R55 2017 Homework
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06-12-2016, 06:08 PM
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2017 Homework
Howdy folks. I'm new to this site and the whole Mini world at that. I spent all day yesterday reading up on everything I could find concerning the 2017 Clubman. In the past whenever I saw a Mini, I thought, "I'd like to drive one of those," but as soon as I saw the new Clubman I thought, "I want to OWN one of THOSE now." The homework immediately began and... well, here I am. I have a hundred and one questions for you experienced Mini folks.
Being in Louisiana, I don't have a huge selection of dealerships to choose from. My nearest one is 140 miles away. Of course, from what I've read so far it looks as if many of you are in the same boat, logistically speaking. I'm not too terribly new at this as I currently own a 2006 VW GLI I bought new in December 2005. My Finance Minister (wife) agreed to it as long as it would be my last car. I assured her it would be.... I lied. At 50 years old, I can claim dementia. Anyway, the VW has been problem after problem once it hit 2 years old. I'm even on the 6th A/C compessor in it. My closest dealership was, until just a couple years ago, 120 miles north. So, I know a thing or two about long-distance auto support, but my lemon-resistance is wearing thin now. My biggest problem is that I can't tolerate cars manufactured from the "Big-3." Maybe a pickup truck, but I can't help it... I'm a car guy. I stopped liking Japanese cars when they removed the personality from them and the mainstream European cars are only available with automatics (and Japanese too) and the VW needs to finally go. What am I supposed to do? Mini may be my last hope. Hey, they even seem to push the manual transmission idea which is a good thing! VW is even drying up in the quality material and build department. After my current one, I vowed never to buy another VW made outside of Germany again. I had to tighten up loose hardware on my GLI as soon as I got it home.
Back on Mini topic now. After reading the horror stories of the earlier models of Clubman, it get the sense that Mini is trying to straighten things up some and are turning this into a "flagship" model. For the more experienced guys, does Mini really try to work bugs out? Or are they more like VW where they seem desensitize you into acceptance? I realize that European cars tend to have their quirks about them and one needs to be more involved and with a sense of humor, but in your opinion, would I do better with this brand? Considering the 2017 is so new, I know nobody has an answer for reliability, but using your experience do you see a model that might behave itself? I assume the 2017 is the same generation of the 2016? From what I've read so far here, everyone seems happy. I'm trying to decide if I need to make the initial trip to Baton Rouge. The only problem I see is the dealer has only 2 automatic Clubmans and I wouldn't be able to sample different features and you already know I want a 6-speed manual. I also need some more info on the following questions:
Seats. The leatherette sports seats come standard. Of course there are options that go above $2,000. Are the nice burgundy and blue crosstitch seats any more comfortable? I know they look nicer, but are they really any better on the back and butt? I imagine the only seats I can sample there would be the more expensive ones. Dealers love selling fully loaded models you know. I just don't always like buying them.
Dynamic Dampening. Ive read so much about the smoothness of the new Clubman. My roads here are absolutely awful. When I moved here 15 years ago, I was advised to never buy a nice car in Louisiana because the roads will tear them up. This is true. I also have chronic back problems and these roads constantly wear me out. If I were to test drive one, it may or may not have the Dynamic Dampening. If not, does the Dynamic Dampening have much effect on the smoothness? Does it also effect road noise too? How much?
Maintenance. I guess this doesn't have a dipstick? Oil changes are by notification? I read the servicing is by what the car tells you and when it says? I downloaded the owner's manual and saw nothing about a service schedule in it. I'm guessing it can tell you to change the oil anytime between 3 and 7k? Then the onboard computer will tell you if anything extra is needed? How's that been working out for people? I guess this is becoming more mainstream but it's kinda intimidating at the same time. If I had a chart or list outlining mileage for maintenance services and inspections, I could gauge what I'm up against, and plan servicing trips accordingly (remember, long distance) but it seems like a surprise "jump through hoops" way of reactive maintenance. Is there a safe window to schedule a service appointment after the lights and sirens come on? How are all you long-distance maintenance folks getting along with this? I'd like to change my own oil, but if I have other stuff popping up a week after I do it, what's the point of DIY? I'm OCD and like to plan and manage things.
All-4? I'm inclined toward the All-4 package due to how slick our roads are when it rains. My VW just spins when I need to pull out quickly with all season tires on wet roads. Our Grand Cherokee doesn't and it's made me a fan of AWD, BUT how are other peoples' Clubman S FWD models? Are they stable on wet roads or do you wish you had All-4? Or do you think they do well enough on slick pavement? Is it worth it? How about the ride quality? Is All-4 rougher and choppier than FWD? I know this is a sports toy, but I need to think about my spine and this leads me into:
Durability. With the lousy sub-par roads comes rattles. Mini Marketing leads me to believe this car is screwed down pretty snugly with plenty of quality parts and bits. Well, what do you think? I'm not expecting Mercedes Benz bank vault-like durability, but I'd imagine Mini marketing would never deceive us...right? Any better than the Puebla-built VW Jetta?
What do you guys think? Should I make that initial drive out there? If I can get your honest feedback on these issues I'd have a better idea of what to expect if they don't have the options I'm looking for. It also gives me an idea if some options are really worth it or not. I know I'd have to order a build but I sure don't want to pay for what I didn't need to begin with. Anything I should ask them? Can I expect any degotiation wiggle room on a custom build, or is the configurator price the lowest I can expect? I've never been a good car negotiator, so any help is greatly appreciated. We all want nice stuff and we want it at cheap prices, so what is a good deal?
Thanks for the help and the time it took to read all that.
Being in Louisiana, I don't have a huge selection of dealerships to choose from. My nearest one is 140 miles away. Of course, from what I've read so far it looks as if many of you are in the same boat, logistically speaking. I'm not too terribly new at this as I currently own a 2006 VW GLI I bought new in December 2005. My Finance Minister (wife) agreed to it as long as it would be my last car. I assured her it would be.... I lied. At 50 years old, I can claim dementia. Anyway, the VW has been problem after problem once it hit 2 years old. I'm even on the 6th A/C compessor in it. My closest dealership was, until just a couple years ago, 120 miles north. So, I know a thing or two about long-distance auto support, but my lemon-resistance is wearing thin now. My biggest problem is that I can't tolerate cars manufactured from the "Big-3." Maybe a pickup truck, but I can't help it... I'm a car guy. I stopped liking Japanese cars when they removed the personality from them and the mainstream European cars are only available with automatics (and Japanese too) and the VW needs to finally go. What am I supposed to do? Mini may be my last hope. Hey, they even seem to push the manual transmission idea which is a good thing! VW is even drying up in the quality material and build department. After my current one, I vowed never to buy another VW made outside of Germany again. I had to tighten up loose hardware on my GLI as soon as I got it home.
Back on Mini topic now. After reading the horror stories of the earlier models of Clubman, it get the sense that Mini is trying to straighten things up some and are turning this into a "flagship" model. For the more experienced guys, does Mini really try to work bugs out? Or are they more like VW where they seem desensitize you into acceptance? I realize that European cars tend to have their quirks about them and one needs to be more involved and with a sense of humor, but in your opinion, would I do better with this brand? Considering the 2017 is so new, I know nobody has an answer for reliability, but using your experience do you see a model that might behave itself? I assume the 2017 is the same generation of the 2016? From what I've read so far here, everyone seems happy. I'm trying to decide if I need to make the initial trip to Baton Rouge. The only problem I see is the dealer has only 2 automatic Clubmans and I wouldn't be able to sample different features and you already know I want a 6-speed manual. I also need some more info on the following questions:
Seats. The leatherette sports seats come standard. Of course there are options that go above $2,000. Are the nice burgundy and blue crosstitch seats any more comfortable? I know they look nicer, but are they really any better on the back and butt? I imagine the only seats I can sample there would be the more expensive ones. Dealers love selling fully loaded models you know. I just don't always like buying them.
Dynamic Dampening. Ive read so much about the smoothness of the new Clubman. My roads here are absolutely awful. When I moved here 15 years ago, I was advised to never buy a nice car in Louisiana because the roads will tear them up. This is true. I also have chronic back problems and these roads constantly wear me out. If I were to test drive one, it may or may not have the Dynamic Dampening. If not, does the Dynamic Dampening have much effect on the smoothness? Does it also effect road noise too? How much?
Maintenance. I guess this doesn't have a dipstick? Oil changes are by notification? I read the servicing is by what the car tells you and when it says? I downloaded the owner's manual and saw nothing about a service schedule in it. I'm guessing it can tell you to change the oil anytime between 3 and 7k? Then the onboard computer will tell you if anything extra is needed? How's that been working out for people? I guess this is becoming more mainstream but it's kinda intimidating at the same time. If I had a chart or list outlining mileage for maintenance services and inspections, I could gauge what I'm up against, and plan servicing trips accordingly (remember, long distance) but it seems like a surprise "jump through hoops" way of reactive maintenance. Is there a safe window to schedule a service appointment after the lights and sirens come on? How are all you long-distance maintenance folks getting along with this? I'd like to change my own oil, but if I have other stuff popping up a week after I do it, what's the point of DIY? I'm OCD and like to plan and manage things.
All-4? I'm inclined toward the All-4 package due to how slick our roads are when it rains. My VW just spins when I need to pull out quickly with all season tires on wet roads. Our Grand Cherokee doesn't and it's made me a fan of AWD, BUT how are other peoples' Clubman S FWD models? Are they stable on wet roads or do you wish you had All-4? Or do you think they do well enough on slick pavement? Is it worth it? How about the ride quality? Is All-4 rougher and choppier than FWD? I know this is a sports toy, but I need to think about my spine and this leads me into:
Durability. With the lousy sub-par roads comes rattles. Mini Marketing leads me to believe this car is screwed down pretty snugly with plenty of quality parts and bits. Well, what do you think? I'm not expecting Mercedes Benz bank vault-like durability, but I'd imagine Mini marketing would never deceive us...right? Any better than the Puebla-built VW Jetta?
What do you guys think? Should I make that initial drive out there? If I can get your honest feedback on these issues I'd have a better idea of what to expect if they don't have the options I'm looking for. It also gives me an idea if some options are really worth it or not. I know I'd have to order a build but I sure don't want to pay for what I didn't need to begin with. Anything I should ask them? Can I expect any degotiation wiggle room on a custom build, or is the configurator price the lowest I can expect? I've never been a good car negotiator, so any help is greatly appreciated. We all want nice stuff and we want it at cheap prices, so what is a good deal?
Thanks for the help and the time it took to read all that.
#2
06-12-2016, 07:56 PM
OVERDRIVE
Test drove one, very nice car but wife liked the smaller four door hardtop. Honestly for the money I would probably go for something else if I wanted a wagon. It really is more BMW now then Mini. I know your VW concerns, we have a TDI golf and have those dieselgate issues, but I'd probably look at a gti 4dr manual over the Clubman. Have fun in your last car purchase . Lol
#3
06-12-2016, 08:54 PM
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Own a Cooper S Clubman and it's been in the shop for repairs for 2 weeks with 500 miles on it so I can't comment on reliability of the new model yet.
We have NY pot holes that I guarantee rival any bad roads in the nation. The Clubman rides like a Cadillac compared to the Cooper 4 door and Countryman we drove. The longer wheelbase really makes a big difference.
Even with the NY snow (and we are near Buffalo) we opted out of the All4. You have some years on us but we grew up driving front wheel drive cars with snow tires and figured we can do it again. The All4 was just one more thing to go wrong or wear out.
Never got to try out different seats but the Leatherette seats are the most comfortable seats I've sat in and that includes my wifes Mercedes, some BMW's and lots of Japanese and American cars. The smooth ride and seats are what sold me and the turbo charged engine and LED Lights are what convinced my wife
Just one thing to keep in mind about 2016 to 2017 and why we grabbed one off the lot. Cars are the same but the 3 year maintenance warranty is neutered removing all the parts that wear out quick from the plan like brakes, clutches, etc.
http://www.motoringfile.com/2016/01/...gram-for-2017/
We have NY pot holes that I guarantee rival any bad roads in the nation. The Clubman rides like a Cadillac compared to the Cooper 4 door and Countryman we drove. The longer wheelbase really makes a big difference.
Even with the NY snow (and we are near Buffalo) we opted out of the All4. You have some years on us but we grew up driving front wheel drive cars with snow tires and figured we can do it again. The All4 was just one more thing to go wrong or wear out.
Never got to try out different seats but the Leatherette seats are the most comfortable seats I've sat in and that includes my wifes Mercedes, some BMW's and lots of Japanese and American cars. The smooth ride and seats are what sold me and the turbo charged engine and LED Lights are what convinced my wife
Just one thing to keep in mind about 2016 to 2017 and why we grabbed one off the lot. Cars are the same but the 3 year maintenance warranty is neutered removing all the parts that wear out quick from the plan like brakes, clutches, etc.
http://www.motoringfile.com/2016/01/...gram-for-2017/
#4
06-13-2016, 03:26 AM
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Milkman, Thanks for the reply. It helps some. I recall reading about your unfortunate circumstance with the stray bolt and no radiators in stock. Any update from Mini? It seems like one would have already been on a DHL plane to keep the new customer happy. Well, maybe one is and we just don't know it yet. Being Monday, I'd call them up.
If memory serves me correctly, I can get the configurator down to about 32k with a FWD S and just a couple options that seem important to me. I'd really like to feel the Dynamic Dampening and the ride difference between the All-4 and FWD. I don't think it's so much my back that I'm worried about as much as it may be the fear of rattles from a rough suspension.
Mini.the.moocher, you're supposed to talk me out of VW's. Seriously, the GOLF is notorious for being built like a tank and would have been a no-brainer if they left production in Germany, but after 3 VW's from the Puebla plant and having lived in Germany for 9 years, I can assure you there is a difference between what Europeans drive versus what we get from south of the border with VW badges glued on. VW has also made a business decision that undermines their design/quality successes from the 1990s and squandered everything Ferdinand Piech had done. Reliability was sketchy for a while, but material quality and design were great. Now? Maybe the CC, but I'm still leery of any modern VW.
All, have a good day.
If memory serves me correctly, I can get the configurator down to about 32k with a FWD S and just a couple options that seem important to me. I'd really like to feel the Dynamic Dampening and the ride difference between the All-4 and FWD. I don't think it's so much my back that I'm worried about as much as it may be the fear of rattles from a rough suspension.
Mini.the.moocher, you're supposed to talk me out of VW's. Seriously, the GOLF is notorious for being built like a tank and would have been a no-brainer if they left production in Germany, but after 3 VW's from the Puebla plant and having lived in Germany for 9 years, I can assure you there is a difference between what Europeans drive versus what we get from south of the border with VW badges glued on. VW has also made a business decision that undermines their design/quality successes from the 1990s and squandered everything Ferdinand Piech had done. Reliability was sketchy for a while, but material quality and design were great. Now? Maybe the CC, but I'm still leery of any modern VW.
All, have a good day.
#5
06-13-2016, 04:39 AM
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Milkman, Thanks for the reply. It helps some. I recall reading about your unfortunate circumstance with the stray bolt and no radiators in stock. Any update from Mini? It seems like one would have already been on a DHL plane to keep the new customer happy. Well, maybe one is and we just don't know it yet. Being Monday, I'd call them up.
If memory serves me correctly, I can get the configurator down to about 32k with a FWD S and just a couple options that seem important to me. I'd really like to feel the Dynamic Dampening and the ride difference between the All-4 and FWD. I don't think it's so much my back that I'm worried about as much as it may be the fear of rattles from a rough suspension.
If memory serves me correctly, I can get the configurator down to about 32k with a FWD S and just a couple options that seem important to me. I'd really like to feel the Dynamic Dampening and the ride difference between the All-4 and FWD. I don't think it's so much my back that I'm worried about as much as it may be the fear of rattles from a rough suspension.
The dealership has been very good about keeping the customer happy but I am honestly not that impressed so far with MINI's Corporate Customer Service as they took a very wait and see approach to the issue. Basically felt like this was no big deal on a brand new car we just dropped 32K on and I shouldnt be suprised that a brand new car should require a flatbed to the dealer and my first month not driving it. They'll review the file when we get our car back and decide if there is something they can do for our inconvenience
We test drove an All4 and while you really have a hard time getting all the differences in a short drive it felt just slightly less responsive in cornering as the non All4. I honestly don't think you could tell that much and if you can afford the jump in price it may be worth it for you for peace of mind. The All4's they had were optioned out and pushing 36k which was more than we wanted.
I'll be interested to see if you can find one with the dynamic suspensioning and would like your input on the difference. This is definately a vehicle we do not plan on keeping out of warranty due to repair costs so it will give us an idea what we want in our next MINI in 4 years.
#6
06-13-2016, 07:06 PM
My German built GTI (2007) was a pile of garbage. Multiple AC compressors, sensors/switches failing every six months, paint defects, etc. I've owned Toyotas since then with zero complaints... literally 0 defects over 115k miles and 6 years.
The Clubman ticked enough boxes and our R53 has been good if a bit needy on the maintenance side. Our dealings with MINI corporate have been good for an out of warranty steering pump, so I'm ok getting another one. If it stays reliable, we will keep this one a long time like the last one. If not, it will be the end of my foray into German cars.
The Clubman ticked enough boxes and our R53 has been good if a bit needy on the maintenance side. Our dealings with MINI corporate have been good for an out of warranty steering pump, so I'm ok getting another one. If it stays reliable, we will keep this one a long time like the last one. If not, it will be the end of my foray into German cars.
#7
06-13-2016, 07:39 PM
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"After reading the horror stories of the earlier models of Clubman, it get the sense that Mini is trying to straighten things up some and are turning this into a "flagship" model."
Pretty generalized statement there. Many happy 08-14 Clubman owners here. Especially those of us with the N18 engine. In my opinion the Clubman model ended in 2014.
Pretty generalized statement there. Many happy 08-14 Clubman owners here. Especially those of us with the N18 engine. In my opinion the Clubman model ended in 2014.
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#8
06-13-2016, 07:43 PM
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"After reading the horror stories of the earlier models of Clubman, it get the sense that Mini is trying to straighten things up some and are turning this into a "flagship" model."
Pretty bold statement there bud. Do some research of the owners on this site. Many happy 08-14 Clubman owners here. The "horror stories" you read are likely related to the N14 engine which was not exclusive to the Clubman. In my opinion, the Clubman model ended in the 2014 model year.
Pretty bold statement there bud. Do some research of the owners on this site. Many happy 08-14 Clubman owners here. The "horror stories" you read are likely related to the N14 engine which was not exclusive to the Clubman. In my opinion, the Clubman model ended in the 2014 model year.
#9
06-14-2016, 09:39 PM
Howdy folks. I'm new to this site and the whole Mini world at that. I spent all day yesterday reading up on everything I could find concerning the 2017 Clubman. In the past whenever I saw a Mini, I thought, "I'd like to drive one of those," but as soon as I saw the new Clubman I thought, "I want to OWN one of THOSE now." The homework immediately began and... well, here I am. I have a hundred and one questions for you experienced Mini folks.
Welcome to the forums! You will definitely learn a lot here. For reference, I work at MINI of Murray in Salt Lake City UT.
Being in Louisiana, I don't have a huge selection of dealerships to choose from. My nearest one is 140 miles away. Of course, from what I've read so far it looks as if many of you are in the same boat, logistically speaking. I'm not too terribly new at this as I currently own a 2006 VW GLI I bought new in December 2005. My Finance Minister (wife) agreed to it as long as it would be my last car. I assured her it would be.... I lied. At 50 years old, I can claim dementia. Anyway, the VW has been problem after problem once it hit 2 years old. I'm even on the 6th A/C compessor in it. My closest dealership was, until just a couple years ago, 120 miles north. So, I know a thing or two about long-distance auto support, but my lemon-resistance is wearing thin now. My biggest problem is that I can't tolerate cars manufactured from the "Big-3." Maybe a pickup truck, but I can't help it... I'm a car guy. I stopped liking Japanese cars when they removed the personality from them and the mainstream European cars are only available with automatics (and Japanese too) and the VW needs to finally go. What am I supposed to do? Mini may be my last hope. Hey, they even seem to push the manual transmission idea which is a good thing! VW is even drying up in the quality material and build department. After my current one, I vowed never to buy another VW made outside of Germany again. I had to tighten up loose hardware on my GLI as soon as I got it home.
We are the only dealer for Utah, Idaho, Wyoming and Montana, and a majority of Nevada is coming to us now instead of Reno or Las Vegas.
Back on Mini topic now. After reading the horror stories of the earlier models of Clubman, it get the sense that Mini is trying to straighten things up some and are turning this into a "flagship" model. For the more experienced guys, does Mini really try to work bugs out? Or are they more like VW where they seem desensitize you into acceptance? I realize that European cars tend to have their quirks about them and one needs to be more involved and with a sense of humor, but in your opinion, would I do better with this brand? Considering the 2017 is so new, I know nobody has an answer for reliability, but using your experience do you see a model that might behave itself? I assume the 2017 is the same generation of the 2016? From what I've read so far here, everyone seems happy. I'm trying to decide if I need to make the initial trip to Baton Rouge. The only problem I see is the dealer has only 2 automatic Clubmans and I wouldn't be able to sample different features and you already know I want a 6-speed manual. I also need some more info on the following questions:
Seats. The leatherette sports seats come standard. Of course there are options that go above $2,000. Are the nice burgundy and blue crosstitch seats any more comfortable? I know they look nicer, but are they really any better on the back and butt? I imagine the only seats I can sample there would be the more expensive ones. Dealers love selling fully loaded models you know. I just don't always like buying them.
The seats are identical. The only thing that changes is the material. I have the blue cross stitch leather seats in mine and I absolutely love how unique they are. Then again, my car ticked nearly every box and MSRP ended up at an eye popping $43,850
Dynamic Dampening. Ive read so much about the smoothness of the new Clubman. My roads here are absolutely awful. When I moved here 15 years ago, I was advised to never buy a nice car in Louisiana because the roads will tear them up. This is true. I also have chronic back problems and these roads constantly wear me out. If I were to test drive one, it may or may not have the Dynamic Dampening. If not, does the Dynamic Dampening have much effect on the smoothness? Does it also effect road noise too? How much?
I haven't had a chance to try the DDC (Dynamic Dampening Control) on a Clubman, but we had a 4 door hard top with it and it only changes it if you drive the car in GREEN mode, which is the super MPG saving mode. Boring. Nobody drives their MINI like that, at least they shouldn't...
Maintenance. I guess this doesn't have a dipstick? Oil changes are by notification? I read the servicing is by what the car tells you and when it says? I downloaded the owner's manual and saw nothing about a service schedule in it. I'm guessing it can tell you to change the oil anytime between 3 and 7k? Then the onboard computer will tell you if anything extra is needed? How's that been working out for people? I guess this is becoming more mainstream but it's kinda intimidating at the same time. If I had a chart or list outlining mileage for maintenance services and inspections, I could gauge what I'm up against, and plan servicing trips accordingly (remember, long distance) but it seems like a surprise "jump through hoops" way of reactive maintenance. Is there a safe window to schedule a service appointment after the lights and sirens come on? How are all you long-distance maintenance folks getting along with this? I'd like to change my own oil, but if I have other stuff popping up a week after I do it, what's the point of DIY? I'm OCD and like to plan and manage things.
You are correct. The motor has a digital oil level sender that measures the engine oil for you. MINI includes service on the car for the first 3 years, or 36,000 miles. On a 2016 it will include the clutch, wiper blades and brakes (pads, rotors and sensors) where as on a 2017 they drop the coverage for those additional components and drop it down to fluids and filters. Now, this car has a CBS computer. This is a Condition Based Servicing computer that uses an extremely complex algorithm to decide what services it needs and when. Typically it is an annual service and the Clubman default counter for an oil change is 10,000 miles, but this can change based on how/where the car is driven. I have seen cars go 15-17,000 miles before an oil service. Likewise I have seen cars come in just over 7,000 miles for an oil service. Most drivers come in once a year, but you can always check the status in the car by going into Vehicle Info -> Vehicle Status and then select Service Required. The car will also alert you for about 3 seconds at every vehicle start with a message stating Service due in +10000 or 3/2017 for example. There are only 3 service items on the Clubman, and typically when you see the first warning that service is due you have about a month before it is due-due. You can go a little over the timers, but honestly its best to stick close to them. The car is very smart and knows exactly what it needs and when.
All-4? I'm inclined toward the All-4 package due to how slick our roads are when it rains. My VW just spins when I need to pull out quickly with all season tires on wet roads. Our Grand Cherokee doesn't and it's made me a fan of AWD, BUT how are other peoples' Clubman S FWD models? Are they stable on wet roads or do you wish you had All-4? Or do you think they do well enough on slick pavement? Is it worth it? How about the ride quality? Is All-4 rougher and choppier than FWD? I know this is a sports toy, but I need to think about my spine and this leads me into:
I didn't go for an All4 for a few reasons. 1) All4 wasn't available when I leased in March. 2) The only REAL need for All4 is if you are going up mountainous roads. A good set of cold weather tires will get a Clubman ANYWHERE it needs to go, even without All4. 3) After having driven one of the All4 models that we have on the lot, it is much heavier. It just feels hefty, especially in the corners. My car feels nimble for a big boy, but the All4 just spoils the fun in the corners.
Durability. With the lousy sub-par roads comes rattles. Mini Marketing leads me to believe this car is screwed down pretty snugly with plenty of quality parts and bits. Well, what do you think? I'm not expecting Mercedes Benz bank vault-like durability, but I'd imagine Mini marketing would never deceive us...right? Any better than the Puebla-built VW Jetta?
These things are really solid. Our first 2 (mine and a client who lives 350 miles north of us) had minor things. My car had a rattle in the C pillar and the software on the car needed to be updated and on her car during delivery the factory didn't fully secure the rear passenger door window control and it fell into the door. Quick fix by our shop foreman of pulling it out and snapping it into place. This car will be quiet and comfortable. I honestly would take this car on the MINI takes the states if I could take the time off work.(If you haven't looked into that before, you should. It is an awesome experience)
What do you guys think? Should I make that initial drive out there? If I can get your honest feedback on these issues I'd have a better idea of what to expect if they don't have the options I'm looking for. It also gives me an idea if some options are really worth it or not. I know I'd have to order a build but I sure don't want to pay for what I didn't need to begin with. Anything I should ask them? Can I expect any degotiation wiggle room on a custom build, or is the configurator price the lowest I can expect? I've never been a good car negotiator, so any help is greatly appreciated. We all want nice stuff and we want it at cheap prices, so what is a good deal?
I would definitely go down and look at the car. There is no way to tell if you even like it until you drive it. Some people love it, some people hate it. Truth be told, most MINIs sell close to MSRP. MINI doesn't mark the car up on MSRP very far past the Invoice so profit margins for dealers are very tight. As a result they will discount cars but push warranties onto customers and mark them up, some dealers will add over 1,000 bucks to the actual cost of the warranty. Honestly, a TON of people order, so it shouldn't change the negotiation process.
Thanks for the help and the time it took to read all that.[/QUOTE]
I hope this little bit of information is helpful. Feel free to message me directly and I would be happy to answer any of your questions. I too came from a VW (B6 Passat) so I understand the confusion. This is my first MINI and I have been with the dealership for just over a year. Always loved the cars, just finally bit the bullet and got our most loaded model on the ground. I figured I only live once so I may as well have fun with it. Good luck, and welcome to the MINI family!
Welcome to the forums! You will definitely learn a lot here. For reference, I work at MINI of Murray in Salt Lake City UT.
Being in Louisiana, I don't have a huge selection of dealerships to choose from. My nearest one is 140 miles away. Of course, from what I've read so far it looks as if many of you are in the same boat, logistically speaking. I'm not too terribly new at this as I currently own a 2006 VW GLI I bought new in December 2005. My Finance Minister (wife) agreed to it as long as it would be my last car. I assured her it would be.... I lied. At 50 years old, I can claim dementia. Anyway, the VW has been problem after problem once it hit 2 years old. I'm even on the 6th A/C compessor in it. My closest dealership was, until just a couple years ago, 120 miles north. So, I know a thing or two about long-distance auto support, but my lemon-resistance is wearing thin now. My biggest problem is that I can't tolerate cars manufactured from the "Big-3." Maybe a pickup truck, but I can't help it... I'm a car guy. I stopped liking Japanese cars when they removed the personality from them and the mainstream European cars are only available with automatics (and Japanese too) and the VW needs to finally go. What am I supposed to do? Mini may be my last hope. Hey, they even seem to push the manual transmission idea which is a good thing! VW is even drying up in the quality material and build department. After my current one, I vowed never to buy another VW made outside of Germany again. I had to tighten up loose hardware on my GLI as soon as I got it home.
We are the only dealer for Utah, Idaho, Wyoming and Montana, and a majority of Nevada is coming to us now instead of Reno or Las Vegas.
Back on Mini topic now. After reading the horror stories of the earlier models of Clubman, it get the sense that Mini is trying to straighten things up some and are turning this into a "flagship" model. For the more experienced guys, does Mini really try to work bugs out? Or are they more like VW where they seem desensitize you into acceptance? I realize that European cars tend to have their quirks about them and one needs to be more involved and with a sense of humor, but in your opinion, would I do better with this brand? Considering the 2017 is so new, I know nobody has an answer for reliability, but using your experience do you see a model that might behave itself? I assume the 2017 is the same generation of the 2016? From what I've read so far here, everyone seems happy. I'm trying to decide if I need to make the initial trip to Baton Rouge. The only problem I see is the dealer has only 2 automatic Clubmans and I wouldn't be able to sample different features and you already know I want a 6-speed manual. I also need some more info on the following questions:
Seats. The leatherette sports seats come standard. Of course there are options that go above $2,000. Are the nice burgundy and blue crosstitch seats any more comfortable? I know they look nicer, but are they really any better on the back and butt? I imagine the only seats I can sample there would be the more expensive ones. Dealers love selling fully loaded models you know. I just don't always like buying them.
The seats are identical. The only thing that changes is the material. I have the blue cross stitch leather seats in mine and I absolutely love how unique they are. Then again, my car ticked nearly every box and MSRP ended up at an eye popping $43,850
Dynamic Dampening. Ive read so much about the smoothness of the new Clubman. My roads here are absolutely awful. When I moved here 15 years ago, I was advised to never buy a nice car in Louisiana because the roads will tear them up. This is true. I also have chronic back problems and these roads constantly wear me out. If I were to test drive one, it may or may not have the Dynamic Dampening. If not, does the Dynamic Dampening have much effect on the smoothness? Does it also effect road noise too? How much?
I haven't had a chance to try the DDC (Dynamic Dampening Control) on a Clubman, but we had a 4 door hard top with it and it only changes it if you drive the car in GREEN mode, which is the super MPG saving mode. Boring. Nobody drives their MINI like that, at least they shouldn't...
Maintenance. I guess this doesn't have a dipstick? Oil changes are by notification? I read the servicing is by what the car tells you and when it says? I downloaded the owner's manual and saw nothing about a service schedule in it. I'm guessing it can tell you to change the oil anytime between 3 and 7k? Then the onboard computer will tell you if anything extra is needed? How's that been working out for people? I guess this is becoming more mainstream but it's kinda intimidating at the same time. If I had a chart or list outlining mileage for maintenance services and inspections, I could gauge what I'm up against, and plan servicing trips accordingly (remember, long distance) but it seems like a surprise "jump through hoops" way of reactive maintenance. Is there a safe window to schedule a service appointment after the lights and sirens come on? How are all you long-distance maintenance folks getting along with this? I'd like to change my own oil, but if I have other stuff popping up a week after I do it, what's the point of DIY? I'm OCD and like to plan and manage things.
You are correct. The motor has a digital oil level sender that measures the engine oil for you. MINI includes service on the car for the first 3 years, or 36,000 miles. On a 2016 it will include the clutch, wiper blades and brakes (pads, rotors and sensors) where as on a 2017 they drop the coverage for those additional components and drop it down to fluids and filters. Now, this car has a CBS computer. This is a Condition Based Servicing computer that uses an extremely complex algorithm to decide what services it needs and when. Typically it is an annual service and the Clubman default counter for an oil change is 10,000 miles, but this can change based on how/where the car is driven. I have seen cars go 15-17,000 miles before an oil service. Likewise I have seen cars come in just over 7,000 miles for an oil service. Most drivers come in once a year, but you can always check the status in the car by going into Vehicle Info -> Vehicle Status and then select Service Required. The car will also alert you for about 3 seconds at every vehicle start with a message stating Service due in +10000 or 3/2017 for example. There are only 3 service items on the Clubman, and typically when you see the first warning that service is due you have about a month before it is due-due. You can go a little over the timers, but honestly its best to stick close to them. The car is very smart and knows exactly what it needs and when.
All-4? I'm inclined toward the All-4 package due to how slick our roads are when it rains. My VW just spins when I need to pull out quickly with all season tires on wet roads. Our Grand Cherokee doesn't and it's made me a fan of AWD, BUT how are other peoples' Clubman S FWD models? Are they stable on wet roads or do you wish you had All-4? Or do you think they do well enough on slick pavement? Is it worth it? How about the ride quality? Is All-4 rougher and choppier than FWD? I know this is a sports toy, but I need to think about my spine and this leads me into:
I didn't go for an All4 for a few reasons. 1) All4 wasn't available when I leased in March. 2) The only REAL need for All4 is if you are going up mountainous roads. A good set of cold weather tires will get a Clubman ANYWHERE it needs to go, even without All4. 3) After having driven one of the All4 models that we have on the lot, it is much heavier. It just feels hefty, especially in the corners. My car feels nimble for a big boy, but the All4 just spoils the fun in the corners.
Durability. With the lousy sub-par roads comes rattles. Mini Marketing leads me to believe this car is screwed down pretty snugly with plenty of quality parts and bits. Well, what do you think? I'm not expecting Mercedes Benz bank vault-like durability, but I'd imagine Mini marketing would never deceive us...right? Any better than the Puebla-built VW Jetta?
These things are really solid. Our first 2 (mine and a client who lives 350 miles north of us) had minor things. My car had a rattle in the C pillar and the software on the car needed to be updated and on her car during delivery the factory didn't fully secure the rear passenger door window control and it fell into the door. Quick fix by our shop foreman of pulling it out and snapping it into place. This car will be quiet and comfortable. I honestly would take this car on the MINI takes the states if I could take the time off work.(If you haven't looked into that before, you should. It is an awesome experience)
What do you guys think? Should I make that initial drive out there? If I can get your honest feedback on these issues I'd have a better idea of what to expect if they don't have the options I'm looking for. It also gives me an idea if some options are really worth it or not. I know I'd have to order a build but I sure don't want to pay for what I didn't need to begin with. Anything I should ask them? Can I expect any degotiation wiggle room on a custom build, or is the configurator price the lowest I can expect? I've never been a good car negotiator, so any help is greatly appreciated. We all want nice stuff and we want it at cheap prices, so what is a good deal?
I would definitely go down and look at the car. There is no way to tell if you even like it until you drive it. Some people love it, some people hate it. Truth be told, most MINIs sell close to MSRP. MINI doesn't mark the car up on MSRP very far past the Invoice so profit margins for dealers are very tight. As a result they will discount cars but push warranties onto customers and mark them up, some dealers will add over 1,000 bucks to the actual cost of the warranty. Honestly, a TON of people order, so it shouldn't change the negotiation process.
Thanks for the help and the time it took to read all that.[/QUOTE]
I hope this little bit of information is helpful. Feel free to message me directly and I would be happy to answer any of your questions. I too came from a VW (B6 Passat) so I understand the confusion. This is my first MINI and I have been with the dealership for just over a year. Always loved the cars, just finally bit the bullet and got our most loaded model on the ground. I figured I only live once so I may as well have fun with it. Good luck, and welcome to the MINI family!
#10
06-14-2016, 11:09 PM
OVERDRIVE
#11
06-15-2016, 03:08 AM
Join Date: Jun 2016
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#12
06-15-2016, 07:18 AM
For the record, I test drove a FWD 8AT clubman and my wife owns the 6MT all4.
#13
06-15-2016, 12:12 PM
...But, my 2017 MINI Clubman S ALL4 is what I wanted, and is all the level of luxury and feel one would expect in another badge!
Sorry to be cliché, ...but one could say, this MINI does #DEFYLABELS
Last edited by TC Mini; 06-15-2016 at 12:22 PM.
#14
06-16-2016, 07:30 AM
1st Gear
Join Date: May 2014
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completely AGREE with Quentin and TC
Took delivery of Clubman S ALL4 May 14th - have over 2,500 miles on it - and that is restricted to weekend driving.
Each of you has nailed it. I have had many other brands and all at relatively higher price points - this is far and away the most enjoyable and all the more so when one adds the extraordinary value proposition. That one can get it with a manual transmission is a huge advantage though have tested the new auto and it is superb as is the auto in the previous generation Clubman '14 , we still own.
I put aside the problems of previous generation Minis. While respecting its impressive legacy, current models should not be denied the improvements technology has provided. The vision its thoughtful parent had is fully coming to fruition with the third generation and particularly this Clubman model. I expect the new Countryman will also be superb for those requiring an SUV.
However, I am having a ball with this well and modestly styled wagon that offers acceleration and road holding like no other car i have owned. It's power and traction surprise many.
Only suggestion, is that manufacturer provide fix for taillight issue.
This car absolutely has it all - and i am thrilled with the burgundy/silver and Chesterfield seats.
Each of you has nailed it. I have had many other brands and all at relatively higher price points - this is far and away the most enjoyable and all the more so when one adds the extraordinary value proposition. That one can get it with a manual transmission is a huge advantage though have tested the new auto and it is superb as is the auto in the previous generation Clubman '14 , we still own.
I put aside the problems of previous generation Minis. While respecting its impressive legacy, current models should not be denied the improvements technology has provided. The vision its thoughtful parent had is fully coming to fruition with the third generation and particularly this Clubman model. I expect the new Countryman will also be superb for those requiring an SUV.
However, I am having a ball with this well and modestly styled wagon that offers acceleration and road holding like no other car i have owned. It's power and traction surprise many.
Only suggestion, is that manufacturer provide fix for taillight issue.
This car absolutely has it all - and i am thrilled with the burgundy/silver and Chesterfield seats.
#15
06-16-2016, 03:30 PM
6th Gear
Back on Mini topic now. After reading the horror stories of the earlier models of Clubman, it get the sense that Mini is trying to straighten things up some and are turning this into a "flagship" model. For the more experienced guys, does Mini really try to work bugs out? Or are they more like VW where they seem desensitize you into acceptance? I realize that European cars tend to have their quirks about them and one needs to be more involved and with a sense of humor, but in your opinion, would I do better with this brand? Considering the 2017 is so new, I know nobody has an answer for reliability, but using your experience do you see a model that might behave itself? I assume the 2017 is the same generation of the 2016? From what I've read so far here, everyone seems happy. I'm trying to decide if I need to make the initial trip to Baton Rouge. The only problem I see is the dealer has only 2 automatic Clubmans and I wouldn't be able to sample different features and you already know I want a 6-speed manual.
Horror stories about old MINIs tend to be blown out of proportion. Like others have said, the majority of Clubman owners have had few issues, if any. You just tend to hear the most out of those who have had trouble. The new Clubman has been out since late last year and the platform has been out since 2014. So far, I haven't heard of any major issues with the Clubman, just a few intermittent software quirks and some Clubman with weak rear door struts. I will say if you're looking at the manual, test drive both the S and the Cooper. I find the Cooper engine isn't quite enough for the bigger Clubman - it's okay, but I had a better experience with the 4-cyl Cooper S engine.
I also need some more info on the following questions:
Seats. The leatherette sports seats come standard. Of course there are options that go above $2,000. Are the nice burgundy and blue crosstitch seats any more comfortable? I know they look nicer, but are they really any better on the back and butt? I imagine the only seats I can sample there would be the more expensive ones. Dealers love selling fully loaded models you know. I just don't always like buying them.
My butt has experienced all the seat upholsteries and while the seat geometry is the same, I find that the Chesterfield seats (which may very well be my favorite seats of all time) have a little more plush to them. I found the leatherette seats provided the least amount of cushion, especially in the back seat (not that you should ever be back there
)
Dynamic Dampening. Ive read so much about the smoothness of the new Clubman. My roads here are absolutely awful. When I moved here 15 years ago, I was advised to never buy a nice car in Louisiana because the roads will tear them up. This is true. I also have chronic back problems and these roads constantly wear me out. If I were to test drive one, it may or may not have the Dynamic Dampening. If not, does the Dynamic Dampening have much effect on the smoothness? Does it also effect road noise too? How much?
The nice thing about the DDC is that the normal setting is a little softer than the stock suspension and you have the option to firm it up for those sportier feeling days. Camyman is incorrect however, the DDC is only adjustable in the SPORT setting, not the GREEN setting. In MID and GREEN, the setting is set at 10% softer than stock and in SPORT, it can be configured to 10% stiffer (or not). I like it because when my wife is riding with me, she does not appreciate the stiffer ride, but when it's just me, I can flick over to SPORT and get that sharper handling feeling. It's also nice that I can choose to have the responsiveness of SPORT, but without the stiffer ride if it's pothole season.
Maintenance. I guess this doesn't have a dipstick? Oil changes are by notification? I read the servicing is by what the car tells you and when it says? I downloaded the owner's manual and saw nothing about a service schedule in it. I'm guessing it can tell you to change the oil anytime between 3 and 7k? Then the onboard computer will tell you if anything extra is needed? How's that been working out for people? I guess this is becoming more mainstream but it's kinda intimidating at the same time. If I had a chart or list outlining mileage for maintenance services and inspections, I could gauge what I'm up against, and plan servicing trips accordingly (remember, long distance) but it seems like a surprise "jump through hoops" way of reactive maintenance. Is there a safe window to schedule a service appointment after the lights and sirens come on? How are all you long-distance maintenance folks getting along with this? I'd like to change my own oil, but if I have other stuff popping up a week after I do it, what's the point of DIY? I'm OCD and like to plan and manage things.
As Camyman mentioned, the service schedule is for the most part, condition based, but the car will have the schedule built in so you can check when ever you want. Otherwise, when service is coming up, the car will pop up a message well in advance informing you of such (within 1000 miles or 1 month). Oil changes are the most frequent and occur about every year or 10k miles, whichever comes first. Definitely worth checking the oil level every now and again, which on these is done electronically.
All-4? I'm inclined toward the All-4 package due to how slick our roads are when it rains. My VW just spins when I need to pull out quickly with all season tires on wet roads. Our Grand Cherokee doesn't and it's made me a fan of AWD, BUT how are other peoples' Clubman S FWD models? Are they stable on wet roads or do you wish you had All-4? Or do you think they do well enough on slick pavement? Is it worth it? How about the ride quality? Is All-4 rougher and choppier than FWD? I know this is a sports toy, but I need to think about my spine and this leads me into:
I have to disagree with Camyman. ALL4 is useful in all weather conditions as it helps with cornering performance and off the line. Is it necessary? Probably not, unless you do a lot of snowy driving and even then, as others have mentioned, good tires are more help than AWD. The system is not that heavy (especially compared to the old system) and only adds about 150 lbs. Yes, this extra weight does make it a little slower, but I honestly couldn't tell the difference. The better traction made it feel faster to me. Not sure what Camyman meant when he said it felt slower in the corners. I feel like I was able to push it harder in the corners without it slipping compared to the FWD. You do also get a slight MPG ding, though again, with the redesigned ALL4, it's not as big a hit as before (1-2 mpg I believe)
Durability. With the lousy sub-par roads comes rattles. Mini Marketing leads me to believe this car is screwed down pretty snugly with plenty of quality parts and bits. Well, what do you think? I'm not expecting Mercedes Benz bank vault-like durability, but I'd imagine Mini marketing would never deceive us...right? Any better than the Puebla-built VW Jetta?
My 4-door and Countryman before that have both been pretty rattle free, but of course mileage my vary. I won't say none of them rattle, but most of them probably won't. Test drive with the radio off.
What do you guys think? Should I make that initial drive out there? If I can get your honest feedback on these issues I'd have a better idea of what to expect if they don't have the options I'm looking for. It also gives me an idea if some options are really worth it or not. I know I'd have to order a build but I sure don't want to pay for what I didn't need to begin with. Anything I should ask them? Can I expect any degotiation wiggle room on a custom build, or is the configurator price the lowest I can expect? I've never been a good car negotiator, so any help is greatly appreciated. We all want nice stuff and we want it at cheap prices, so what is a good deal?
MINI has never been known to have as much wiggle room as some other manufacturers, but there have never been better pricing as there is now. When I bought my Countryman 5 years ago, it was not unusual to pay over MSRP. Now, depending on what programs MINI is running, it's not unusual to expect a $500-$1000 off (depends on dealer, of course). Keep in mind, the ALL4 Clubman is a new model, so incentives and price wiggle room is probably at it's lowest now. Pricing is unlikely to go up, though, so waiting probably wouldn't hurt. Keep in mind also, if you order, incentives you are eligible for go off of when you take delivery of the car NOT when you order. The incentives out now may very well change between now and when you actually get the car.
Horror stories about old MINIs tend to be blown out of proportion. Like others have said, the majority of Clubman owners have had few issues, if any. You just tend to hear the most out of those who have had trouble. The new Clubman has been out since late last year and the platform has been out since 2014. So far, I haven't heard of any major issues with the Clubman, just a few intermittent software quirks and some Clubman with weak rear door struts. I will say if you're looking at the manual, test drive both the S and the Cooper. I find the Cooper engine isn't quite enough for the bigger Clubman - it's okay, but I had a better experience with the 4-cyl Cooper S engine.
I also need some more info on the following questions:
Seats. The leatherette sports seats come standard. Of course there are options that go above $2,000. Are the nice burgundy and blue crosstitch seats any more comfortable? I know they look nicer, but are they really any better on the back and butt? I imagine the only seats I can sample there would be the more expensive ones. Dealers love selling fully loaded models you know. I just don't always like buying them.
My butt has experienced all the seat upholsteries and while the seat geometry is the same, I find that the Chesterfield seats (which may very well be my favorite seats of all time) have a little more plush to them. I found the leatherette seats provided the least amount of cushion, especially in the back seat (not that you should ever be back there
)Dynamic Dampening. Ive read so much about the smoothness of the new Clubman. My roads here are absolutely awful. When I moved here 15 years ago, I was advised to never buy a nice car in Louisiana because the roads will tear them up. This is true. I also have chronic back problems and these roads constantly wear me out. If I were to test drive one, it may or may not have the Dynamic Dampening. If not, does the Dynamic Dampening have much effect on the smoothness? Does it also effect road noise too? How much?
The nice thing about the DDC is that the normal setting is a little softer than the stock suspension and you have the option to firm it up for those sportier feeling days. Camyman is incorrect however, the DDC is only adjustable in the SPORT setting, not the GREEN setting. In MID and GREEN, the setting is set at 10% softer than stock and in SPORT, it can be configured to 10% stiffer (or not). I like it because when my wife is riding with me, she does not appreciate the stiffer ride, but when it's just me, I can flick over to SPORT and get that sharper handling feeling. It's also nice that I can choose to have the responsiveness of SPORT, but without the stiffer ride if it's pothole season.
Maintenance. I guess this doesn't have a dipstick? Oil changes are by notification? I read the servicing is by what the car tells you and when it says? I downloaded the owner's manual and saw nothing about a service schedule in it. I'm guessing it can tell you to change the oil anytime between 3 and 7k? Then the onboard computer will tell you if anything extra is needed? How's that been working out for people? I guess this is becoming more mainstream but it's kinda intimidating at the same time. If I had a chart or list outlining mileage for maintenance services and inspections, I could gauge what I'm up against, and plan servicing trips accordingly (remember, long distance) but it seems like a surprise "jump through hoops" way of reactive maintenance. Is there a safe window to schedule a service appointment after the lights and sirens come on? How are all you long-distance maintenance folks getting along with this? I'd like to change my own oil, but if I have other stuff popping up a week after I do it, what's the point of DIY? I'm OCD and like to plan and manage things.
As Camyman mentioned, the service schedule is for the most part, condition based, but the car will have the schedule built in so you can check when ever you want. Otherwise, when service is coming up, the car will pop up a message well in advance informing you of such (within 1000 miles or 1 month). Oil changes are the most frequent and occur about every year or 10k miles, whichever comes first. Definitely worth checking the oil level every now and again, which on these is done electronically.
All-4? I'm inclined toward the All-4 package due to how slick our roads are when it rains. My VW just spins when I need to pull out quickly with all season tires on wet roads. Our Grand Cherokee doesn't and it's made me a fan of AWD, BUT how are other peoples' Clubman S FWD models? Are they stable on wet roads or do you wish you had All-4? Or do you think they do well enough on slick pavement? Is it worth it? How about the ride quality? Is All-4 rougher and choppier than FWD? I know this is a sports toy, but I need to think about my spine and this leads me into:
I have to disagree with Camyman. ALL4 is useful in all weather conditions as it helps with cornering performance and off the line. Is it necessary? Probably not, unless you do a lot of snowy driving and even then, as others have mentioned, good tires are more help than AWD. The system is not that heavy (especially compared to the old system) and only adds about 150 lbs. Yes, this extra weight does make it a little slower, but I honestly couldn't tell the difference. The better traction made it feel faster to me. Not sure what Camyman meant when he said it felt slower in the corners. I feel like I was able to push it harder in the corners without it slipping compared to the FWD. You do also get a slight MPG ding, though again, with the redesigned ALL4, it's not as big a hit as before (1-2 mpg I believe)
Durability. With the lousy sub-par roads comes rattles. Mini Marketing leads me to believe this car is screwed down pretty snugly with plenty of quality parts and bits. Well, what do you think? I'm not expecting Mercedes Benz bank vault-like durability, but I'd imagine Mini marketing would never deceive us...right? Any better than the Puebla-built VW Jetta?
My 4-door and Countryman before that have both been pretty rattle free, but of course mileage my vary. I won't say none of them rattle, but most of them probably won't. Test drive with the radio off.
What do you guys think? Should I make that initial drive out there? If I can get your honest feedback on these issues I'd have a better idea of what to expect if they don't have the options I'm looking for. It also gives me an idea if some options are really worth it or not. I know I'd have to order a build but I sure don't want to pay for what I didn't need to begin with. Anything I should ask them? Can I expect any degotiation wiggle room on a custom build, or is the configurator price the lowest I can expect? I've never been a good car negotiator, so any help is greatly appreciated. We all want nice stuff and we want it at cheap prices, so what is a good deal?
MINI has never been known to have as much wiggle room as some other manufacturers, but there have never been better pricing as there is now. When I bought my Countryman 5 years ago, it was not unusual to pay over MSRP. Now, depending on what programs MINI is running, it's not unusual to expect a $500-$1000 off (depends on dealer, of course). Keep in mind, the ALL4 Clubman is a new model, so incentives and price wiggle room is probably at it's lowest now. Pricing is unlikely to go up, though, so waiting probably wouldn't hurt. Keep in mind also, if you order, incentives you are eligible for go off of when you take delivery of the car NOT when you order. The incentives out now may very well change between now and when you actually get the car.
#16
06-16-2016, 03:49 PM
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Thanks one and all. I'll start whining to my Finance Minister and try to get to the dealer soon.
One other thing, just out of curiosity for those who may be in the know. Intake carbon build-up: with the N18 rerouting pcv venting to minimize the build-up from the older N14s, how is THIS new engine dealing with the issue? Any insight in how it's expected to work out?
One other thing, just out of curiosity for those who may be in the know. Intake carbon build-up: with the N18 rerouting pcv venting to minimize the build-up from the older N14s, how is THIS new engine dealing with the issue? Any insight in how it's expected to work out?
#17
06-19-2016, 08:13 PM
Join Date: Jun 2016
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I've been researching for days now and can't find an answer to one of my questions. I don't know if anyone has info on it yet but I'm hoping someone here may be privy to it:
This motor, the B48 (am I correct?) is supposed to be an improvement over the N20. I read about everything I can find on it, going so far as downloading and reading the tech training on the 58 (B48 training wasn't out there) but still can't find out anything on safeguards to minimize the dreaded intake carbon buildup. I understand the N20 incorporated routing to improve conditions over the N14, but what about this one? I've never owned a BMW but have recently discovered BMW owners are frustrated with the issue, and probably more so than VW/Audi owners. There just isn't much internet chatter on this particular engine other than "it's new" or "this is cool."
This motor, the B48 (am I correct?) is supposed to be an improvement over the N20. I read about everything I can find on it, going so far as downloading and reading the tech training on the 58 (B48 training wasn't out there) but still can't find out anything on safeguards to minimize the dreaded intake carbon buildup. I understand the N20 incorporated routing to improve conditions over the N14, but what about this one? I've never owned a BMW but have recently discovered BMW owners are frustrated with the issue, and probably more so than VW/Audi owners. There just isn't much internet chatter on this particular engine other than "it's new" or "this is cool."
#18
07-23-2016, 05:37 AM
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After a few weeks of research I finally got an email from a MINI dealer describing (somewhat) the PCV system of the B48 vs the older N14. This is a cut & paste of the response from Clearwater MINI/' BMW in the Houston, TX area:
"The intake manifold for the N14 and the the intake manifold for the B48 are two completely different set ups. The N14 uses the valve cover crankcase system to draw out the excess fumes from the engine which causes the pulling of old fumes which then causes a carbon build up in the N14. The B48 does not have the same crankcase set up in the valve cover and the fumes do not pull.. It has individual ports per cylinder to remove the fumes from the crankcase and does not have a collective diaphram like the N14 valve cover so it does not build up carbon on the valves. As for the second question, we have not seen any cars here at our dealership with that issue."
This post was in case anyone is curious but didn't know. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the "..individual ports per cylinder to remove the fumes from the crankcase..." thing. It causes other questions and perhaps I'm over-thinking it. Hey, so long as it works...
"The intake manifold for the N14 and the the intake manifold for the B48 are two completely different set ups. The N14 uses the valve cover crankcase system to draw out the excess fumes from the engine which causes the pulling of old fumes which then causes a carbon build up in the N14. The B48 does not have the same crankcase set up in the valve cover and the fumes do not pull.. It has individual ports per cylinder to remove the fumes from the crankcase and does not have a collective diaphram like the N14 valve cover so it does not build up carbon on the valves. As for the second question, we have not seen any cars here at our dealership with that issue."
This post was in case anyone is curious but didn't know. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the "..individual ports per cylinder to remove the fumes from the crankcase..." thing. It causes other questions and perhaps I'm over-thinking it. Hey, so long as it works...
#19
07-27-2016, 01:11 PM
The F54 engine is the same block and head/accoutrements as the BMW X1 engines. Just less HP & torque for the same displacement. Unfortunately, it takes a few years for the weakest links to reveal themselves. When I bought my 2008 Clubman S, here was no chatter about carbon build up at the time. Yet everyone knew about the VW issue, so many assumed "of course BMW wouldn't make that SAME STUPID design error". But they did.
We test drove a boatload of 2016 Clubmans. We test drove (and rented) a boatload of different vehicles, planning for out next car. We NEVER buy new cars. Always 1,2,3 years old, when the major depreciation has already been factored in. The sticker on my fully loaded 2008 MCCS was about $34k. We bought it 18 months old with 19k miles on it for $21k. We WERE looking for a used 2009, but the 2008 was literally exactly how I would have ordered it, plus a few goodies I wouldn't have paid for, but were glad to take (like Lifetime Sirius Radio, Xenon headlights, etc), and it was to be my wifes DD, so SHE had to like it, but I had to approve it. She adores the barn doors. She is a petite woman and the hatches are always a problem for her. We have been very lucky with the car, never stranded, but it's had the usual issues, and had the timing chain, tensioner and guides all replaced under the last TSB at about 46k miles. Been perfect since. I replaced the tstat and turbo oil lines/housing gaskets with the DT Super kit, so I've avoided any real cost issues, so far. But with those issues, we WERE soured at the reliability/dependability of Mini, though we enjoyed the car immensely. We've owned a few BMW's and have had no real issues with ours in the past, so when I found out about the B48 series engines and trannys in the new Mini's we drove some. The wife was not in love with the styling and comfort of the of Countryman and 4 doors. The X1 had it all over them in power and handling, but we weren't in love with the small SUV form factor or the modernistic styling. Wife is 63 and I am 58, so we were looking for a dependable car with comfort and styling she liked, but fun handling and solid design that I could accept.
We pulled up behind a 2016 Clubman at a light, and my wife turned to me and said" I thought you told me they discontinued Clubmans?" The rest went pretty smoothly from there. Down to the dealer, a sale was going on, knocked $2400 off the sticker and actually ordered it the exact way we wanted, and was driving it 7 weeks later, to the day. It fits our needs perfectly. It is the first car I've ever owned that I felt was actually worth ordering new to get it the exact way we wanted.
We got the cross stitched black leather Sport seats. We were going to get the leatherette, and were quite pleased with them, UNTIL we drove the leather version. We both agreed it was easily worth the extra $1750. The comfort, support and feel when driving are quite simply, the best seats I have ever driven in. While we really wanted the electric seats with memory, we could not see that being worth an extra $1250. We drove both the S and non S versions, and unlike the R55, the difference was no where near as humongous. It's noticeable, but not at all like the older, smaller cars. They really need to up the HP & Torque on the S Clubman to make it a sporty wagon. For instance, the 3 cylinder turbo base in Sport mode is much more fun and Sporty than the S in regular mode. But no one would mistake either for a Porsche.
The build materials and cabin quietness are world class for it's price range. Far better than any other $30kish car or SUV we drove. The suspension is superb, firm, yet absorbing, solid heard, but not felt thumps on bad roads. I didn't want the added complexity of the Dynamic Dampers for the added cost. We were also going to get the manual, but I was not in love (actually, hated) the effortless shifting and vagues effortless clutch feel. The automatic was impressive. My Carrera is a manual, and that's the type of shifting I enjoy.
The HK stereo and Nav are near identical to the X1, and the sound is quite impressive. I'm less than impressed with the NAV, but I wanted the larger screen and back up camera and the HK, so NAV tagged along. It's useable, but they really are WAY behind compared to a new Magellan or Garmin. BT integration is excellent and sounds crystal clear, both for phone and streaming. The idrive is not my favorite interface, and requires way too much attention to use while driving. A touchscreen would have been far better IMHO. The spare tire integrated under the rear cargo area for $100 is a bargain, as is the storage option (included in one of the packages I chose), as well as the Homelink integration in the mirror with compass and auto dimming for all mirrors..
A lot of people don't like the framed door windows, as all previous Minis were frame less, but I actually greatly prefer the framed windows and doors, both for the look and the operation. When you close a door on a new Clubman, it sounds like you are closing a safe. It is amazingly solid sounding.
I couldn't bring myself to spend $1000 for the LED headlights. Whiter halogens with the advanced reflectors they use now are good enough for us. I have Bi Xenon in the other 2 cars, and while I like their throw, it's not the be all and end all for us. Plus hopefully someone may eventually make an LED replacement bulb that will work that's not $100 a bulb and throws a code..
We test drove a boatload of 2016 Clubmans. We test drove (and rented) a boatload of different vehicles, planning for out next car. We NEVER buy new cars. Always 1,2,3 years old, when the major depreciation has already been factored in. The sticker on my fully loaded 2008 MCCS was about $34k. We bought it 18 months old with 19k miles on it for $21k. We WERE looking for a used 2009, but the 2008 was literally exactly how I would have ordered it, plus a few goodies I wouldn't have paid for, but were glad to take (like Lifetime Sirius Radio, Xenon headlights, etc), and it was to be my wifes DD, so SHE had to like it, but I had to approve it. She adores the barn doors. She is a petite woman and the hatches are always a problem for her. We have been very lucky with the car, never stranded, but it's had the usual issues, and had the timing chain, tensioner and guides all replaced under the last TSB at about 46k miles. Been perfect since. I replaced the tstat and turbo oil lines/housing gaskets with the DT Super kit, so I've avoided any real cost issues, so far. But with those issues, we WERE soured at the reliability/dependability of Mini, though we enjoyed the car immensely. We've owned a few BMW's and have had no real issues with ours in the past, so when I found out about the B48 series engines and trannys in the new Mini's we drove some. The wife was not in love with the styling and comfort of the of Countryman and 4 doors. The X1 had it all over them in power and handling, but we weren't in love with the small SUV form factor or the modernistic styling. Wife is 63 and I am 58, so we were looking for a dependable car with comfort and styling she liked, but fun handling and solid design that I could accept.
We pulled up behind a 2016 Clubman at a light, and my wife turned to me and said" I thought you told me they discontinued Clubmans?" The rest went pretty smoothly from there. Down to the dealer, a sale was going on, knocked $2400 off the sticker and actually ordered it the exact way we wanted, and was driving it 7 weeks later, to the day. It fits our needs perfectly. It is the first car I've ever owned that I felt was actually worth ordering new to get it the exact way we wanted.
We got the cross stitched black leather Sport seats. We were going to get the leatherette, and were quite pleased with them, UNTIL we drove the leather version. We both agreed it was easily worth the extra $1750. The comfort, support and feel when driving are quite simply, the best seats I have ever driven in. While we really wanted the electric seats with memory, we could not see that being worth an extra $1250. We drove both the S and non S versions, and unlike the R55, the difference was no where near as humongous. It's noticeable, but not at all like the older, smaller cars. They really need to up the HP & Torque on the S Clubman to make it a sporty wagon. For instance, the 3 cylinder turbo base in Sport mode is much more fun and Sporty than the S in regular mode. But no one would mistake either for a Porsche.
The build materials and cabin quietness are world class for it's price range. Far better than any other $30kish car or SUV we drove. The suspension is superb, firm, yet absorbing, solid heard, but not felt thumps on bad roads. I didn't want the added complexity of the Dynamic Dampers for the added cost. We were also going to get the manual, but I was not in love (actually, hated) the effortless shifting and vagues effortless clutch feel. The automatic was impressive. My Carrera is a manual, and that's the type of shifting I enjoy.
The HK stereo and Nav are near identical to the X1, and the sound is quite impressive. I'm less than impressed with the NAV, but I wanted the larger screen and back up camera and the HK, so NAV tagged along. It's useable, but they really are WAY behind compared to a new Magellan or Garmin. BT integration is excellent and sounds crystal clear, both for phone and streaming. The idrive is not my favorite interface, and requires way too much attention to use while driving. A touchscreen would have been far better IMHO. The spare tire integrated under the rear cargo area for $100 is a bargain, as is the storage option (included in one of the packages I chose), as well as the Homelink integration in the mirror with compass and auto dimming for all mirrors..
A lot of people don't like the framed door windows, as all previous Minis were frame less, but I actually greatly prefer the framed windows and doors, both for the look and the operation. When you close a door on a new Clubman, it sounds like you are closing a safe. It is amazingly solid sounding.
I couldn't bring myself to spend $1000 for the LED headlights. Whiter halogens with the advanced reflectors they use now are good enough for us. I have Bi Xenon in the other 2 cars, and while I like their throw, it's not the be all and end all for us. Plus hopefully someone may eventually make an LED replacement bulb that will work that's not $100 a bulb and throws a code..
Last edited by perryinva; 07-27-2016 at 01:20 PM.
#20
07-27-2016, 02:27 PM
Banned
R55
Great story, thanks for sharing!
Here's a handy service and maintenance guide for you:
http://new.minimania.com/Mini_Cooper...for_Gen3_Minis
Drive Hard. Drive Safe. Keep Grinning.
Here's a handy service and maintenance guide for you:
http://new.minimania.com/Mini_Cooper...for_Gen3_Minis
Drive Hard. Drive Safe. Keep Grinning.
#21
07-27-2016, 03:36 PM
OVERDRIVE
#22
07-27-2016, 07:03 PM
I ended up getting the Base 3 cyl turbo. I couldn't see spending $3500 more for the small performance increase, and the ride was better with 16s vs the 17s on the S. Wheels are so easy to upgrade later if the wife ends up curbing them like she did on our 2008 S. She is literally the worlds worst curbside parking person. The idle is definitely lumpier on the 3 vs the 4, but in Sport mode any gas at all, and it is an impressive little powerhouse. If the engine specs of the S matched the same BMW engine, I probably could have been swayed. But with other performance cars in the house, the S was just not impressive enough to justify the cost. Of course, YMMV, AND I by no means think the S is a waste of money etc, etc. Just for me, IF I decide to get a more performance sided Mini, it would be a JCW. But Mini has to prove to me that this generation does not suffer the long term inexcusable ills of the 2nd Gen cars. I'm just getting too old to spend a lot of time under a car fixing it, because of the dealers and local shops high repair prices around here. When I Lived near Detroit there were plenty of reasonable priced quality garages.
#23
08-02-2016, 10:23 AM
I ended up getting the Base 3 cyl turbo. I couldn't see spending $3500 more for the small performance increase, and the ride was better with 16s vs the 17s on the S. Wheels are so easy to upgrade later if the wife ends up curbing them like she did on our 2008 S. She is literally the worlds worst curbside parking person. The idle is definitely lumpier on the 3 vs the 4, but in Sport mode any gas at all, and it is an impressive little powerhouse. If the engine specs of the S matched the same BMW engine, I probably could have been swayed. But with other performance cars in the house, the S was just not impressive enough to justify the cost. Of course, YMMV, AND I by no means think the S is a waste of money etc, etc.
The GTI vs. Clubman battle is interesting. We'd be leaning toward the base 3-cyl turbo as well I think (drove one - it was more than apt). Depends how much filthy lucre VW may attempt to throw at us (on top of the buyback) that will probably end up swaying the decision. We really don't want to give VW any more $ at this point, but a better-than-good deal is hard to turn away from if offered.
#24
08-02-2016, 02:54 PM
Join Date: Jun 2016
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Perryinva, thanks for the feedback...I'll post more soon as I find your take fascinating.
Now drshaws, please excuse me for prying as I mean no harm. I just need to know why you want VW to do a buy-back on your tdi? I'm familiar with the "dieselgate" thing, but other than a fib by VW, isn't it already a good car? In fact, I was considering a tdi Sportwagon until I found out they were cxl'd over the issue.....then I saw the Clubman. I talked to my local indi mechanic and we both agree that if we had a tdi, we'd try to get out of ever having "the fix" done on it. It might lose its fun-factor. Of course, in Louisiana we have no emissions inspection requirements. Perhaps you do? I'm just curious...thanks.
Now drshaws, please excuse me for prying as I mean no harm. I just need to know why you want VW to do a buy-back on your tdi? I'm familiar with the "dieselgate" thing, but other than a fib by VW, isn't it already a good car? In fact, I was considering a tdi Sportwagon until I found out they were cxl'd over the issue.....then I saw the Clubman. I talked to my local indi mechanic and we both agree that if we had a tdi, we'd try to get out of ever having "the fix" done on it. It might lose its fun-factor. Of course, in Louisiana we have no emissions inspection requirements. Perhaps you do? I'm just curious...thanks.
#25
08-02-2016, 03:35 PM
OVERDRIVE