Hello

I'm brand new to Mini Coopers, I was actually on a list to buy one of the first ones in the northeast but found out that the S model wouldn't be out for at least 6 months...

I test drove my first Mini Cooper Clubman today!

I loved it, everything just fit me like a glove, the seating/ergonomics of everything was like it was made for me, now I just need to find the right used one, preferably with a warranty!

I want the extra horsepower for obvious reasons, but it seems like a lot of the problems are turbo related

So looking at used Minis are there any tips specific to look for on an S model?

Thank you

Matthew

 

Get the newest one within your budget. Look for the N18 engine.

I love my 2012 Clubman S. Small, sporty, practical... If I was in the market for another one, I would try to find a later model JCW with the N18 engine and aero package.

 

The Gen2 folks will chime in if I am incorrect, but in 2011 Mini did a "facelift" where the exterior and interior was tweaked along with the N18 engine. The below link will take you to an article.

MotoringFile Archive MF Exclusive: 2011 MINI Refresh Revealed (New Colors & a New Look)

 

If going used, the N18 engine is the one to look for. Less issues with those engines than the N14.

As for "S" or no "S", the turbo is a LOT of fun. That being said, you will need to be more focused on oil consumption with one. For that reason, there can be more problems with an "S". That's been my experience with the N14 engine at least.

However, as long as you check your oil regularly every 5,000 miles and add when needed (because of the turbo) most of those problems can be avoided.

 

Always S. Yes more maintenance is needed, but without a doubt they're a better car overall.

Also way better resale value later, as Justa models drop off way faster and harder than S models do (at least here in the PNW)

 

I hope you meant change the oil every 5,000 miles. The oil should be checked at least weekly. A lot of oil can disappear in 5K miles.

 

JCW or S for tons of headaches- oil consumption (depends on engine breakin, can be 1K-5K), oil leaks (turbo seals, valve covers, etc), engine buildup due to the direct injection (BMW can do a walnut shell cleaning which removes the build up), chain tensioners breaking due to poor designs regardless of pre or post 2011 engines (plastic or metal guides, just crappy designs), thermostat, brakes.

Non S, aka Justa, for minimal headaches- direct injection wires for the sparkplugs (55-65K), thermostat (40-50K), brakes (they wear out every 35-45K).

Highly recommend getting a CPO Next MINI if you can get em cuz it comes with the extra 2 years warranty. Get the 2011 or later models for less issues.

Been pretty happy with our 2011 Clubman Justa (non-S), just as fast once it's going as the S, but you need to drive it manual either in an auto or manual transmission. Justa does require the engine to be spooled close to redline to get the most out of it (5-7K RPM powerband). Another bonus is you actually have a spare tire, unlike the S which comes with the heavy runflats; replace those asap with real tires and keep a can of slime seal.

 

Let me throw some mechanic sense into these issues (work on these fairly often at the shop I work at, and own two of the "problem years".

Oil Consumption: Comes from aggressive driving, because it's difficult to drive a JCW or S any other way. Consuming 1qt over 1k miles is common in many cars, it just looks so shocking on the Coopers as the total fill capacity is around 4.5qts, and anything lower than 3qts puts you at risk of losing oil pressure during hard cornering and extreme hills.

Oil leaks: The Justa is just as bad. Valve cover gasket leaks are the typical BMW product "oh you've driven 20k miles? Time to turn that rubber gasket into plastic and shove this oil right outta here!". The only real additional oil leak issue is the turbo feed line, which if it leaked when your JCW or S was younger it was covered by MINI/BMW, but if it's leaking around 100k or so...well it's at the end of its service life. Mine is starting to seep oil on the Clubman @71k. Well it's a pain to do but it's a 9yr old car (late 2008 build date), so it's been through quite a lot.

Carbon Buildup: Yup, totally a problem, will agree there. But an extra $600 every 50k-60k equals out to $0.012 to $0.010 a mile. It'd say in the grand scheme of things that is quite the small price for a car with that capability (seriously, N/A Coopers are painfully slow).

Chain Design: Revision 3 of the chain tensioner and guide assemblies are perfectly fine. The main issue is with the oil consumption issue listed above that is 99% driver caused. Once the oil level is low enough, the chain tensioner can lose pressure which allows the chain to slap against the guides, causing them to break. Plastic guides have been used in engines for decades, and very few motors have had the guides been the actual cause of the issues. The upper guide on the N1x motors is the weak point as that is where the chain will slap first once the oil pressure drop hits the timing chain.

T-Stat: Yup, garbage unit, but also garbage on the Justas. I've replaced many on both.

Brakes: Literally does not cost more to do brakes on a JCW or S (provided you don't opt for the big Brembo package, but if you have money for that you should have money for the pricey pads!)

Before working on them frequently, and before owning multiple models to examine the problems first hand, I would have agreed that on the face value that N1x model MINIs are terrible and worse in JCW/S form. But now? While yes they all have some flaws, the Justa is no better than the JCW/S models. All issues outside the commonly shared issues have been caused by lack of owner maintenance. Check your oil, use the correct oil, turn your music down and listen to your car, and drive with restraint. I personally burn through oil on my cars, but I've seen an 07 Cooper S with 150k+ with only 1 thermostat replacement, 1x water pump replacement (plastic failed), and the timing chain tensioner updated (did not fail, just covered by BMW). Hasn't missed a beat and 07 is one of the "tainted years".

Also, the S can have a spare tire. BMW makes the kit for it. Though the hate for "heavy runflats" I don't believe warranted. I run Bridgestone Driveguards on the R55, and we run Continental DW on the R56. Believe it or not, the R55 has a more comfortable ride. Both have the sport suspension as well, and the same 17" wheels. The hatred comes from the old factory fit Bridgestone RE050 runflats that were phased out years ago, which were terrible in comfort and handling. Many advances have been made in the past 5 years on runflats and should not just be discarded as such

 

Being a previous out of warranty owner of an E46 ZHP, the MINI cost under warranty is nothing compared to what is standard maintenance on that car. However, the MINI out of warranty in JCW or S form is more expensive to maintain compared to the Justa. Trying to justify more expensive maintenance costs on a JCW/S vs a lower to maintain Justa is not really helping, especially if you're trying to rub it off as reasonable on a per mileage basis.

Plus rubbing a Justa, as painfully slow, with a momentum car, shows how limited your driving skill and ability is. There's a good reason why slow Miata's are well respected on the track because they don't catch Corvette's with crappy drivers in a straight line, it's in the corners with momentum, driving skill and braking that count. If you want a fast straight line car, go get a Corvette, best all around performer, otherwise put more seat time on the track or auto-x; goes a long way.

Anyways, back to the main point of this thread, if you want more things to maintain with a faster car in a straight line, get a JCW or S. If you want a car with less to maintain and is not fast on a straight line, get a Justa. Both are just as fast in the corner with a competent driver and good upgrades to tires + brakes + suspension.


A pair of Micheline PSS or PS4S will readily out comfort and out perform any sort of run-flat tires that comes OEM or aftermarket from any manufacturer. There's a reason nobody reviews run-flat tires for tire shootouts or reviews in general for recommendations. They are just appliances similar to a Prius, meant to be replaced when worn out. Can't believe you're justifying crappy tires for better options out there.

 

While yes the JCW/S is more expensive than the Justa, when broken down by a per mile cost, they're not radically different. To criticize it in such a way is unusual to me, as that is how every company reviews car reliability. Dollars per Mile. There is a reason that companies like Toyota always beat out companies like Mercedes/BMW. Even when they require the exact same maintenance, the Toyota will always rank higher as the parts & labor are substantially cheaper despite needing nothing less than the Mercedes or BMW counterparts. This doesn't factor in heavier repairs, but neither company are innocent (Mercedes intake manifolds on V6/V8 models, BMW VANOS actuator bolts backing out on N5x motors, and Toyota with self-loosening & thread stripping head bolts in the 2AZ).

I think you missed the point here. The Justa has a 0-60 time of between 9-10 seconds depending on transmission choice (similar times to our 98 Honda CR-V RT4WD). No amount of driving skill can magically make an engine produce more power than what is available. Yes as they are the same car underneath (minus some upgrades on the JCW/S models), so they can handle at high speed with the correct wheel/tire setup. And yes their brakes are so similar that they don't lack in that department either. But once you've braked for the corner, and have finished, you can not deny that the JCW/S will get you back up to speed quicker than a Justa.

Your analogy doesn't quite make sense. Yes the Miata *can* catch up to a Corvette in the corners, but a Justa keeping up with a JCW/S? Not a chance. Again, same car underneath but with more power & tweaked suspension, whos going to be miles ahead? Obviously not the Justa.

M'kay, here we go. I've been in an 07 JCW with PSS on them. Personally, I found them to be more vague than my Driveguards on handling, and even more vague than the Continental DWs on our R56. Why is this? Do some research into how Michelin gets such good reviews on comfort. It's all in the sidewalls. Michelin always builds tires with VERY soft sidewalls, that not only are prone to punctures, but are prone to overheating and tearing up the sidewalls (see attached photo of what this looks like, conveniently on a Michelin tire!). And no one reviews them? So all the reviews from Consumer Reports, Car & Driver, Road & Track, and on Tirerack.com MUST have been in my dreams no? And where they state how far run-flats have come? And how well they handle? OK!

Saying a tire you've never driven on is "crappy", is quite unfortunate. While yes there are better tires out there depending on your driving style, as an all-rounder tire though, I wouldn't give my Driveguards up for anything.

I hate to keep going on about this in this thread, but I see both cars on the daily, and none is really THAT much cheaper to run than the others.

 

Thank you for all the information!

So now I've narrowed it down to a 2011+ clubman maybe S maybe not (totally budget choice and what I can find!)

How concerned should I be about Mini's with 80K+ miles?

 

Depends really. Does it have a through service history from the first 5 miles until the 80k? Sure, I'd buy it, but for substantially less than one with 60k on it. No service history? Run for the hills.

 

Thanks for missing the point about the driver being the most important nut behind the wheel regardless of what car you drive.

But keep going I'm sure you'll continue to provide bonus points for selling the less reliable and more expensive to maintain car that will end up at your shop so you can charge them a higher bill. :p

Thanks for also proving the point of thinking the Michelin PSS tires are way more vague due to it's softer sidewalls, since that's all that make the tires great compared to your Runflat Driveguards. Forget about the different tire compounds they use with each area of the tire or tread patterns specifically designed to do things such as remove water, provide grip with a bigger contact patch. Soft side walls are all you need instead of actual tire layer construction that's specifically designed to work with different environments based on years of racing technology. They are junk since it's only OEM'd on most of the sports and supercars in the world that don't use runflats. Last I checked, no supercars use run flats no matter how much kool aid you pitch.

For reference- http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/tir...er-sport.html#

 

I own a 2011 S and love it, the most fun I've ever had. I was in the same boat and got a used one in Kentucky with pretty much everything i hoped to have on a brand new one.
While it's not been the most reliable car it's been a total hoot.
It's had the typical thermostat housing failure and I had an issue with the VANOS system. While neither were cheap it hasn't soured my perception of the car or the brand.
The VANOS issue was covered mostly by Mini (75% was).
If I had to do it again I'd get a certified used model because it would have a warranty. My past 2 used cars make me think it's a good idea.

Between the two, I'd take the S all day long. I don't track my car and freeway drive 60 miles everyday so I wanted the better acceleration. Passing and accelerating onto short Texas on ramps makes the S a no brainer. The Justa in this scenario can't come close. Plus, I'm still getting close to mid-30 mpg with highway speeds routinely in the 80s or even 90s.

My suggestion: go for the S; you won't regret it!