Hey Gang,

I sold my cooper S two years ago. (with many mods) I am coming back!

Now I have two kids and the wife drives a FLEX. So there will be a time when I will need to get a baby seat in. So Clubman is perfect.

But I really want a "drivers" car. I am trying to decide between an S or a JCW. Budget is the real issue here otherwise I wouldn't think twice. All you S drivers out there, any regrets? Would you get the JCW instead or is the HP increase not really that substantial? Or have S drivers done mods that make a big difference?

options: which options are a must???
I appreiciate any $.02 you can give me.

 

I wanted the JCW so bad, but couldn't justify the HUGE price difference between that and the S, so I got the S. I did just recently upgrade with the JCW kit, so i'm happy!

 

I drive an "S", but recently got to drive a JCW Clubman for three days while my car was in the shop. The JCW clubman had better acceleration and handling, but I had to really push the car on deserted country roads to tell. Under normal driving conditions you'd rarely notice a difference. If you wanted a track-day car and money was no object, I'd say the JCW would be a good upgrade, but the S model handles so well if all you're doing is driving on the street its not worth the big increase in price.

 

Thanks guys! I really appreciate the advice. Looks like the suspension and big brakes are relly what matters between the two.

 

The stock Cooper S and JCW suspensions are the same.

 

I have a JCW Clubman. Test drove both the S and JCW. Both were a blast to drive. The "Sport" mode button (improved handling and acceleration) and Brembo brakes on the JCW sold me. But if you're just wanting to do some spirited driving on open roads, the S would probably float your boat. Put the money save into a good audio system.

 

If you upgrade the Brake Pads, Cold Air Intake and Exhaust you'll barely notice the difference, except in your wallet. These upgrades will cost @ $1000.00 versus several thousand difference for the JCW! I drive my wife's 2009 JCW coupe all the time, my Clubman with sports suspension drives better and handles better than hers, for 8 grand less!

 

If you're never going to go past factory JCW power levels, you can just get an RMW tune and you'll be at JCW performance levels.

If you must have a BBK, drop about a grand installed for a TSW BBK or a bit more if you want the JCW brembos.

Pick up some Challenge wheels on the market place for cheap. I got mine for $600 plus tires and TPMS sensors.

The suspension is the same on the S and JCW. Get some nM springs and you're set.

The sport button doesn't improve handling or acceleration btw, it just makes the throttle more responsive and changes the power steering map to be more direct. Also shift points for the AT.

I'd still have gotten a JCW if they were out when I bought my R56. I think on motoringfile they said that the JCW refresh will include an aero kit and spoiler, so that may be worth waiting for.

 

Thanks. When is the JCW refresh coming out?

 

you cant think of the car of power performance but rather its agility. the car is not built for straight line power but rather taking that cloverleaf at 60mph o ya I drive a 08 S

 

http://www.motoringfile.com/2010/04/14/11655/

 

May as well get a base non-S then!

 

Thanks thevelourfog. I know Jan well from my previous Mini and mods I did to it. I will call him later.

How much do you love your r32? I drove one and a new GTI with DSG. I actually really loved the GTI and its 10K less than a similar Mini. And since I drive alot in LA and OC the DSG is always a plus!

 

My wife drives the R32 mostly. It's a lot of fun, pretty quick from a standstill, sounds great, lots of room, great interior, heavy, bad gas mileage in the city, good mileage on the highway, predictable handling with a lot of body roll...

The DSG I have mixed feelings about... On one hand it's amazing in traffic and is generally a better transmission than any automatic or manual... but it's really boring after a while! When I drive the MINI I want to be driving the DSG and when I drive the DSG I miss the manual! Driving in traffic here in LA isn't too bad in the manual unless you're in traffic going less than 4-5 mph, in which case the DSG is a little nicer since it has a low creep speed and you don't have to freak out about slipping your clutch all day or waiting for larger gaps between the car in front of you.

The new GTI is quite nice, I'd strongly consider it if I were car shopping today. Mods are a bit cheaper than the MINI and servicing is cheaper, though VW service blows. A lot of people on these forums will hate on GTIs saying they're too big, heavy, ect and on the track a MINI will decimate a VW, ect... But they're really different cars altogether. My VW has way less quality problems than my MINI,but I still like both cars quite a bit.

 

$10k? A Cooper S needs $10k worth of options to be comparable to a base GTI?

 

Yes a GTI with a DSG and all options except leather (but incredible stereo and media player with Nav) can be had for close to 25K a JCW CLUBMAN close to 40K with same options

 

Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that, because I would say a base (or lightly optioned) Cooper S is comparable to a base GTI, and their base price is quite similar. The biggest contributor to the price gap you claim is the JCW trim level, which accounts for ~$7k, and the extra power and bigger brakes aren't necessary to make the MINI comparable, IMO. Again, we'll probably have to agree to disagree.

 

A GTI is probably more comparable to a Clubman S overall, but it's still a quicker car from a standstill than a JCW, especially with DSG. Both stock suspensions need improvement but the MINI's is much better to me in stock form.

To me, there is no denying that a GTI is better value and better and MUCH more cheaply optioned in most respects than the MINI is, but the MINI is still worth it for the "unique" driving experience.

 

You can get a "NEW" 09 JCW Clubman for huge discounts at the moment. Probably for 31k or so if you really want one. My advice is go for the S because then you have the option of automatic transmission which is easier when you have kids in the car. You'll probably get better gas mileage too. My JCW is not getting great mileage at all.

 

We got our loaded Cooper S on the lot for $27k fully loaded, and the clubman isn't much more than that. Maybe you're looking at the JCW option? The Mazdaspeed 3 has a lot more horsepower, but the SCCA puts the Cooper S and Clubman S and the Mazdaspeed 3 all in D stock because the better handling of the MINI makes it competitive despite the horsepower advantage that is partially mitigated by the MINIs lighter weight.

The JCW Cooper/Clubman on the other hand is in C stock with Ferrari 308/328, BMW M3, Porche 911/914/944, and of course the MX-5. As you can tell by the company, the $40K clubman is in an entirely different class.

 

27k fully loaded? So you have all packages, leather, NAV, xenons, ect for 27k? I need to get your dealers number...

On the street a JCW is pretty comparable to a GTI; track is a different story.

 

I agree that "on paper", the GTI is a better value, especially as you start adding a bunch of options. However, like I said, if we're talking lightly optioned or base, the price difference isn't anywhere near $10k, even if you go with a Clubby.

Personally, when we were shopping MINIs and GTIs, we didn't need the extra space and we didn't want a bunch of extras, so we didn't need the Clubman or a bunch of pricey options on either to make them comparable.

Additionally, there are some things that the MINI has that the GTI doesn't. For one, no matter how many options you buy, the GTI still won't have the character and feel of the MINI, like you said, levourfrog. Additionally, there's no option from VW for the GTI to lose 500lb or get the same gas mileage as the MINI.

Point being, the two cars can only be comparable up to a point. The MINI will never have the cargo area that a GTI does or the option for 4-doors (Countryman, not withstanding)... But the GTI will never weigh 2600lb or have the unique character of the MINI either.

Point being, there are a lot of variable points of comparison, so it's very difficult to put even a generic number on the price difference between "comparable" cars.

 

I'm not saying the GTI is better than the MINI and I've also said that the MINI has certain advantages. They are different cars. For someone who cares at all about options and value, the GTI is certainly better though. For the price of a base S with sunroof you can get a GTI with sunroof, xenons, premium sound, bluetooth, ect for the same price. Add everything to a MINI and you're easily many thousands over the VW. Who really drives a base MINI anyways? There's very few people on the forums here with a base MINI, but more power to them if they can live with no options.

The GTI certainly is heavy and will never be as light or nible as a MINI without extensive mods... But then again, a MINI can never have the easy power gains that a GTI can have! With the cash you save from getting the GTI over an optioned MINI, you can get a 400HP+ turbo kit and coilovers! Then again, one could just get a 2011 V8 mustang and leave it stock.

Completely different cars. There's a reason I'm driving a MINI instead of having two GTIs...

 

Thanks. If I go S or JCW it will be a 6 speed. I guess I need to drive an S soon to see if it is a good match or "enough" for me. In curious of the weight difference between a 3 door GTI and a Clubman S. I think they are very similar in weight?

 

A Clubman S is around 2850-2900 lbs depending on options and a 4 door GTI is about 3030 lbs. Not too much difference! Cooper S coupe is listed at 2720 lbs. All weights gotten from leftlane...