wow thats really quick to go through a clutch. unfortunatly i would stay away from oem, since a r60 weighs more than a r56, and its the same clutch. i would go aftermarket, one that is really meant for a r60 if it exists. i havent reached that point myself, and i wont for a long time. OS giken will be good but they are pricy

 

I'm at 92K and in the throws of the same dilemma. Looking at the Clutchmaster stage 1 kit (with steel flywheel). My concerns are the same as above, but also that I've read that SMF conversions can cause clutch chatter. I'm wondering how damaging that might be for the driveline.

 

Have not had my JCW long enough to know how long the clutch is going to last but my experience with a number of other cars over the hears is 40K miles clutch life is horrible. Worst case was a '88 Tempo in which the clutch failed -- starting slipping -- at around 50K miles. However, back then there were BBS and checking on some found this a rather common problem. I used this to get the dealer to agree to replace the clutch for half price. I drove the car another 30K miles with no clutch problems.

The only other car in which I had to have the clutch replaced was my '96 Mustang GT with around 150K miles on it. The throwout bearing failed. I don't know how far gone the clutch was I just had the clutch hardware along with of course the throwout bearing replaced.

At the other end I managed 317K miles from my Boxster's clutch. (This car saw its share of stop and go driving.) 161K miles from my Turbo's clutch. And 150K miles from my VW Golf TDI's clutch. Other cars were driven fewer miles but still no clutch issues.

Unless the Mini or the model and model years of car you have are known to have clutch problems I'd have to believe you are the problem. Sorry. But you need to consider this.

What I found produces good clutch life is to when time to move off from a stop give the engine a bit of gas, just a brief press of the gas pedal, to raise RPMs just a bit over hot idle speed. Then concurrent with this brief press with the engine RPMs up some smoothly release the clutch pedal and let the energy in the flywheel get the car moving. The car moves off smartly with very little clutch slippage.

Getting the car moving off with minimal clutch slippage goes a long way to delivering good clutch life. At all other times smoothness with the clutch is paramount.

There is not a whole lot of material on the disc to take a lot of wear. For example with my Porsche 996 Turbo the working clutch disc thickness was 1.4mm (per side). At around 120K miles I had the transmission out of the car to replace a rear main seal in the engine. I measured the clutch disc thickness -- which was measured using a depth micrometer from the clutch disc friction surface to the rivet head. The new depth measurement was 1.7mm. The disc was considered worn out when this got to 0.3mm. At 120K miles the measurement was 1.7mm. Essentially the disc had experienced no wear in 120K miles.

To build some confidence in this technique what you can do is with the engine up to temperature on flat ground with your foot off the gas pedal and the engine idling slowly release the clutch with the transmission in 1st gear. The engine controller will keep the engine speed at the desired idle speed (around 750 RPMs but of course this varies from car brand/make but it is ballpark...) and in just a brief amount of time while slowly letting the clutch pedal out the car will be moving forward and the clutch pedal can be fully released. This shows you how little engine energy is required to get the car moving. Of course this technique is rather impractical to use in real world driving as you need to get the car moving off a bit quicker than what this technique provides for. (BTW, it is the technique recommended to get a Porsche Carrera GT moving with minimal clutch slippage and wear and tear. The C-GT clutch is very small in diameter -- it has multiple plates though -- to allow the engine to be very low in the car for a low center of gravity. Now you know when you get a chance to drive one.)

'course, you are well aware of avoiding leaving the transmission in gear and holding the clutch pedal down -- the preferred technique is to if one doesn't anticipate moving off again within a brief time to shift into neutral and release the clutch pedal -- and not using the clutch to hold the car on a hill. (My JCW has some kind of hill holding feature -- my first manual equipped to have this -- which is cool.) Last but not least you do not use the clutch as a brake. You can downshift as you slow the car down -- I downshift at a pretty low RPM though -- but any braking action comes from using the brakes not the clutch.

When replacing clutches I've always gone with OEM. I know from experience of others who have gone aftermarket sometimes choosing the most extreme aftermarket clutch thinking they'd never have to buy a clutch again have found the aftermarket clutch too extreme to really use day to day. With rare exceptions the stock/factory clutch should be all the clutch a factory stock engine needs. But as I touched upon above it needs the right kind of treatment.

 

The R60 is known for and has a documented history of a short clutch life, complete with a clutch update from Mini a couple years after the issue became apparent. Some owners have reported failures as soon as 20,000 miles. You'd have to be super brutal on a clutch for that to happen on most cars. There are a couple different arguments on what causes it but they all center around the clutch being undersized and/or that the dual mass flywheel doesn't shed heat well enough. Either way, it's a known problem. The issue wasn't just with the R60, either. They moved to a single mass flywheel in the R56 line.

I do find it humorous that you came out of the box assuming that someone simply doesn't know how to drive a manual transmission without knowing anything about the person. Personally, I've been driving manuals for something around 25 years. In that time 8 of the 10 cars I owned were manuals, and there was only a two year period where my only car was an auto. This is the first clutch I've needed to replace. Suffice to say, it's highly unlikely it's my driving style.

That being said, I bought it with 60,000+ miles on it. So, I have no idea how the previous owner drove it. Regardless, talk to any Mini specialist about R60's and they will echo the same sentiment.

 

i also wouldnt worry about ditching the dual mass, going to a single mass will have more feel, you might hear some chatter at idle, but whatever. I went to single mass in my r53..... so much better

 

I went with the clutch masters setup, lightened aluminum one peice flywheel and stronger clutch. Couldnt be happier with it!

 

Ok. My bad for jumping to conclusions. Just I'm rather surprised a Mini is fitted with a weak clutch. (An '88 Ford Tempo, not a surprise, but a Mini?)

 

For a lot of stop and go traffic I would for sure recommend just going stock as it will be the smoothest for the stop and go
https://www.waymotorworks.com/oem-cl...-cooper-s.html

The OS Giken is pretty on and off so it is not smooth if you are driving stop and go and will wear out faster.

The Clutchmasters is still going to grab more and not be as smooth as stock, but not as harsh as the Giken
https://www.waymotorworks.com/clutch...-cooper-s.html

 

Not meaning to hijack this post but I have just spent 45 minutes reading a very long thread about clutch failures on the Countryman ALL4. We have just taken delivery on a 2012 that was built in late 2011 and I have a really sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that we may have purchased a lemon for $13,000 and that it will only be a matter of time before we experience a premature clutch failure. The only good thing that the Carfax report indicates that the clutch was replaced at 54,710 which, if it was the first replacement, is an encouraging sign. Of course there may have been previous replacements not documented in the report. What I need to know as soon as possible to give me some reassurance is, are there aftermarket clutches available that replace the poorly designed original? One final point, the same report says that the flywheel was resurfaced but I understood that the flywheel in this model can't be resurfaced because of its design

 

Had you done any research on these vehicles before you spent your $$$ on one, you would have discovered that they have a number of known faults (clutch, HPFP, battery etc). That doesn't mean however that your car will suffer any or all of these issues, just that they have a higher than expected failure rate.

 

I understand that it's a case of buyer beware but you shouldn't assume that I didn't do any research, I just didn't find the thread that would have caused me to seriously consider not buying. I can handle battery problems and even HPFP failures but $2,000 for clutch replacements with no guarantee that it won't happen again in under 10,000 miles is not acceptable. ...and what the crap about not exceeding 1,500 rpm when changing gears that has been reported!
Call me delusional, I assumed that after working for a german machinery company for the last 20 years that a product made by BMW/Mini would not have really serious design issues that the manufacturer has refused to fix or even acknowledge. The Germans have really strict product safety laws...guess they don't apply to their products in other countries.

 

I went with the Clutchmasters FX100. I really like it! I don't think it's grabby at all. The engagement feels way smoother (don't read soft or feathery) that OEM clutch. Of course, that could just be the difference between it being all worn out and this one being new. Besides a barely noticeable clutch rattle that occurs sometimes, it's really great. I guess I'll see how great it still is in another 50k.

 

There are non-OEM options, per a couple posts above, including my own. However, it's important to note that Mini was supposed to have issued an updated clutch around 2012, I think. It is meant to resolve the premature failure issue, but I honestly haven't heard/read reports either way on that.

 

Hadn't heard of the 1500 RPM thing. However, the HPFP is an extended warranty item that should still be covered if it hasn't already been changed out. Go to your nearest dealer and ask them to pull up your VIN. They'll be able to tell you if it has or not, and it should be at no cost to you.

RE: Research: I had a similar issue with a previous car, a BMW 335i, where I wanted to take it out occasionally for HPDE days. I researched to see if there were any issues with tracking that car, specifically oil temp/cooler issues. I found nothing. I took it to an HPDE weekend and promptly dropped the bottom end out of it on the second day. While it was getting repaired, I went back to the boards to see WTF. Of course, this time I found comments about oil starvation issues in corners. Just goes to show, like we all know, you can't always trust the internet.

 

No worries, man. The general consensus (internet and mechanics alike) seems to be that they just co-opted the clutch from the R56 (before they moved that model to SMF). Being that the R56 is neither AWD nor as heavy as the R60, it just isn't up to the task. One of those typical scenarios where a manufacturer tries to cut corners to save some cash, and it doesn't work out.

 

If one reads the owner manual carefully he can come upon at least a comment somewhere to avoid downshifting at high RPMs. At least with some cars. I think my Porsche 996 Turbo owner manual had something about this.

Regardless, believe it or not except in rare cases I downshift at around 1500 RPMs or less. This works to prolong clutch life. (I do this even with my JCW even though it has some kind of rev match that when I shift from a higher gear to a lower gear the engine RPMs are raised so the shift is very smooth and the clutch can be reengaged with no slippage.)

Having owned at least one German car since 2002 -- 5 in all including my JCW -- I can tell you they have design issues. Not even the Germans are immune from the occasional screw up.

 

Is that downshifting without rev matching? Seems like some proper heel/toe should negate that danger. Admittedly, it's not as easy as it sounds.

 

I had read that it referred to change ups which in retrospect didn't make any sense. When downshifting approaching a stop I don't use the engine as a brake but prefer to try and match rpm by gently blipping the gas pedal as I change down and then coasting to a stop.
My initial concern upon reading stories of premature clutch failures has now been tempered by reading of quite a few owners who are or have enhanced the performance of their Mini Countryman for road use, they don't appear to be complaining of premature clutch failures.

 

Yeah I do that as well. I've been working on my heel toe, but it's difficult to practice on the road when you're not braking hard. Ors a lot easier when the brake pedal is depressed more. Alas, this is getting a bit off topic for this thread.

 

I don't heel/toe in the strictest sense but I do rev match. But generally when I roll to a stop I just shift from a higher gear to neutral without bothering with any intermediate gears. If I'm slowing I'll say shift from 5th (or in my Mini from 6th) to 4th or from whatever higher gear I'm in to something lower/appropriate based on the RPMs so rev matching is really easy and the gear I anticipate I'll need when I'm through slowing.

'course, the JCW when I down shift the engine controller does something with the throttle which means the shift and clutch engagement are very smooth as the engine revs are matched perfectly to the gear I've selected.

But even before the Mini it was really easy for me to be smooth down shifting. I didn't have to think about the process, I hate to say it but it was just automatic.

 

Kids, the original clutch used in the Countryman from 2011 thru 2010 was part #21202349037 which was the same as R56. It wasn't heavy enough to withstand spirited driving in the countryman which of course was heavier than the R56. Starting mid 2013 the part number was changed to 2120860607 which is the JCW clutch. Built to handle higher horsepower and spirited driving. All replacements if done at a dealer or using factory parts after 2013 should be the JCW clutch. If driven properly( put car in neutral at stop lights, take your foot off pedal completely between shifts etc... ) it will last a long time. I got over 110k out of mine and it was still good when we traded the car. If you increase the Power by tuning or other methods that will also decrease the life of this clutch. Its meant for 230hp JCW. If your is higher than get an aftermarket clutch as WAY suggests.

 

ke3ee, thanks for the valuable info.

In that case I will keep my fingers crossed that our Cooper S Countryman ALL4 has the JCW clutch installed. Our car is a 2012 model with 60,000 miles on it. The Carfax report we got when we purchased it two months ago stated that the clutch was replaced in December 2017 at 55,000 miles. I called the company that did the work and they told me that they would have installed the OEM clutch that was currently available at the time they did the work.

BTW, LOL I'm 68 years old, and haven't been called a kid for a very long time.

 

Surely the only wear and tear it will save by putting the car in neutral at stop lights is on the clutch release bearing?

 

No, pressure plate springs, release bearing and clutch plate, as there is always a small amount of friction between the plate, flywheel and pressure plate when pedal is engaged. At 60 yrs old I can remember this being drilled into me when learning to drive.