Failed Turbo on 2009
 

Hello everyone, I apologize in advance if this is in the wrong place or what. I had a question for some Mini know it alls. I recently took my Mini into the dealership for a sluggish engine operation that was accompanied by the reduced power CEL. They told me that they suspected my waste gate was bad and that they would replace it and do an extended road test. The waste gate did not fix it. I asked why they changed that and they stated that the CEL was for a vacuum leak that they could not find with a smoke check. I guess going to the turbo is the first step. At any rate, they called and said that the turbo had failed....or at least they thought it had because of slow waste gate operation. They also stated that they could not hear the cold start know that occurs every morning, I asked them to check that as well. In addition to these things they also performed the aux water pump recall. Is there any possible way that this water pump could be related to my turbo going out at 70,000 miles....I change the oil every 4-7K miles and make sure it is ALWAYS full. I am trying to see if I have a fight for them to replace it due to other shotty Mini parts/engineering. Any help would be fantastic.

Is your turbo hitting boost? Any shaft play? Have you been losing oil/

Follow up
 

No excessive oil loss aside from normal Mini standards. The boost felt fine even after the light came on. It was a very brief power loss that occured at pretty low rpm. I havent been able to check shaft play but everything sounded great. No indication of anything going bad.

A bit more in depth
 

When the power loss happened, it was very brief and at fairly low RPM. I would not imagine that the turbo was really contributing to performance at all.

So they replaced your turbo but it didn't fix the issue? If so it sounds like they bought a turbo. Waste gate operation isn't difficult to test so im not understanding the "I think that's the issue" unless this repair was done under warranty it sounds like they have an issue.

Turbo
 

The turbo has not been replaced yet. She called me and informed me that it had failed. I asked her specifically why they had come to that conclusion, especially as they were troubleshooting a vacuum leak, she could give me almost no technical information for a potential $3900 repair. She basically said that was just the next step in trying to figure it out.

Attachment 156069

Noting that the R56 turbo parts breakout available to MINI does not show the waste gate as a replacable part I HIGHLY doubt that they replaced it.

At this point I feel that anything they tell you is suspect.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sty4ux8np3...bo%20Parts.pdf

Wow
 

Yeah, she sure told me that the waste gate had been replaced and they took it on an extended road test. She even gave me a $495 quote for the removal and installation of the waste gate.....I feel like someone over there must not have an idea of what they are doing.

I will follow up with my MINI dealer but pretty sure that's not a repair they do. My old turbo is off at G-Pop Shop right now getting that very repair, along with a few other tweaks.

It also pisses me off that they assume I will pay for this without even having a technical backing as to exactly how and why my turbo went out. If it did in fact go out, is it possible that the aux pump played into it? Also, wouldn't there be an associated turbo fault code? When I dropped it off the turbo sounded juuuuust great, had good boost, could even hear that the waste gate was doing it's job as it has done for the past year and a half.....all of a sudded my turbo is out?

The aux pump failure was actually attributing to engine bay fires. The code my MINI was giving was the boost plausibility error code. MINI has to read this code as the standard OBD2 reader will not read it.

Ask them how they arrived at that conclusion. My turbo failed at around 80K miles but 50K miles were very hard miles as my MINI is tuned and pushing 20 PSIg for boost. I also driving it most days like I stole it, or it owes me money.

My $.02.

Boost pressure doesn't build up until something like 3000-3500 RPMs so I am confused by your statement of this being a low rpm issue.

In order to replace the turbo, you really need to put the car in service mode because you have to remove the heat shields and the catalytic converter. Book rate is about 5.5 hours of labor to get the turbo off the car. However, you can replace the waste gate actuator (little shiny bar with a tin can and a vacuum hose connected to it) on the bottom side of the turbo without all of the above labor. Still, I would think they would try easier items before going to that.

I am wrapping up my own turbo replacement so maybe I can help. My car was coding a 2885 error which is "Boost Pressure Control Deviation, plausibility". This error can be caused by a bunch of items such as vacuum lines, vacuum pump, Blow off valve, pressure/temp sensors, MAP sensors, Waste gate, waste gate actuator, and turbo, etc.

My dealer tested and replaced all the items but the turbo as part of the diags. None fixed the issue. That pointed to the turbo. Because of the cost I decided to tackle this myself.

Now even though MINI does not show the waste gate as a replaceable part, you can buy the exhaust housing 1/2 of the turbo which includes a new waste gate for less than $200. You can also buy a waste gate actuator for about $50.

I used a flexible snake camera to inspect the waste gate thru the O2 sensor hole in the top of the catalytic converter. I could tell that the waste gate was bad by how it operated. However, once I tore the turbo apart to mount the new exhaust housing I found more problems;
The turbo housing to exhaust manifold was cracked.
The turbine seals on the exhaust side of the turbo showed oil seepage from the turbine cartridge showing that the entire turbo was in need of replacement or rebuilding.

I opted to order a replacement.

Hope this helps.

Looks like we took similair paths in replacing the turbo. All sensors, all piping, 22.5 PSIg pressure check, etc........

Thank you guys for the great information. Yeah, I was probably at about 2800 to 3000 RPM when the short power loss happened. Their lack of ability to tell me in technical terms why this is happening is really upsetting me. I drive my Mini in a very conservative way and have done nothing to the engine or anything like that. It is just a simple daily driver. I really don't think a turbo should be going out like this. I do not think they have put a very large effort into resolution. I think at this point it is just easier for them to say that and have be just accept it. The fault code was supposed to be for a vacuum leak, how the hell has this conclusion been reached? I did hear a slight squeek around the thermostat housing area about two weeks ago. It has since subsided. It was not the type of oscillation you would get from something that rotated....it really sounded like a leak....hence why I was shoving my hands around trying to find a loose connection. It was nowhere near the turbo area....I made the mistake of telling Mini that I had heard that sound and she immediately told me that my issues were turbo related. Is there some way that they have this idea in their heads and now they are stuck on it?

At this point it feels like they are just doing it because it is an easier route than troubleshooting it.

The reason I had asked about the aux pump was because it is my understanding that it will run for a period of time after the car has been shut off to cool it down. I have never heard anything run on my car after shutdown.....could this have led to premature failure.

You have to listen well for the pump noise; it's easy to miss. It's possible on the aux pump failure but again, that recall wasn't for failing pumps, it was a fire hazzard.

while you might not hear the water pump, you should hear the fan running after shutting off, unless you just drove around the block. Esp here in San Antonio, mine runs for several minutes after turning the car off.

I also noticed that there was some slight melting on my hood scoop....any connection?

I do hear the fan from time to time but I have been pretty keen to try and hear the pump doing any work....Never heard it but also only listened after about four good drives.

that happens if you don't have the hood heat shield installed. Mine has that as well.

Wait, melting, or warping?

Just some good warping. I am just a bit taken back by this failing so early. I mean, don't they even have service bulletins out for obstructed oil feed lines that are causing the turbos to burn out? Seems like a whole hell of a lot of engineering has been done after the fact.

So the dealership contacted me and informed me that the reason they need to change the turbo is due to a sluggish waste gate. I am not terribly car savvy here but it does not seem like they are doing anything to avoid this. Could it be my diverter valve?

Here is a video of my wastegate. This is completely broken yet it opens and closes. However it opens to far and the seal is weak. The lid is in 2 parts but it should function as one, and you can see that it doesn't. This turbo had 100,000 miles on it, but a huge amount of those miles were done on the highway, so little to no boost. The turbo was just along for the ride.


I would ask them to show you the test plan recommended from MINIUSA for your symptom. Throwing darts at the wall is not appropriate.

Have them tell you what codes you car is throwing and post them here. This can be helpful if we have seen this before. Be warned there can be many causes for a single code in MINI lingo. On my service order it stated exactly what tests they did and what the result was. They started with vac lines, then vac pump, sensor, BOV, etc until they got to turbo and I said stop.

You have the responsibility to define for them the condition that you are seeing. Don't read into things that are not there or things that you think should be associated to it. (auxiliary water pump may have nothing to do with what you are experiencing as an example.)

If you want to do a little work on your own here are some cheap things you can do.

• Spend about $15-20 and get a Bluetooth OBDII dongle off Amazon.
• Use an Android device and get Torque App
• Use the 2 above to get real time feed data of your boost that you can log and share with dealer
• Take the car for a drive. Push the throttle to the floor and see what happens to boost. If your waste gate is failing then you will see, feel, and hear the boost fall off somewhere around 5th or 6th gear while accelerating hard.
• Spend $40 bucks on a flexible snake USB camera. Hook it to laptop and feed it thru hole where O2 sensor is on top. You can see the wastegate from there. Use a hand vacuum pump on the waste gate actuator to see if the gate closes, at what reading, and does it remain closed.

The reason you really need the test plan is because there are some cheap things that can cause the waste gate to not work correctly. For example, the vacuum line connected to the actuator. If it is weak and is collapsing or if it is bulging it will affect how the actuator closes and opens the gate. The default is for the waste gate to be opened so it is closed with vacuum and held closed by vacuum.

The vacuum line and pump can be tested out of loop by using a manual vacuum pump and closing the gate and run the car. If the gate holds it sounds like this might be a fault elsewhere in the system. An experienced tech should know how to do this.

Having just gone thru this I do know what it feels like and how expensive the repair can be especially thru the dealer. If you are out of warranty, look for a qualified MINI tech shop in your area. If you don't know one, tell us where you are located, we just might know someone close to you. Indy shops will be cheaper labor rates than the dealer.

Also, there are other turbos to buy that are not MINI OEM. Besides, the MINI OEM turbo is a Borg Warner K03. You can buy new or rebuilt ones online. (Not Ebay. Too many junk items in my opinion).

Before this happened to me I was not a big DIY tech. But I am not going to pay the dealer $3-4K to bolt on a new turbo. I educated myself and got dirty.

Thank you
 

I want to extend a very gracious thank you for the information you have given me. I was struggling to cope with paying that much for a car that I drive like a baby. I am too keen with my maintenance schedule and whatnot to accept their shotty diagnosis. There was one thing that came to mind regarding their diagnosis of the Vacuum leak fault code. So about three weeks ago I was parking, after taking the car out of reverse to curb my wheels the brakes went limp. They still stopped the car but had to be pushed to the floor. I cycled them a few times and they stayed that way. I decided to take it around the block and see what the hell was going on and they just kind of popped back into normal operation. So, earlier in the day that I got my reduced power light I was stopped at a stop light and felt my foot on the brake just glide to the floor. When I left work prior to the light coming on, the brakes were operating pretty normal, by pretty normal I mean that they were slightly degraded. Could the vacuum pump that controls the brake boost also be related to the pump that powers the waste gate?