>>>>None of those mentioned- Miatas, MR2s, RX8- will outperform the S if all are stock
>>
>>
>>I think it depends on what you mean by "perform". Miatas, MR2, and RX8s are all faster autocross cars than a Mini S, by a lot - given good drivers. That's what I think of when I think "performance", but not everyone is an autocrosser.
>>
>>Sure the S will beat the Miata or MR2 in a drag race, but who cares. The RX8 is really fast in a straight line, too. I think it'd give an S a run for the money.
>>
Good point- on a strictly autocross basis, data doesn't lie, but the question is: are all these cars in the same class where autocrossing is concerned, and what does the data really say? How about a skilled driver in an S? Is the S being slower based on your experience, or are all S drivers at a disadvantage? Any MCS autocrossers care to comment??

I am not an autocross expert but one thing I've seen is that different track configurations will yield different times/results, sometimes favoring certain types of cars.

Where did you get that quote?
I agree the MCS will get smoked by those cars. If Brian Garfield, or Mark Chiles chime in, I think they would say they would run faster times in a CStock Miata than they could in an MCS.

The quote is from me.

No, the Cooper S is not in the same class as any of those cars (stock at least). The Miata and MR2 are in C-Stock, and the RX8 is in B-Stock. The Cooper S is in G-Stock. So they are not in the same class. Generally speaking, C-Stock and B-Stock run faster times than G-Stock given equal prep/drivers and typical autocross conditions.

BTW, I never meant that the Cooper S was a slow autocrosser, only that it wasn't as fast as some of the other cars you can get for the same $$$. Obvisously the Mini has merits that the other don't, such as a non-trivial cargo capacity and some measure of foul weather compatibility.

edit - most people don't beleive how much driver skill really means in autocross until they see it. I'm just an average autocrosser, so if you put someone like Brian Garfield or Mark Chiles in the Cooper S and gave me a Miata, or heck, a Corvette Z06, I'd be hard pressed to match their time. But put an equal driver in the Miata, and they'd be faster than a Cooper S about 9 out of 10 times. Or maybe 10 out of 10.

_________________
Roger B - slow but happy autocrosser
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'04 Cooper (HS)

Right now, all stock, yes, the MINI S is the slowest of that bunch. However, come January 2005, when the optional LSD is available, the S will be MUCH more competitive with the above-mentioned cars. It will also move to C or D stock (most likely D stock) when that happens.

to be honest, most results have shown that the base cooper is almost as fast an autocross car as is the S, when stock. The S has trouble getting that power down. the LSD will fix that problem.

Stock MC is H-stock (SCCA)
Stock MCS is G-stock (SCCA)
In both cases the MINI can be competitive esp if you do legal upgrades like:
lighter rims (not the heaviest rims that are stock like the 17" S-lytes for the MCS and the 8 spoke 15" or even 5 spoke 15" since the holies are 12 pounds per rim)
Lighter sticky non runflat DOT tires like Kumho victoracer V700 or Kumho V700 or Falken Azenis Sport.
Drop in foam, K&N or Green filter.
Not order extra heavy items like audio upgrades, sunroof, xenon lights, trip computer, auto AC, rally lights, etc.
For the MC- order the sports suspension plus option from the factory

And of course the biggest difference is driver skill. This absolutely counts the most and makes a huge difference in times run. The best driver in any decent car is going to clobber your best times in your MINI by alot. Improve your skill is the name of the game. However some cars are easier to drive for those with less skill and the MINI is quite a good car for that. Excellent handling but it will still vary a little with driving style.

Once you start modding a MCS you get into classes which make the MINI less and less competitive even with a good driver.

Actually, I think STX is a pretty good place for an S right now.

Is the consensus that a G stock car has a better chance against top competition than an STX car?

Factory LSD will make the most expensive upgrade a lot cheaper. It should have many more MCS in STX, giving MINI 3 nationaly competetive classes, and maybe a fourth (HS, GS, STX maybe DS)
Chris

>>Is the consensus that a G stock car has a better chance against top competition than an STX car?


I think the Cooper S has stiff competition in either class, but can still be a "runner" even nationally.

The Cooper seems to have things a little bit easier in HS than the S does in either of those classes.

I like to flatter myself that I am a decent driver, and pretty much live in the top 10 PAX for the Central Florida Region events. A properly setup MCS is fairly competitive in STX, and a good contender in GS with slightly less prep. Though if you want to 0wnZ a class, get a regular MC and run it in HS.

Regardless, I have had an '02 Miata with sport suspension package which I ran in CS, I have also had an Evo 8 I won the regional ESP championship in, and I prefer the MCS for grin factor, autocross competition, and daily life. I routinely turn better times than the AS and BS boys locally, and several of them compete in national events (didn't say they won, just that they were there and tried). So blanket statements of "better autocross cars" really really really depend upon driver and setup, not stereotypical stats.

Sheesh... I think I forgot where the heck I was going with this post about halfway through... oh well, autocross, enjoy, don't sweat your position in the pecking order.

Bottom Line
RESULTS AT THE 2003 TIRE RACK AUTO CROSS NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS

H Stock: G Stock STX
1st MC Celica GT WRX Wagon
2nd MC CRX MCS
3rd MC Celica GT WRX
4th MC MCS 325is
5th BMW 318i A4 WRX
6th MC MCS MCS
7th MC Celica GT MCS
8th Subaru Imprezza Celica GT MCS
9th Ford Focus Celica GT WRX
10th MC MCS WRX

H Stock Ladies G Stck L STXL
1st MC Celica GT WRX
2nd MC A4
3rd MC Impressa RS
4th Civic Celica

three pretty large classes, three different dominant cars, but the bottom line IMHO is that MINI's are pretty tough wherever they compete......as long as they are not BRG....if they are....all bets are off.....

yeah, mine is BRG, so I know about that.

I'm 2-0 in STX locally here in NC, even without a LSD. If I can get one installed early next spring, I'll probably try a national tour event or two, just to see how much more I need to improve.

Of course, I'd also want Azenis, Lightweight 15" wheels, etc. It would get expensive.

>>Bottom Line
>>RESULTS AT THE 2003 TIRE RACK AUTO CROSS NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS
>>
>>H Stock: G Stock STX
>>1st MC Celica GT WRX Wagon
>>2nd MC CRX MCS
>>3rd MC Celica GT WRX
>>4th MC MCS 325is
>>5th BMW 318i A4 WRX
>>6th MC MCS MCS
>>7th MC Celica GT MCS
>>8th Subaru Imprezza Celica GT MCS
>>9th Ford Focus Celica GT WRX
>>10th MC MCS WRX
>>
>>H Stock Ladies G Stck L STXL
>>1st MC Celica GT WRX
>>2nd MC A4
>>3rd MC Impressa RS
>>4th Civic Celica
>>
>>three pretty large classes, three different dominant cars, but the bottom line IMHO is that MINI's are pretty tough wherever they compete......as long as they are not BRG....if they are....all bets are off.....
Hey, you forgot 23rd Place MINI. That's me.
:lol:

I agree most of the factor is in the driver, not so much the car.

moving to Solo2 Forum