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Darksideblues42 06-08-2018 05:40 PM

2C57 low charging pressure and/or not plausible
 
Having an issue with my 2012 Countryman S All4, 84k miles

If I cruise at highway speed (70 ish, 2200 RPM) for a bit, I will get a Reduced Engine Power Icon (Half Yellow Engine) and the turbo won't spool. Scan tool shows error 2C57 (low charging pressure and/or not plausible)

Just replaced the diverter valve with a Forge Piston version, (the spring inside the factory one was actually broken) and the issue persists.

Where is my next step in solving this?

MrGrumpy 06-09-2018 01:19 PM

My 2012 Countryman S All4 is doing the same thing, with the same code. Highway speeds and put it under a load, like going up an incline where you have to push on the accelerator but not enough to downshift, and the half-engine malfunction light pops up and it goes into limp mode, right?
Mine was diagnosed as the wastegate not closing fully, resulting in a loss of boost and the codes being thrown at me.
I had been trying for a few months to diagnose the problem.
The solution: Just ordered an upgraded turbo from JMTC. You will need to replace your turbo most likely.
They diagnosed mine by running it down the freeway hooked up to their computer to read boost pressure and saw it wasnít where it was supposed to be, and it threw the code on them as well. Then they inspected the wastegate with a borescope and saw it is not closing fully under vacuum.
It sounds like you are having the exact same issue. If itís not a 2011 you wonít be covered under the warranty extension, Iím going through that battle as we speak. I finally said screw it, and decided to fix it myself ASAP, so I ordered a replacement today.
That really sucks, I definitely feel for you, itís an expensive fix. The dealership wants over $3500 to do the repair. I just ordered a JCW type turbo, all the install parts, and a couple of other things as well, and am still way under half of what the dealership wants to charge. If you are able, you can save $ by doing it yourself.
I donít know about yours but mine is an automatic. Hereís what to do in the meantime until you get it fixed: I have just been manually downshifting a gear before an incline that I think (or know from experience) will trigger the code and limp mode. Just downshift before you need to give it more gas, and you wonít throw the code, rpm and boost go up and the ECU thinks all is well. Itís a half measure for sure, but it may save your sanity until you can fix it.
If you like, Iíll let you know how it went doing mine myself, Iíll probably try to do it next weekend, if everything arrives by then.
Good luck

Darksideblues42 06-11-2018 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by MrGrumpy (Post 4397262)
My 2012 Countryman S All4 is doing the same thing, with the same code. Highway speeds and put it under a load, like going up an incline where you have to push on the accelerator but not enough to downshift, and the half-engine malfunction light pops up and it goes into limp mode, right?
Mine was diagnosed as the wastegate not closing fully, resulting in a loss of boost and the codes being thrown at me.
I had been trying for a few months to diagnose the problem.
The solution: Just ordered an upgraded turbo from JMTC. You will need to replace your turbo most likely.
They diagnosed mine by running it down the freeway hooked up to their computer to read boost pressure and saw it wasnít where it was supposed to be, and it threw the code on them as well. Then they inspected the wastegate with a borescope and saw it is not closing fully under vacuum.
It sounds like you are having the exact same issue. If itís not a 2011 you wonít be covered under the warranty extension, Iím going through that battle as we speak. I finally said screw it, and decided to fix it myself ASAP, so I ordered a replacement today.
That really sucks, I definitely feel for you, itís an expensive fix. The dealership wants over $3500 to do the repair. I just ordered a JCW type turbo, all the install parts, and a couple of other things as well, and am still way under half of what the dealership wants to charge. If you are able, you can save $ by doing it yourself.
I donít know about yours but mine is an automatic. Hereís what to do in the meantime until you get it fixed: I have just been manually downshifting a gear before an incline that I think (or know from experience) will trigger the code and limp mode. Just downshift before you need to give it more gas, and you wonít throw the code, rpm and boost go up and the ECU thinks all is well. Itís a half measure for sure, but it may save your sanity until you can fix it.
If you like, Iíll let you know how it went doing mine myself, Iíll probably try to do it next weekend, if everything arrives by then.
Good luck


Let me know what you uncover.

Any issues with ordering the JCW turbo vs the Stock one? Will be ordering parts sooner than later. My mileage has tanked, and it seems like the Forge DV I ordered isn't working well, the computer is claiming the Blow Off Valve is stuck closed.

MrGrumpy 06-11-2018 02:48 PM


Originally Posted by Darksideblues42 (Post 4397758)
Let me know what you uncover.

Any issues with ordering the JCW turbo vs the Stock one? Will be ordering parts sooner than later. My mileage has tanked, and it seems like the Forge DV I ordered isn't working well, the computer is claiming the Blow Off Valve is stuck closed.

No issues as far as ordering it went. I placed the order on Saturday, they sent me a tracking number the same day, it is supposed to be here on Wednesday. They say that their JM40/JCW turbo will fit right on a Cooper S and will work with stock components, although to get the full benefit of its potential, they recommend a tune and a few minor mods. Iím doing some of the mods with the turbo, like the charge pipes and I already have a good intake. I will put on a hi-flow DP when I get a tune.... but who knows when (or if) Iíll actually ever get around to that, lol.
Iím going to wait and see how it does just with what Iím putting on it first.
Arric at JMTurbo Coopers was really prompt about returning emails and answering the questions that I had. So far a top notch experience.

Darksideblues42 07-07-2018 07:40 PM

New Turbo installed today, along with oil catch can, Forge Recirculation valve, and some other goodies.

Everything looks great....until I get up to 30 mph. Then car gets very angry, runs rough, skipping, etc. Live data shows Cylinder 3 miss fire.

Need to wait until the morning because I don't have the 14mm deep socket for our godforsaken spark plugs, which has to be the issue because the wires test good, the coil tested good, so spark plug is my next stop.

MrGrumpy 07-07-2018 08:40 PM

Do you have a boost gauge to see what the new turbo is doing? A misfire above 3000 rpm could also be caused by too much boost. Itís an issue I had right after the replacement. I had to adjust the wastegate a little bit to dial it in. Just a thought if you canít figure it out. When I put my foot in it, it bucked and misfired, and threw a cyl 3 misfire code. Was just simply pushing too much boost.

Darksideblues42 07-07-2018 09:20 PM

This is at idle, not just 30MPH.

My guess is with the boost actually working now, the plug is just not able to cleanly fire with the added pressure.

Old wastegate was/is loose and sloppy. New one is firm as all hell.

Have real time data boost feedback from OBDII and will check tomorrow after I pull the plug and check it out.

Darksideblues42 07-07-2018 09:23 PM


Originally Posted by MrGrumpy (Post 4397807)

No issues as far as ordering it went. I placed the order on Saturday, they sent me a tracking number the same day, it is supposed to be here on Wednesday. They say that their JM40/JCW turbo will fit right on a Cooper S and will work with stock components, although to get the full benefit of its potential, they recommend a tune and a few minor mods. Iím doing some of the mods with the turbo, like the charge pipes and I already have a good intake. I will put on a hi-flow DP when I get a tune.... but who knows when (or if) Iíll actually ever get around to that, lol.
Iím going to wait and see how it does just with what Iím putting on it first.
Arric at JMTurbo Coopers was really prompt about returning emails and answering the questions that I had. So far a top notch experience.

If you keep the stock intake, the hose from the turbo to your intake will need to have the spacer removed from the end of the hose. The JM 40 is like a 1/4 inch larger, but your factory hose has a spacer collar that pulls right out.

MrGrumpy 07-08-2018 10:17 AM


Originally Posted by Darksideblues42 (Post 4404506)
If you keep the stock intake, the hose from the turbo to your intake will need to have the spacer removed from the end of the hose. The JM 40 is like a 1/4 inch larger, but your factory hose has a spacer collar that pulls right out.

I just installed a JM40 on my Ď12, the the intake fits as is, with the spacer in place. Although the JCW compressor is 40mm the turbo inlet is the same size as the factory 37mm unit. The factory JCW turbo does have a larger inlet bore though.

Darksideblues42 07-09-2018 12:36 PM


Originally Posted by MrGrumpy (Post 4404593)


I just installed a JM40 on my Ď12, the the intake fits as is, with the spacer in place. Although the JCW compressor is 40mm the turbo inlet is the same size as the factory 37mm unit. The factory JCW turbo does have a larger inlet bore though.

I got the JM S42 turbo, so that may have something to do with it.

My cylinder 3 issue was a combination of plugs and coilpack.

All better now!

MrGrumpy 07-09-2018 02:31 PM


Originally Posted by Darksideblues42 (Post 4404880)
I got the JM S42 turbo, so that may have something to do with it.

My cylinder 3 issue was a combination of plugs and coilpack.

All better now!

Good deal, glad to hear thatís all it was!
yeah, that one is different Iím sure, lol. As far as I know, on the JM40 they still use the factory MCS turbo sized housing but with the 40mm compressor inside.

Mochanic 07-09-2018 07:20 PM

I have been fighting this issue for a few months now!
My wife's completely stock 2012 R60 Countryman has the dreaded 2C57 code (charging pressure control plausibility pressure too low) that is driving me nuts!
I have done everything I can think of so far.
The car runs fine, but it throws the code every time you drive it. Usually it's a light acceleration under a load that sets the code.

Done so far:
New coils and NGK spark plugs (recently, about a month before this issue came up)
New silicone diaphragm in the valve cover (old one was not torn, but I put a new one in anyways)
New OEM diverter valve
New OEM pressure converter
New high pressure fuel pump replaced under extended warranty
Pulled the downpipe/converter off the turbo and can visually see that the wastegate closes when putting a hand vacuum pump on the wastegate actuator. Seems to make a good seal, and there is no play or movement in the linkage from what I can tell. Decided to adjust the linkage anyway since I was already there and it's so much work to get back to that point. Set the travel distance to about 12-13mm. It was a bit more before the adjustment.
With my vacuum gauge on the actuator, I get to about 10in hg at the point the wastegate starts to hit the seat and it's super tight at 15in.
I have checked all the pipes and hose connections, even pressurized the charge pipe with about 10psi from my air compressor onto an adapter to the hose that normally comes off the turbo. I can hear the air going into the intake, but nothing else is leaking from what I can tell.

Can't wait to sell this over engineered headache!

Any other suggestions are welcome!

Darksideblues42 07-09-2018 07:53 PM


Originally Posted by Mochanic (Post 4404964)
I have been fighting this issue for a few months now!
My wife's completely stock 2012 R60 Countryman has the dreaded 2C57 code (charging pressure control plausibility pressure too low) that is driving me nuts!
I have done everything I can think of so far.
The car runs fine, but it throws the code every time you drive it. Usually it's a light acceleration under a load that sets the code.

Done so far:
New coils and NGK spark plugs (recently, about a month before this issue came up)
New silicone diaphragm in the valve cover (old one was not torn, but I put a new one in anyways)
New OEM diverter valve
New OEM pressure converter
New high pressure fuel pump replaced under extended warranty
Pulled the downpipe/converter off the turbo and can visually see that the wastegate closes when putting a hand vacuum pump on the wastegate actuator. Seems to make a good seal, and there is no play or movement in the linkage from what I can tell. Decided to adjust the linkage anyway since I was already there and it's so much work to get back to that point. Set the travel distance to about 12-13mm. It was a bit more before the adjustment.
With my vacuum gauge on the actuator, I get to about 10in hg at the point the wastegate starts to hit the seat and it's super tight at 15in.
I have checked all the pipes and hose connections, even pressurized the charge pipe with about 10psi from my air compressor onto an adapter to the hose that normally comes off the turbo. I can hear the air going into the intake, but nothing else is leaking from what I can tell.

Can't wait to sell this over engineered headache!

Any other suggestions are welcome!

You went through the same process as I did. It is the wastegate, I would bet on it, unless your vacuum lines themselves are weak, or your vacuum pump is.

I had all the same issues, most of the same troubleshooting steps, and ended up just buying a new turbo.

All better now

Mochanic 07-09-2018 08:05 PM

Man I don't want to hear that! I've been a professional technician most of my life and have never worked on anything this ridiculous to get to. It would probably be easier to just pull the motor out to replace the turbo...

I still don't see how it could be the turbo, the vacuum pump closes it perfectly fine (STUPID DESIGN BTW, why on earth would they choose a vacuum system to CLOSE a wastegate! Just one more over engineered reason to unload this car as soon as I get it fixed for her)

Thanks for your quick reply though I'll take all the help I can get at this point!

Mochanic 07-09-2018 08:13 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Here's a couple pics of todays work.

MrGrumpy 07-09-2018 11:53 PM


Originally Posted by Darksideblues42 (Post 4404970)
You went through the same process as I did. It is the wastegate, I would bet on it, unless your vacuum lines themselves are weak, or your vacuum pump is.

I had all the same issues, most of the same troubleshooting steps, and ended up just buying a new turbo.

All better now

Same here...same symptoms....same fix

MrGrumpy 07-10-2018 12:01 AM


Originally Posted by Mochanic (Post 4404975)
Man I don't want to hear that! I've been a professional technician most of my life and have never worked on anything this ridiculous to get to. It would probably be easier to just pull the motor out to replace the turbo...

I still don't see how it could be the turbo, the vacuum pump closes it perfectly fine (STUPID DESIGN BTW, why on earth would they choose a vacuum system to CLOSE a wastegate! Just one more over engineered reason to unload this car as soon as I get it fixed for her)

Thanks for your quick reply though I'll take all the help I can get at this point!

There is the service position that will move the front radiator support bracket and almost everything else out almost 3Ē to make more room to work. Itís worh learning how to do, once youíve done it, itís very easy to do.
Another thing to try sanity-wise. When I was still trying to figure mine out, it went into limp-mode so often under a load just like you. But it usually happened on the freeway or highway on inclines. I kind of learned where it was likely to do it, and started manually (automatic trans) downshifting before the hill. If you drop a gear and raise the rpms a bit, the ECU expects to see a different boost level, which will change with the engine speed and load. Try it, it just might help you stay sane until itís taken care of.
Good luck and let us know what you find out.

MrGrumpy 07-10-2018 12:30 AM

Darksideblues42 you said you got the JMTC S42mm turbo, correct? How do you like it? And what boost psi are you running at? Do you have a tune?
Sorry for the barrage of questions, but Iím just curious. Iím quite happy with the JM40. It was making too much boost when I first installed it. I had to adjust the wastegate a bit to get it down to where the ECU wasnít fighting it. Iím not sure how much, but when I put my foot in it, I hit the boost/fuel cut-off and went right into limp mode! Lol. So over 25 I think it is. Right now Iíve got it turned down so Iím maxing out at about 17.5 psi, and the car is much happier. But itís just on the factory ECU settings. Iím getting a tune from MarioKart in a few weeks.

Mochanic 07-10-2018 12:43 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by MrGrumpy (Post 4404995)
There is the service position that will move the front radiator support bracket and almost everything else out almost 3Ē to make more room to work. Itís worh learning how to do, once youíve done it, itís very easy to do.

You mean like this? It would be easier to drop the freakin motor out the bottom than to do that again! This is seriously about the dumbest designed car I have ever worked on!

MrGrumpy 07-10-2018 01:10 AM

Yeah, sort of like that.... sorry.... Iíll go sit in my corner again. ;-)
Well, thatís about all Iíve got. Sounds like you know what to look for. Just a thought, did you monitor or log the boost pressure when it was driving? I ask because I thought my wastegate looked like it was closing fine, but when I watched a boost gauge (just an app on my phone and $10 dongle from Amazon) I wasnít hitting anywhere near the normal boost level, and as soon as it would hit about 6 psi it would start to head backs down, because it couldnít build or hold enough pressure. Where it went into limp-mode it was expecting boost and getting none. It would barely stop pulling vacuum under those circumstances. Now in the same places and situations when I apply just slight increase in throttle, it jumps right up to 13 psi and just pulls like it never did. You might have done this already, but it may be another idea for trying to diagnose it. Just a thought, anyway good luck! Keep us informed on how itís going.

Darksideblues42 07-10-2018 08:17 AM


Originally Posted by MrGrumpy (Post 4404995)

There is the service position that will move the front radiator support bracket and almost everything else out almost 3Ē to make more room to work. Itís worh learning how to do, once youíve done it, itís very easy to do.
Another thing to try sanity-wise. When I was still trying to figure mine out, it went into limp-mode so often under a load just like you. But it usually happened on the freeway or highway on inclines. I kind of learned where it was likely to do it, and started manually (automatic trans) downshifting before the hill. If you drop a gear and raise the rpms a bit, the ECU expects to see a different boost level, which will change with the engine speed and load. Try it, it just might help you stay sane until itís taken care of.
Good luck and let us know what you find out.

I took service mode a step further, pulled everything off the front.

I can't do an ECU tune as the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has deemed them unlawful, and I could lose far more than my license if I did it.

Before my Bluetooth adapter gave up the ghost, I was sitting at 18 psi happily, and holding it for quite a wide range.

Ordered a new adapter, will log more data soon.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...f69144b927.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...0a79754a23.jpg

MrGrumpy 07-10-2018 09:21 AM

Holy cow! You really did tear it down! Iíll bet it gave you all kinds of room though. I kinda wish I had done that, probably wouldnít have taken as long with small turns at a time on the wrenches, lol. That probably made things easier.
Ok, so we are both pretty close right now to the same number. anything more and the car wasnít happy. Thatís a bummer about the tune. Mario just told me this morning in an answer about the pop and burbles that I asked, told me that it still only does it in sport, but will probably do it a bit more than now when turned on. As he put it, Iíll be able to be stealth around town and a public nuisance when I want to, lol.
But I totally see it from your side, and itís not worth the risk. What a dumb law.

Darksideblues42 07-10-2018 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by MrGrumpy (Post 4405100)
Holy cow! You really did tear it down! Iíll bet it gave you all kinds of room though. I kinda wish I had done that, probably wouldnít have taken as long with small turns at a time on the wrenches, lol. That probably made things easier.
Ok, so we are both pretty close right now to the same number. anything more and the car wasnít happy. Thatís a bummer about the tune. Mario just told me this morning in an answer about the pop and burbles that I asked, told me that it still only does it in sport, but will probably do it a bit more than now when turned on. As he put it, Iíll be able to be stealth around town and a public nuisance when I want to, lol.
But I totally see it from your side, and itís not worth the risk. What a dumb law.

Tons of room.

What was limiting me was a weak coil and old plugs. Swapped them, all was happy, going to play with the pre-load once I get a new OBDII adapter, unless someone can tell me how to see the boost values with the Schwaben scan tool.

MrGrumpy 07-10-2018 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by Darksideblues42 (Post 4405143)
Tons of room.

What was limiting me was a weak coil and old plugs. Swapped them, all was happy, going to play with the pre-load once I get a new OBDII adapter, unless someone can tell me how to see the boost values with the Schwaben scan tool.

thatís funny, Iím not really thrilled with the little bit of lag I get between the car and the gauge using DashCmd. I was thinking of trying to see if I can just monitor it with my Schwaben as well!

MrGrumpy 07-10-2018 01:37 PM

My only issue is that Iím getting a real brief quick whislte not when the DV dumps but when the wastegate is relieving pressure. itís just a real short little tea kettle type whistle. At a certain lower rpm it does it I think I may have a small leak in my intake tube. Sounds (from inside the car) like thatís what it is coming from. Thatís where it dumps to, so...... The factory replacement is not cheap. Iíd rather by an aftermarket one, but the ones Iíve seen donít have a spot for the pvc or egr or whatever that is that plugs into the smaller tube coming off of it, or for the electrical connector. But the one thatís on there is a little bit torn up on the end and at the hose clamp (thanks Seattle MINI!) So for now, I went and got some carb cleaner to find the leak, and some epoxy and fix-it tape....lol....so Iím cheap! Ha ha..... going for the temporary fix for now!


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