MINI JCW's: Car&Driver Cover SEP&OCT..But...
 

Sep issue cover photo and story on JCW Coupe. Oct cover photo JCW Hatch (barely visible) but there. I guess the reason we don't get to see more of it is because it finished 5th out of the 6 cars that were rated. Was only able to outperform The VW GTI.:sad:

I was a little disappointed--but I still love my JCW. Wouldn't trade it for any of the 5 other cars evaluated. Hey, we can still brag about going through twisties:wink:. Nick

I wonder if their JCW had the JCW suspension?

Not having read the article (I gave up on them years ago), am wondering what criterion were used.
IIRC, most categories used in these comparisons were objective and there would be one purely subjective measure that would often skew the results.
May have to look online for the article.
On second thought, I’m happy in my ignorance.

So what were the other five cars?

.... and in what order?

Just curious. I can’t think of 5 other cars that perform better (all around... performance and handling)

Mark

Got my copy this week. Other cars were Mustang GT (Had fastest Lap time around road course) Mazda Miata and a Mitsubishi Evo and 370 Z.. Order of finish 1. Evo, 2. Miata, 3. Mustang, 4. 370Z 5. JCW, 6. GTI

Note bottom two cars were the only FWD cars in the bunch.

Tell them to get Helen Keller out of the driver's seat. Seriously, a mustang and 370 had faster lap times? The miata isn't a faster car as far as HP but probably faster in the turns.

I'm surprised with the results. Other than the Evo, I wouldn't take any of those other cars.

Mark

The article was about best handling cars under $40K. They actually used a data gathering company to collect data and give them the performance metrics of each vehicle. The MINI JCW was stock, so no on the JCW suspension, but it actually had one of the best damping and body-roll scores. It lost points for the bump-steer and tendency for the car to move all over when you hit a mid-corner bump. I think a big issue (which wasn't mentioned) was the ever-wonderful run-flats.

Maybe I'm biased, but I've had a chance to drive all 6 of those cars, and I think the EVO is the only one that even comes close to the JCW.

Thing that amazed me was according to them the JCW was next to last in Fun To Drive Factor. The 370Z being least fun to drive and Evo Miata and Mustang being most fun to drive.

I have had four MINI's (and now on second factory JCW) so I am obviously a fan....but not a fanboi. FWD cars will never do better on standard tests of handling, i.e. skidpad/slaloms, compared to RWD and AWD cars. The MINI's "go kart handling" reputation chiefly rests in my mind on its relatively light weight, decent OEM suspension/geometry, and good steering feel. Lose the runflats and you have an incredibly fun to drive, hoonism provoking hot hatchback. Ultimate handler? No.
Note all of the cars they tested are as they come off the showroom floor. If the factory JCW came with JCW suspension and non-RF performance tires, then they would have been included (but it still wouldn't have done better lap times than cars with twice the horsepower.)

If I read a car mag its only Road and Track now or the Top Gear mag when I can get one.

There is necessarily going to be (when comparing 5 cars with such diversity in power, power transfer dynamics, weight, and so on) some "apples to oranges" going on. They made the comparison test even less meaningful by testing 2 of the cars ( Mustang and Nissan ) with optional brakes, tires or sport package. The Mustang had LSD as standard equipment, I believe. I'm not trying to fault the hi-tech Cayman Dynamics or even the test driver's subjective opinions. The tests would have been a lot more helpful to prospective buyers if ALL the cars were tested without any optional handling/breaking options, or if they ALL were equipped with whatever handling/braking options were available. To include the JCW, in this test, without the optional handling package really muddies up the water. You would also expect the "experts" at C&D to try to level up the playing field by substituting good high performance non-RF's on the Mini (which I believe to be the only vehicle with standard RF's). It all seems a bit "rubbishy".

In general, FWD vehicles are not going to fair as well as RWD vehicles when it comes tests such as these, especially ones with such short wheelbases. While I love my MCS, the skittishness it exhiibits on rough/bumpy pavement especially in turns is a little offputting, with the rear end jumping around the way that it does. I am not sure what suspension mode would correct that. I believe it is one byproduct of the very short wheelbase. Certainly tires can make a big difference and the run flats don't help the MINI.

No, I don't expect them to do that. For a fair comparison, reviewers have a duty to NOT level the playing field. The point is to compare stock cars that might come off the dealers lot. If they put non-RFs on the MINI, then they should also upgrade the tires on all the other cars. The review is not about what aftermarket equipment you can put on the car.

Just my 2 cents: MINIs are specialty/niche cars. They are neither pure performance machines, nor 0-personality cars. They are high on style, luxury, thoughtfulness and the fun-to-drive factor. I really think they'd have to switch over to RWD or have a more powerful AWD setup in order to really compete.

I'd rather have a MINI than all of the rest of those cars except for perhaps a GTI, because I want a car that can do everything well: style, versatility, likability, economy and fun-factor. That the JCW Coupe isn't #1 isn't really a big deal to me. There really isn't another brand out there like the MINI brand that can match all of my criteria. :)

rkw, I'm willing to concede your opinion on the tire issue. Having said that, I agree also that it is entirely appropriate for C&D to accept a car "off the rack" from whatever manufacturer for individual road testing. However, for a comparison test with the specific intent to evaluate handling, all of the cars should be equipped with whatever optional factory handling upgrade is available or none of them should. I respect your opinion, just restating my $0.02 worth.

Best regards,
Mark

I think it was titled "best handling car under $40,000" the evo is AWD...JCW isnt... (comparing apples to oranges) im suprised about the 370 though.4th? it seems like it would handle nice with a good amount of power. but the Miata???...Really? Atlest we beat VW!! :)

Hey I have a NC Miata. They are great cars. This isn't the only test they've scored highly in. Motor Trend did a "Best Driver's Car" article and the current Miata beat out some pretty fierce competition.

Handles great, dead nuts reliable and can take a beating. They are the quintessential car for "drive it to the track, race all day and then drive it home."

Typically, a magazine puts in a call to the various manufacturers and tells them they want "x" car for a test. It is the car companies themselves that decide how those cars should be delivered to the scribes.
In my opinion, adding the JCW or sport suspensions would not have mattered. FWD and lack of horsepower were the JCW's bane in this particular comparison.

Still curious if this JCW had the JCW suspension - from what I've read, that lift off over-steer is not present to the extent as described in the article with the standard or sport suspension.

Agreed, RWD and HP are the real differences here.

Maybe when/if MINI unveils the AWD Paceman (2013?) the car/brand may be able to improve its rank within this group.

I'm not surprised about the Mustang at all. I'm actually surprised it didn't win. Considering it will literally sit on an M3s rear bumper on any course you put them on, the fastest lap is right. Where was it marked down?

Ditch the run flats, then retest!
It's like night & day...

Look at EVO from the uk. Best car mag money can buy.

Having done both track days and autocross in a Mini S with a slightly modified suspension, I can tell you that the Miata deserves the ranking it go...I have seen street stock Miatas (on R-comps) romp over may a mightier car as well as my S. They may not have the top end, but they do have the handling. On the other hand, I have stayed with many a 3-series (including Ms) on a track with a lot of turns. I think the Mini does really well but it loses with the RWD and the relentless "push" at the limits. On the other hand, that does make it a little harder to get into trouble when approaching the limits. But when you take the car as a whole...the room, comfort, gas milage, the fun, 4 season drivable, mod-ability, handling, etc it is hard to beat...even the mighty Miata needs a trailer to bring tires to an autocross...I can stick 4 tires/wheels in the back of my Mini and have room left over for tools and and ice chest...

Last note - the Car and Driver said that it was quite an accomplishment for either of the RWD cars to even be in that comparison. No matter what you think, all of the other cars started out with the advantage of be at least RWD. So, in a way they acknowledged that these cars are the best in their own right.