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I was just at Mini Las vegas yesterday for a rotation on my wifes R56- I overheard the conversation with one of the advisers about this exact thing- 0w-30 0w-20 or 5w30/20
he said in hot weather climates (Vegas) the dealership will put in the 5w-30 but then will switch sometimes depending on the forcast that year to 0W20 if its going to be a cold enough year. He said the dealerships will navigate the weather and usually not really say anything.
he did however seriously tell the person to not ever take their mini back to the service center it was at (probably some Sears or Walmart place) because they put a blend oil in.
so depending on your location and the season- apparently Mini dealerships will sometimes change the weight without asking. but it seemed like 0w 5w and 20/30 are all within recommended specs.
i just watched a video on Mobile 1's new Annual Protection oil- step by step through all their testing and stuff- supposed to be pretty darn good stuff. I wouldnt trust changing at 20k or 1x per year, but it was very interesting to see the testing and what they did.
Correct the Xw-20(or30) the W part is for Winter so the more seasons you have the higher the W rating you should consider.
When I had the Jeep I would change my oil in April/May to 0W or 5W-30 and in October/November 10W-30. As far as my R60 goes I haven’t switched to 0W-30 kind of kept it at 5W-30 all year and I’m in the NorthEast (NYC)
Correct the Xw-20(or30) the W part is for Winter so the more seasons you have the higher the W rating you should consider.
When I had the Jeep I would change my oil in April/May to 0W or 5W-30 and in October/November 10W-30. As far as my R60 goes I haven’t switched to 0W-30 kind of kept it at 5W-30 all year and I’m in the NorthEast (NYC)
I think you might have that a little bit mixed up brother;
The W is correct, Winter, But you dont want a higher number in the winter, youd want a lower number to allow the oil to flow less thick in a winter climate. correct me if im wrong please, but this is what Ive always known it to be.
thats not saying that in the summer it "thickens" to a 20 weight oil, but it will allow that same viscosity characteristics during hotter climates as a standard 20 weight oil would provide.
manufacturers have moved from the standard 10w30 to a thinner more movement friendly 5w20 and even 0w20 oil because of their increased manufacturing tolerances and increases in oil viscosity technology- allowing a very thin oil for quick cold start movement while still offering the durability and coating characteristics of a 20/30 weight at operating temperatures.
winter months youd still want to run a lower WINTER (W) weight oil. if your doing heavy towing, serious hot climate (Las Vegas, Phoenix) youd want to maybe possibly run a slightly higher latter weight oil (30) but honestly with the technology inbedded in the oils now a days- id say 5w20 is probably the best viscosity weight out there for tight tolerance engines like BMW and Toyota. In my opinion.
Right, the lower the number before the W, the quicker it will flow when starting up. If the oil rating is 0w-40 or 10w-40, when the engine is at running temp, it is all a 40 weight rated oil. The lower number at the beginning is what the oil will flow at cooler temps when starting up.
I have a diesel truck and the manufacture states I should run a 15w-40 minimum. But if in a cooler climate, run a 5w-40 or a 0w-40. So I have flow stating, but at operating temp, it's all a 40w. So in the average summer and winter temps, I run a 5w-40 year round. Have been considering a 0w-40, but it's was harder to find as a constant supplied oil in my area.
If this would hurt my engine, in the prior pickup I had, it said 10w-40 and I ran 0w-40 year round and only had 400,000 miles on the clock when sold and the guy who bought it kept using the same oil and had another 80,000 plus on it when I moved out of the area. No mechanical issues and no rebuild of the engine in it's life.
Yes, they have been changing the oil ratings over the years, and as with my Mini, it states use 0w-20 LL 14FE+. So for warrantee that is what I'll use. Could I get by with other ratings ?
Yes, but if on warrantee, they can reject any coverage. And after warrantee ... they don't care, they are not paying for anyting.
What was the engine design to use and the material/mechanical changes over the years requiring this rating ?
Right, the lower the number before the W, the quicker it will flow when starting up. If the oil rating is 0w-40 or 10w-40, when the engine is at running temp, it is all a 40 weight rated oil. The lower number at the beginning is what the oil will flow at cooler temps when starting up.
I have a diesel truck and the manufacture states I should run a 15w-40 minimum. But if in a cooler climate, run a 5w-40 or a 0w-40. So I have flow stating, but at operating temp, it's all a 40w. So in the average summer and winter temps, I run a 5w-40 year round. Have been considering a 0w-40, but it's was harder to find as a constant supplied oil in my area.
If this would hurt my engine, in the prior pickup I had, it said 10w-40 and I ran 0w-40 year round and only had 400,000 miles on the clock when sold and the guy who bought it kept using the same oil and had another 80,000 plus on it when I moved out of the area. No mechanical issues and no rebuild of the engine in it's life.
Yes, they have been changing the oil ratings over the years, and as with my Mini, it states use 0w-20 LL 14FE+. So for warrantee that is what I'll use. Could I get by with other ratings ?
Yes, but if on warrantee, they can reject any coverage. And after warrantee ... they don't care, they are not paying for anyting.
What was the engine design to use and the material/mechanical changes over the years requiring this rating ?
great points and info-
Mobile 1 uses Toyota and BMW engines mainly for their oil testing though with this new oil they broke into the GM turbo engines to test build up on the bearing surfaces of the turbo chargers in order to qualify their oil to the GM corporation as meeting their specs.
Toyota and BMW set most standards for oil manufactures testing programs due to their tight tolerances and toyotas demand for engine longevity. BMW longevity standards are lower than Toyota, but they do have a much higher initial performance, viscosity rating standard.
I think it was Jeremy Clarkson that said it best about changing things after the manufacturer when he tested the M2- he said something along the lines of what kind of consumer thinks they know better than the engineers at BMW M division????
so really, when it comes to oil "weight"- I tend to stick to whatever the manufacturer recommends in the owners manual. after that- oil brand/technology choice is fully up to you. In my Toyotas/Lexus, and even my Nissans, I typcially stuck to Castrol or Enos. in the minis so far, Ive ran Castrol and LuquiMoly. I am feeling more partial to LiquiMoly (just seemed to run smoother with it) but as for viscosity, I will read the manual and stick to whatever it says regarding weights at certain temps.
The problem I have is with the newer requirements for my warrantee. There are very few who makes the required 0w-20 LL 14FE+ and sold in the U.S. of A. And I just entered the 4 month of ownership .. with a looooong way to go till the end.
It gets a little more confusing with the 3rd Gen cars. Originally they called for 5W-30 and in mid production IIRC 1/2016 they changed the standard to 0W-20. Same motors, just changed the specs and now the Mobil 1 that I'd been running in my R56 before and my F56 now, no longer meet BMW specs. I checked Mobil 1 website and they say they don't make an oil now that is approved by BMW.
Viscosity is the most important property of a lubricant. Understanding viscosity promotes the ability to reduce wear, improve fuel economy and make more horsepower.
For starters, in oil nomenclature, “W” does not stand for “Weight”. It stands for “Winter” and that is the key to understanding viscosity grades. A 10W-30 is a multi-grade (two viscosities) motor oil, and as the name implies, it meets more than one grade. Forty years ago there were winter grades for cold weather and summer grades for warmer weather. A typical winter grade was 10W. A typical summer grade was 30. These oils were straight grade oils. A 10W flows well in cold weather, to protect the engine at start up, but it’s is too thin for use in the summer. A 30 grade grade oil, thick enough to protect in the heat, was recommended for summer use.
Then, multi-grade oils were formulated. A 10W-30 had the winter cold start flow properties of a 10W and the summer, high temperature thickness of a 30 grade. Multi-grade oils could stay as close to the optimum viscosity over a range of temperatures - not too thick when it is cold and not too thin when it is hot.
The difference between a 0W-30 and a 10W-30 is indicated by how well each flows at lower temperatures. The viscosity of hot oil is measured using different test parameters than when the oil is cold, so the numbers after the “W” don’t relate to the numbers in front of the “W”. The difference between 10W-30 and a 10W-40 is the high temperature viscosity. Obviously, a 10W-40 is thicker than a 10W-30 at high temperature.
Armed with knowledge of viscosity grades, how can we put it to good use? Remember that using oil with a viscosity that is too high can result in excessive oil temperature and increased drag. Using an oil with a low viscosity can lead to excessive metal to metal contact between moving parts. Using the correct viscosity oil eases starting, reduces friction and slows wear.
For even more effective start up protection, use a synthetic 10W-40 instead of a conventional 20W-50. The synthetic 10W-40 flows easily and still maintains enough viscosity to protect piston skirts and bearings when it gets hot. The improved temperature stability of synthetics make them a better choice for race engines and serious high performance engines. Even with a synthetic, however, viscosity changes with temperature. Selecting the correct viscosity for an application requires knowing the operating temperature of the oil. Engines that run high operating oil temperatures require higher viscosity oil.
Engines that run low oil temps require lower viscosity oil. Look at an NHRA Pro Stock engine, a NASCAR Sprint Cup engine and a World of Outlaws 410 Sprint engine. Each engine has a very different operating oil temperature – Pro Stock, 100°F; NASCAR, 220°F and sprint cars, 300°F. All three engines run very different viscosity oils as well − SAE 0W-5, SAE 5W-20 and SAE 15W-50.
Here’s another thought regarding viscosity. It is vitally important to keep internal engine clearances in mind. Looser clearances in the engine and oil pump require higher viscosity oil to maintain oil pressure. Tighter clearances need lower viscosity oil, which provides better cooling and improved horsepower.
Armed with knowledge of viscosity grades, you can now select the right one. In return, you will prevent wear, improve fuel economy and make more horsepower. If you have any questions regarding viscosity grades and selecting the correct viscosity lubricant, please contact your Motor State Sales Representiative, Driven Racing Oil or visit DrivenRacingOil.com.
Ask AMSOIL: What Happens if I Use the Wrong Weight (Viscosity) of Oil ?
Using a motor oil whose viscosity is too low or too high for your engine can invite a few problems, such as reduced fuel economy, increased chemical breakdown and increased wear. To understand why, you should first understand viscosity.
What is viscosity?
Viscosity is defined as a liquid's resistance to flow. The higher an oil’s viscosity, the less readily it flows from a container when poured. Think of honey and water. Honey has a higher viscosity and flows more slowly than water.
Your vehicle owner's manual specifies the correct viscosity of oil to use in your engine. Sometimes, it'll specify a range of viscosities from which you can choose depending on weather. For example, it may recommend 10W-40 in warm weather and 0W-40 in cold weather.
The first number (the "10W" in 10W-40, for example) describes the oil's ability to flow in cold temperatures. It's helpful to think of the "W" as standing for "winter." The lower the oil's "W" viscosity, the more readily it will flow when it's cold.
The second number (the "40" in 10W-40) describes the oil's ability to flow at 100ºC (212ºF), or normal operating temperature. Higher numbers indicate the oil remains thicker when the engine is hot, which translates into better wear protection. A 0W-40 and a 10W-40 are the same viscosity when the engine reaches operating temperature, but the 0W-40 will flow better in cold weather.
Too low can invite wear
Using an oil that's too thin can compromise wear protection over time. The oil should adequately fill the clearances between engine parts to help prevent metal-to-metal contact.
The crankshaft journals, for example, ride on a thin layer of oil that forms between the journal and bearing surfaces. If the oil's too thin to properly fill the space and remain in place, the two surfaces will contact and wear out.
Extreme stress and heat add to the challenge. The oil's viscosity has a direct bearing on its ability to develop a lubricating film of sufficient thickness to keep parts from contacting. Since oil thins as it's heated, the already-too-thin oil becomes even thinner under extreme heat, worsening the problem.
Oil that’s too thin can also lead to insufficient oil pressure to properly support variable valve timing systems in newer engines. Low oil pressure may also result in the lifters not staying in contact with the cam lobes, causing noise and increased wear.
Too thick reduces fuel economy
Since higher viscosity oils offer better load-carrying ability, hence wear protection, you'd think using the highest viscosity oil possible would make sense.
Why not use 20W-50 in everything?
Thicker oil, for one, is tougher to pump throughout the engine, which reduces fuel economy. The oil also won’t reach vital components at startup as quickly as lower-viscosity oils, inviting wear.
In cold weather, oil that's too thick can hinder your engine's ability to start, straining your battery at best, and leaving you stranded at worst.
Overly thick oil doesn't transfer heat from engine parts as readily as thinner oils. Increased viscosity also increases internal friction, which increases operating temperatures. Higher temperatures cause oil to oxidize faster, or chemically break down. This eventually leads to sludge that, if bad enough, can block oil passages and starve the engine of oil, leading to engine failure.
To ensure best protection for your engine and to alleviate potential warranty concerns, it’s best to use the viscosity of motor oil recommended in your owner’s manual. If you have questions or concerns, contact AMSOIL Technical Services (tech@amsoil.com
My mechanic would specialized in European autos swears by the Pentosin 5W40 Synthetic High Performance. Not a cheap oil and I know he put this in Porsche, BMW, and Mini he services. We are in NJ and I think that's the reason for using 5W40.
Bet its this, its built into that top cover and sticks open and sucks oil into the turbo burns it off over time: We have the best price and free shipping. Bit issue on the N14 engines that we are seeing it happen on the N18 engine a little.
The viscosity of the oil when cold or at operating temps are just two points to consider. Whether the oil is formulated with high, medium, or low ash is very important, as is the ability to hold soot in suspension, resist dilution of gas (important in Direct Injection engines), neutralize acids, and resist shearing. The Shearing part is at least somewhat related to the viscosity spread of the two numbers...the xW then the following number xx. Example: a oil that is a 0W-40 will not be as shear stable as an oil rated 5W-40, which will not be as shear resistant as a 10W-40. This is because more Viscosity Index Improvers are likely to be in the 0W-40 than the other two examples. BUT, these are generalities. Much depends upon the characteristics of the base oil. Group III Synthetics require more VII than Polyalphaolefin (PAO) to reach the lower xW rating. There are several types of base oils, all with their own pros and cons. THEN, there are the Additives, which make or break the finished product's performance in a particular engine.
The best thing to do is to NOT play armchair Tribologist (engineers that specialize in lubrication technologies). Simply look in your owner's manual to find the recommended viscosity (which may vary depending upon the way you use your vehicle) and select an oil that has the SPECIFICALLY stated approvals. Example: SN, or SN+, or SP. IF there are ACEA specs such as C3 or C4, or LLFE17 or LL04 or whatever the specs are that your manual states, choose an oil with those specs as APPROVALs...don't be fooled by lawyerly wording such as, "meets or exceeds ACEA C3", make sure it has the ACEA C3 APPROVAL (if ACEA C3 is a Spec listed in your manual) with no qualifying statements attached.
For the more adventurous, you can take your chances by using oils that suggest they will work, and, they probably will. But, to those that don't know what they are looking for, simply use the oils that are Approved to the Specs in your manual.
Heres my take... my ' 2¢ "... my opinon, so please don't get too 'riled' up over it.
Its interesting the generalities specified in the consumer owners manual.... and the huge spread from 0W-30 to 5W-40 without any qualifying info or guidelines to the statements.
And hence... the myriad inquiries into oil like the topic of this thread. MINI provides ZERO info for conditions that would warrant the 4 quite different oils they callout in the owners manual posted above.
LL-01 BMW NOACK rating is around 10%, LL-04 around 13% and, there are many brands of oil that have both the LL rating AND much lower NOACK number.
10-13% NOACK numbers, in the world of todays oils, is kind of horrible if you want your GDI engine to give you less issues. (GDI= Gasoline Direct Injection)
This is a simplified version, but good description of oil for our cars today and can help 'beginners' understand what much of this 'whop-la' is all about.
https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Engine-Oil/
"NOACK: A grade for how much oil is lost due to evaporation. The thinner portions of oil evaporate first, leaving behind a thicker fluid. An oil that is more resistance to evaporation will hold up better at higher operating temps. The higher the number the more fluid is evaporating. Really high quality oil will have a low NOACK value.
These GDI engines suffer from Intake Valve Deposits (AKA IVD's) ... and the necessary, and hopefully corrective elements of Walnut Shell blasting in not only MINI engines but in BMW motors as well.
The importance of Low Noack #'s, for GDI engine oil..... the components of oil lost to evaporation will end up PCV system and intake system, contributing to intake tract deposits (gunk) and into IVD's and piston deposits.
Lower TEOST ratings are also a plus in these engines... Thermo-Oxidation Engine Oil Simulation Test (TEOST).... Measures deposit-forming tendencies.
In this regard, TEOST rating... most or all of the quality brands of PAO or PAO+Ester oils will have acceptable TEOST numbers ... with <10mg being a good target for optimal oils in these Turbo GDI engines.
0W oils (in any given brand of oil) have higher NOACK numbers than their 5W or 10W versions, which indicate evaporation or boil-off character of a given oil... higher NOACK and you have higher levels of boil-off and more IVD's. 0W-30 will have have more volatility (tendency to evaporate) than the same oil in a 5W-30 rating. And... contrary to many opinions on oil... with a given oil pressure and bearing-shell-to-crank-clearance.... a 0W/5W-40 motor oil will not 'protect' the engine any better than a 5W-30, if the 30 was correctly spec’d in the first place.
A 5W-30 will give less drain-off between starts than a 0W-30/40 ... and 5W-30 will give better protection at startup in normal ambient temps than the 0W. It would have to be significantly frigid weather, with top quality full synthetic oils, to need the 0W rating vs the 5W. For a given engine that is properly setup to run a -30 oil AND a -40 oil.... the -40 oil will have more frictional loss and pumping resistance than the -30 at normal operating temperatures.... also the -40 oil will run hotter in the engine because of these frictional and pumping-energy increases, which can possibly negate any increased protection you may feel you are getting from that higher weight oil.
And, unless something is really wrong, you run dirty oil, start up dry, or you are tracking the car and starving the oil pump in high lateral-G situations... main/rod bearing clearances really don't open up over life of motor as the journal should not be touching the shell... but rather riding on the oil film.... and any well set-up mini track-car should have pan baffles and an accusump anyway.
"Long life" oil change intervals are a poor idea in a car you plan to keep or drive to more than 50k.
IMO, change your oil & filter at 5k-miles or less... simply because you are getting any of the 'dirty oil' out of the engine AND... the oil that is left in the engine, even though supplemented as you 'top up' with some fresh oil... will not have all of the components of the oil left from evaporation... only SOME of the components of the oil evaporate and leave behind a "lesser blend" that can and probably will be chemically compromised to some level. The only way to tell for sure is to do VOA and UOA following at different intervals.... I just dont want to push it with any of my motors... and do changes with high quality oil that meets my needs at 4000-4500 miles (or sooner if it 'times out). **VOA (Virgin Oil Analysis) UOA (Used Oil Analysis)
As Mini-Titan points out above, a 5W-30 oil will be more shear-stable than the same oil at 5W-40, 0W-30, or 0W-40.
The the best of my knowledge...ALL R60's left the factory with 5W-30 Motor Oil.
Regardless of what brand of oil you prefer... or if you go by the LL rating spec for the engine... IMO, find the lowest NOACK rated oil among your choices that meet your criteria.
NOACK numbers below 8 are very doable across many brand offerings.... both with and without LL rating. You can minimize IVD's with better oil choices (Mini branded oils don't do well in this area). And remember... you are not just loosing a small ‘volime of’ oil to evaporation... you are losing 'components' of that oil... and the oil degrades over time even as you top up the oil.
Often times people with high oil consumption change out oils as recommended by another enthusiasts.... and miraculously they see less "oil burning".... often that 'new' oil has less evap. Oil burning comes from ring blowby entering the combustion chamber, leaking past the valve seals, turbo internal oil leaks... and... Evaporation of the oil with the ensuing passage of that vapor through the PCV system, onto the backside of the valves (IVD's) , into the combustion chamber (piston deposits) and into the exhaust system which can foul the catalyst over the long term.
On a higher mile, well worn engine... a higher viscosity oil can help with ring seal and may restore some power. (like 5W-40 compared to 5W-30)
Minimizing evap of oil is more important that a 'catch can system' in THIS engine unless your engine is really worn out or you are drag racing at the limit.
IMO, for THIS engine, a 7% NOACK oil will give better IVD-reduction than any catch-can system with 13% NOACK oil ... also IMO.... and a low NOACK oil probably will eliminate any need for a catch-can.... again on THIS engine.
Of course it goes without saying that the oil you choose should have decent SAPS numbers (cat protection) and good TBN #'s.
The factory has to meet CAFE regs for the car... and squeezing the efficiency of the engine within the normal warranty window is more important at a corporate decision level than maximizing life of the engine... and this dictates the oil specified by the mfg. The newer LL specs actually have a lower High temp/shear rating than the previous specs to make the engines 'test' better in terms of efficiency...and engine longevity is not as heavily weighed as the consumer of a 'fine german automobile' may believe.
Telling a bunch of MINI/BMW enthusiasts what oil to run is like telling a fashion model which shoes are best... a real time waster... but, you can make better decisions with some good basic understanding of a particular engines needs.
What I am saying is that you can make more optimal choices, even within the brand of oil or LL compliance you want.
Excellent oils can be had for reasonable $ ... and there are no 'good cheap oils' out there... Expect to pay $50 (or more) for good 5 qt jug of oil these days.
So YES... Chose a LL-01/04 oil if that is important to you (not the 'FE' for many reasons) .... YES, chose a recommended viscosity as outlined in your manual (I recommend the 5W-30 in all but extreme cold then run 0W-30 in sub-zero conditions )... and find a good FULLY synthetic , Group IV+V (PAO+Esther) that has NOACK rating in the 6-8% range... and you'll have an Ideal oil for your ride!
IMO.... Stay away from ANY diesel-oils or high ZDDP or high SAPS oil in this engine, higher SAPS and ZDDP oils will kill a ceramic catalytic converter in short order.
Lastly... considerations for Racing oil used in track cars, with tunes/cat-deletes etc.... is, by definition different than what you will need for everyday performance street driving in a daily driven, emissions controlled vehicle, and, most 'racing oils' are not designed for long term durability/stability.
Cheers and Happy Motoring !!
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Last edited by mountainhorse; 04-30-2023 at 09:39 AM.
Reason: Spelling and type o, clarifications
Or Ravenol DXG at 6% NOACK.... and good numbers....
There are other brands 5W-30 with good numbers and low NOACK as well ...
I use LiquiMoly oils in some of my other vehicles … though I was not able to find any of the LM oils I felt were appropriate for my GDI MINI, with LL01/04 ratings that are 8% or below (6% is my target) .. LM, good quality oils... but poor evaporation character... I think this is why many of the LM oiled cars DO have IVD issues (use LM but need walnut blast below 100k). Though they are low engine wear and low deposits if changed regularly … and there are a lot of fans of the brand… shops get great wholesale pricing on it as well hence their choice.
Changing oil more frequently will not diminish amounts of evaporation … or the resultant IVD’s or oil consumption due to evap loss…. And the resultant changing of the oil.
Only way to tell 100% is to start with a VOA … and follow ups with UOA (Virgin/Used Oil Analysis) from places like Blackstone.
Not needed though, in most cases, if you use a good oil with the right properties.
It is possible, with various brands, to have low evap AND ‘LL’ rating, appropriate SAPS/ZDDP numbers for our catalysts… and excellent TBN #’s 👍
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Last edited by mountainhorse; 01-22-2023 at 12:03 PM.
IMO...When you are considering what oil is best for your MINI...
Brand name is the LAST consideration you should be making.... as an extension of my long posts above. (too long for some by my PM's on it)
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2016 JCW R60 now at at 30k miles. Garage kept New England car.
I've been running Pennzoil Ultra Platinum full synth 5-30. NOACK is 6.5%
Any reason to switch?
I only drive this tuned R60 JCW 3k mile per year and I change oil once a year.
I'd appreciate your thoughts as I plan to keep this car until I die.
IMO...When you are considering what oil is best for your MINI...
Brand name is the LAST consideration you should be making.... as an extension of my long posts above. (too long for some by my PM's on it)
Honestly, it's not hard to skip or scroll. I truly appreciate the info, and wish I would've stumbled across something like this years ago. Full disclosure: I have yet to read from the start of the thread.
When I first got my used R60 at ~32k miles 3 years ago, the first thing I did was bring her in to a Euro shop to have all her fluids swapped. He used LiquiMoly. Up until the next oil change interval after that, as a daily driver ~90 mi/day, I was pleased to not have the notorious burn-off (minimal topping-off necessary, maybe 1/4 qt., if that). I was sold on LM, and have been using it since (although there may have been a couple dealership services in between), in fact I've got 5 qt jug waiting to be used staring at me as I type this..
I'm sure there are likely other variables, but as of late, now at around 73k miles I've joined the ranks and now permanently keep a quart in the boot, as it seems now I burn off a full quart or more between changes. I'm assuming IVD issues since I've only been changing by the car's clock, which it looks like I'm now kicking myself and plan to nip that. Besides walnut blasting, is there anything to mitigate? Do fuel additives/cleaners help until I can save and find a legit place to clean her out?
Your choice of fuel doesn't affect the intake valve deposits, because with Direct Injection, there is NO FUEL washing over the intake valves. Port injection does wash the back of the valves. Toyota uses a combination of Port and DI, and I think Honda has a slight delay of closing of the intake valves that allows from some back-flow across the valve which may wash the valve somewhat.
IF you have any carbon buildup on your rings to the point the rings are frozen in place and not rotating over time as they are supposed to do, removing this crud COULD help with consumption. Many ways to go about this, I prefer to use a high-ester high AN-containing (Alkylated Napthalene) oil. These provide extra cleaning over standard oils, and actually stopped oil consumption on a Honda Accord I have. I use this oil now on all my cars, including my 2020 JCW Countryman.
Honestly, it's not hard to skip or scroll. I truly appreciate the info, and wish I would've stumbled across something like this years ago. Full disclosure: I have yet to read from the start of the thread.
When I first got my used R60 at ~32k miles 3 years ago, the first thing I did was bring her in to a Euro shop to have all her fluids swapped. He used LiquiMoly. Up until the next oil change interval after that, as a daily driver ~90 mi/day, I was pleased to not have the notorious burn-off (minimal topping-off necessary, maybe 1/4 qt., if that). I was sold on LM, and have been using it since (although there may have been a couple dealership services in between), in fact I've got 5 qt jug waiting to be used staring at me as I type this..
I'm sure there are likely other variables, but as of late, now at around 73k miles I've joined the ranks and now permanently keep a quart in the boot, as it seems now I burn off a full quart or more between changes. I'm assuming IVD issues since I've only been changing by the car's clock, which it looks like I'm now kicking myself and plan to nip that. Besides walnut blasting, is there anything to mitigate? Do fuel additives/cleaners help until I can save and find a legit place to clean her out?
What year is your R60?
I had a 2011 S R60 burning a quart per tank of fuel by 60,000 miles. I sold it and got a 2016 JCW R60.
2011 to 2014.5 S models had serious oil burn problems. There's actually a couple ongoing class action lawsuits on the oil problems of N18 engines 2009-2014.5
I was told by an engine builder that the N18 pistons had ring and oil journal designs, prone to freezing and blow by, that were changed slightly for 2014.5 - 2016 (LCI)
The burn is due to too high factory oil change intervals, frozen rings, and too small oil return ports in the pistons that get clogged with dirty overheating oil and rings that freeze up, promoting blow by.
I was able to help my 2011 a bit with different oils and ring freeing techniques, but ultimately it was keeping the factory oil change intervals 0- 50,000 miles that killed it.
Ask me in 10 years how worth it 3k oil changes are.
I got my 2016 JCW R60 at 20k miles and it's now at 31k running like brand new. Even still has that brand new car smell and zero oil burn, but I do change my oil every 12 months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first. I am using full synth 5-30.
What year is your R60?
I had a 2011 S R60 burning a quart per tank of fuel by 60,000 miles. I sold it and got a 2016 JCW R60.
2011 to 2014.5 S models had serious oil burn problems. There's actually a couple ongoing class action lawsuits on the oil problems of N18 engines 2009-2014.5
I was told by an engine builder that the N18 pistons had ring and oil journal designs, prone to freezing and blow by, that were changed slightly for 2014.5 - 2016 (LCI)
The burn is due to too high factory oil change intervals, frozen rings, and too small oil return ports in the pistons that get clogged with dirty overheating oil and rings that freeze up, promoting blow by.
I was able to help my 2011 a bit with different oils and ring freeing techniques, but ultimately it was keeping the factory oil change intervals 0- 50,000 miles that killed it.
Ask me in 10 years how worth it 3k oil changes are.
I got my 2016 JCW R60 at 20k miles and it's now at 31k running like brand new. Even still has that brand new car smell and zero oil burn, but I do change my oil every 12 months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first. I am using full synth 5-30.
I have a 2015 R60 SAll4, daily driver.
I'm not sure if maybe a change in driving habits also have contributed. When I first got her, it was well into pandemic shutdown mode, so the roads were practically empty. I was an essential worker with a 45 mile commute (one-way), and in that part of CT, the only cars on the road at 5-6am were similarly-minded idiots like me who also had a hard time not enjoying miles of unenforced semi-curvy roads interspersed with long sweepers.
I've since been in Maine, the last two years. I see much much shorter daily trips (under 20 miles total, if that), which hardly ever see a redline, let alone the power band. And because deer share the road up here, I'd be lucky to see 70+mph once a month. I guess the plus side is I do see 27-29mpg much more often, surprisingly.
12-30-2017, 11:34 AM
