SM.
 

[quote=minihune;1339165]There is definitely a difference between R compound tires and street tires.
The more skill you have the more you can use the R compound tires to your advantage.

Considering the cost of R compounds and that they may not last as long it can make sense to not jump in to competition tires too soon. I think it depends on the skill level of the driver and which R compound tire you want to start with.

Avon Tech Ra, Kumho Victoracers, Kumho ecsta V700, and Toyo Ra1 are good places to start. Hoosier A6 is expensive about $200 each and are likely to wear faster, Kumho V710 wear a little longer and cost a little less than hoosiers but won't last too long unless you can drive well.

minihune, is there anyone in your district using the 615's in SM class with any sucess? I have talked with several Mini drivers who like them.

DJDport66

[quote=djdport66;1372808
minihune, is there anyone in your district using the 615's in SM class with any sucess? I have talked with several Mini drivers who like them.

DJDport66[/quote]

Falken Azenis St615 are good street tires (Max performance) that will work for autocross or some track. They really are the tire of choice (along with Hankook Ventus Rs2 Z212) in Street touring classes (STS, STU, STX). Other good choice would be Kumho MX.

For those in stock classes, Street performance, and Street Mod classes most of us will go directly to R compound tires of various types.

In my area for SM class the top choice is Kumho V710 probably due to the cost and available tire sizes. Some will use Kumho victoracers due to large tires needed. Not many will use any of the Hoosiers. I'll be trying out the Hoosier A6 which I think will wear better and longer than the V710 did.

__________________________________________________ _______________

I am running a StopTech brake kit and 17" wheels. That leaves me with 205-215/40/17 as a tire size. The R6 Hoosiers come in a 205/40/17 while Kumho doesn't makes anything other than street tires in this size? I was looking at the Falken RT615's or Hankook Ventus Rs2 as an intermediate step to full blown R compound tires. Thoughts?

DJD

Normally for autocross the StopTech brake kit isn't necessary but for track use it is better than stock brakes. Since you have larger brakes you are very limited with rim options, mostly 17" or larger but for the MINI there are few good 17" or larger tires that will fit the wheel wells.

225/45-17 is the most common size but is a bit too large at 25" outer tire diameter for lowered MINIs. With coilovers you may adjust ride height to make it fit but you will raise your center of gravity compared to running with small 22.8" 15" tires like most of us use.

Even with your 17" rims I do not like street tires for SM class even with the relatively versatile and moderately priced Falkens or Hankooks.

But you can drive to the autocross and race on those street tires which is a plus. No changing of tires.

So if you don't mind packing up race wheels in your MINI (which I do everytime along with a racing jack and tools) then you can drive to the event on any spare set for street use or let it double as a race rain tire then...

Consider the Hoosier A6 in either
225/40-17 $219 each fits rims 7.5-9" 20 pounds 23.9" outer tire diameter
225/45-17 $219 each fits rims 8-9" 21 pounds 24.5" outer tire diameter

Both will fit and offer considerable benefit over any street tire. I'd choose the 225/40-17 due to smaller outer diameter and lighter weight. Give Alex@tirerack.com a call or email and ask about that tire.

205/40-17 only is for Hoosier R6 which is a track tire. A6 is for autocross.

Great advice, thank you.

DJD

minihune,

A6s lasting longer than V710s - is that your theory, or has this been observed by others in the autox community? I noticed that many had switched from the V710 to the A6 at last year's tire rack nationals. Is that because of performance only, or better wear as well?

People say that V710s are more accommodating of cars with little negative camber, than the Hoosiers are. I am running about 2.3 degrees of negative camber up front... with that much camber, do you think the A6 will close the wear gap or even outlast the V710? Thanks!

I would think the new Hoosier 245/40/15 would be THE tire for SM.

Just my $0.2. :)