Why the car doesn't come with part that should work in winter?
 

I have Cooper S 2009 with 57K miles.

For the few last days the car had a rough start but it ALWAYS managed to start. I assumed that this might be because the throttle freezes up a little bit. Yesterday, I got a reduced engine power light on, but the engine succeeded to start! I assumed that this time the throttle was really frozen. I didn't want to take any chances, so I shut the engine off. Probably the engine light would have disappeared after a few minutes if I gave it time to warm up. Today, it was much more warmer and the engine has started without any engine lights. Anyway, I took it to dealership just in case to be on the safe side. I was right and the issue was that the throttle freezes. They told me that I need to replace my current intake manifold to the one the heats the throttle. So, I have a few questions:

1. If the car still success to start, I don't need to replace anything, right? I just need to give it a few minutes and that's all, right? It won't damage anything, right? The worst case is that the throttle may freeze so bad that the car won't start until it unfreezes, right?
2. It doesn't make any logic that I need to replace a part in my car, that suppose to work in the winter in theory, but doesn't in reallity, to some other part that is designed for winter. Why MINI installed this part and not the part that supposed to work in winter? Why I need to pay for the replacement and not MINI?

Intake is usually around $350 We see this with the Canada and far north cars get it. But when its gets really cold down in the US. Then i pops up.


11614584240 Cold Climate intake manifold.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...different.html

Intake Manifold Part # 11614584240 $316.30


http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/11614584240/

http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/493936_x600.jpg


https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d-weather.html

Was this part installed on some cars from the factory? I seem to recall getting a cold weather option package on my car, including heated seats, etc. I wonder if the cold weather manifold was part of the package.

ECSTuning, thanks for the links, but can you answer to my 2 question please?

cjny, I do have heated seats, does it mean the I also should have cold weather manifold? How I can check if the car should come with "cold weather manifold"?

Here's the story that I learned very shortly after I bought my 2007 MCS. I had the car about a month and took it up to Stowe VT to do some skiing. To my surprise it was hard to start the next morning and it was running on only 2 cylinders. I shut it off and waited a few minutes after which I tried restarting it. Ran fine. When I got back home I talked to the dealer who tolded me MINI had heard of the problem but didn't know the cause. Because I had no more problems that winter, it was a year later and I had the problem again that I heard about the cause and fix. The cause was moisture from the engine collecting in the intake and freezing into an ice block. The fix was a redesigned intake. Now, at the time, this only affected a small number of MINIs that lived in the really cold areas, like the Northeast here. My understanding is that first year MINI really didn't believe there was a problem because there were so few reported problems. However the next winter was really cold here and I was told there were a thousand MINIs in various dealer looking for a fix. That seemed to motivate MINI into coming up with a fix.

It sounds like you have a leftover warm weather intake that MINI put in at the risk that they would not have to deal with it and they could clear out their inventory of those things. I am not aware that it causes a particular problem if you just leave it and put up with it. Like I said, I found turning off the engine and re-starting it after a few minute wait seemed to be enough to clear it out until the next time. The best option, though, is to install the updated intake.

Hope this helps.

Eddie07S, how I can know if I had a cold-weather or a warm-weather intake? Is there any way to know via VIN number or I need to ask the dealer to keep the intake and give me?
The other question, if I discover that I had a warm-weather intake, doesn't it mean that MINI MUST replace it for FREE since it should have been installed a cold-weather intake in first place?

I find it interesting how the story on this problem morphs from dealer to dealer...

There are other threads on this subject. If I remember correctly from those threads (sorry I don't have a link), the only way to tell for sure is the part number on your intake. But if you are having the icing problem and the dealer has already told you that you need the replacement intake, I would bet you have the warm weather one. I think, based on what you have already been told, that you already have the answer to that question. Mine was done under warrantee so I didn't have to fight for one. Because yours is out of warrantee, they will probably first tell you that it is "yours" to fix because it is out of warrantee. But I would push back on them because it is a known design flaw, not a part that has worn out, they shouldn't have put it on in the first place and that it is their obligation to replace it. They might counter with a "you buy the part, we'll install it for free" compromise. If the dealer isn't willing to fight for you, then you can also go through MINI USA and push on them to tell the dealer to fix it for free, It all depends on how much effort you want to put into this. I have a friend who pushed on MINI USA to cover the cost of replacing the engine on his JCW when it failed because of a known issue of bad bearings in the turbo they used in that car. This was after a dealer said that the warrentee was voided because of suspension mods he made (nothing to do with the engine). Some dealers are a pain this way; others are supportive of their customers.

If you don't have a written diagnosis from the dealer who told you what needed to be replaced, I would first get that and then I would give them the "opportunity" (nicely explained that you know about this problem) to do the replacement for free. If that doesn't work, I would ask them how to contact the appropriate people with MINI USA and go from there. One note - I would not get any work done until you have a satisfactory response. Once you have paid for a change, you own it and it will be harder to get reimbursed for your expense.

Hope this helps and that it works out for you.

Sorry, missed one of your questions...
As to "must replace it" - I think MINI works on the idea of "what is the least they have to do". I have good luck with my dealer fixing my car's issues; I know of people who have real problems getting things done. Sorry, wish I had a better answer.

Eddie, they told me that it would cost me $470 - the part cost $72 and the rest is for the labor of 2.5 hours. I sent them bunch of links, to different forums, that show, that many people have complained about this issue and its a known issue. The dealership called me back and told me that he still cannot do it for free, since MINI doesn't acknowledge this as a "known issue". But, after an hour, he called me back and told me that as a good will the dealership will pay 50%. I tried to explain him again that MINI should have installed the correct manifold from the beginning, but he told me that he didn't design the car and blah blah. Eventually I agreed to 50-50 deal, since I need the car. But, I'll still try to find a lawyer that deals with those kind of things. But, I cannot find one:(

They will probably fix tomorrow. Do you suggest to not pay and contact MINI USA? I just know that in MINI USA it will take a week until they call and do something.

50/50 is not a bad resolution especially since it was a reasonable quote and not something artificially inflated. It will cost you less than $250 out the door.

To get the rest covered may not be worth the effort of getting a lawyer. I would get the car fixed but also would stay on MINI-USA. They might reimburse you or give you credit for future expenses.

This was a fix for cold climate cars, I think this was not factory at first until a little later in the Gen2 MINIs in Canada. I have seen these on Canadian cars. Not too many on the US side have this unless they are in the extreme north and is was a service fix, see that link on the TSB. So a solution to cold weather throttle issuse. Not a stock part at first.

Easy way to tel if you have it or updated is to look at you engine bay, If you see that tube section right near the valve cover that goes directly to the intake , you have it, if not you have the other intake manifold.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...b86301e315.jpg

This is the only picture that I have. Can you tell from it?
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...0b58412e33.jpg

Nope , it does not have it. You can tell by the back PCV hose line on the passenger side. You have the stock hose.

Some people have gotten by the short extreme cold weather by cleaning out the intake manifold / throttle body and the oily / moisture filled gunk to buy some time, seems like it takes some time for build up, that's why I seen it on older year MINIs. That have not had the carbon blasting on the intake port of the head, which then you clean off the throttle body and intake with a rag while you are down there. Then once it warms up, you don't have that issue anymore anyway. If you are far north I would be good to just get the revised intake.

Anyway, I'm not going to use a lawyer on the dealership where I'm repairing the manifold, since they are really good guys. I thought to try on MINI itself. But, I'll try to talk MINI USA first like you suggested.

Let's say I wouldn't have fixed it, if I would leave the car running for a few minutes the reduced power light would turn off, right? If the throttle would freeze really hard and I wouldn't be able to start the car I can just wait until it unfreezes and that's all, right? No damage to the car, right?

Its just an ice thing, once it melts, It works, unless its really caked on.

Many thanks, ECSTuning! You are always a font of practical knowledge.

Looks like I have the warm weather manifold as well. My car usually spends the night in a garage so the issue has bitten me only once but I have decided to switch to the cold-weather part anyway. It's a good excuse to take a look at the build-up on the intake valves anyway, something I have been wanting to do for a while now.

One more question for folks who have removed their intake: The Bentley manual ends the manifold install instructions with "Remember to replace all seals". i presume this refers to the gaskets that seem to be included with the replacement part:

https://c1552172.ssl.cf0.rackcdn.com/494070_x800.jpg

Any other suggestions as to what this means?

The car will start if there is ice in the intake, it will be reluctant to do so, but if let sit for 5-10 minutes it should have warmed up enough for the throttle body to move through it's motions. You will have stored codes, a CEL illuminated, but it will run.

I've still seen one or two cars have ice issues even with the cold weather manifold, but it does cut down on the issue considerably.

There are only 4 gaskets to replace when removing the intake manifold and those are the single intake port gaskets, which the intake comes with.

Thank you sooo much. Made my day. :thumbsup:

Yes,, those seals come with it and are replaced for a tight seal. The old gaskets can seat a little flat and then when reinstalled , you could get a leak. Its just common practice.

My experience was that it would start but it needed to be turned off after a few minutes of running, let sit for a couple of minutes and then restarted. For some reason mine seem to need that few minutes of not running to clear things out and it would let it run right.

A ScanGageII will clear codes for you if you get them.

OP - Hope it goes well with MINI USA. Let us know the outcome.

Yup, let the car run long enough to heat up and free the throttle body, shut it off so the limp mode resets, and it should drive fine. If not, wash rinse repeat.

Eddie, I got my car yesterday and I had to pay only $140. They said something about internal administrative stuff that ended with $140. I'm really happy with Patrick Mini in Schaumburg, IL. But, it really makes me angry when I think about people who don't have time to do a research and find out the this is cars' manufacture fault and they pay eventually the full price. It's very important to learn everything about the problem before going to any repair shop.

I think I'm still going to talk with MINI USA out of justice, since I know that I didn't have to pay a penny.

:thumbsup:

Glad it has worked out for you.

And glad you have a good dealer near you. I do a lot with my dealer as they are reasonable with me and I don't have a good indi shop to go to that specializes in MINI.

Our 2010 started this last month when my wife's schedule changed at work and she would get off work sometimes around 1:30AM. The nights when she had the hard start the temps were in the 10-15 degree range. The car was parked at the airport parking lot. She told me it was like it wasn't getting gas, but after several attempts it would start and then run fine. Never had any codes. Now I have a good idea what the problem is and will discuss with my local dealer and see what they have to say. Thanks for the information.

After doing some research it seems like some Mini do come with a
(Cold Climate Version) But just because you have the mini (cold weather package) doesn't mean you automatically have the ( Cold climate version ) I found this out by check about 20 mini vin at ( bimmer.work ) vin decoder and noticing that even if the mini didn't have the cold weather package it showed they did have a cold climate version and vice versa...
it's very odd but if you're curious just de code your vin and find out for yourself.