Well the title says it all.

This morning i left the house and it was snowing. There was 1-1/2" on the ground at the house and the plows had not been by yet. So i go up the street to the corner and stop at the stop sign behind a Ford F150 4X4 and a Dodge Durango 4X4. All of us have our left turn signal on and want to turn left. The Hill where the stop is and the Hill turning left are about a 28% grade (25 Degree up angle). The Ford waited for the car coming down the hill to cross in front of him and then tried to get going. He was not moving. He was in four wheel drive and just kept spinning a couple of tires. The Durango and I finaly back up so that he can back up and move out of the way to the side of the road. Then the Durango tries to get moving forward again and he also can not get the vehicle to move forward. No luck for either of them with their 4X4. So what do I do, I put the Clubman in first gear and drive right around them to the stop sign. Both were still trying to get going forward, so i got out and asked both if they would like a tow as my car was doing just fine getting up the hill. Both the drivers just growled at me and said they did not need any help. So i got back in my clubman at the stop sign and drove off taking the the left and going up the hil with out even having the DSC/DTC kick in.

Okay so i have to admint that i have snow tires and the ford also had snow tires but no weight in the vehicle at all. But the Durango had some pretty knoby tires on and really should not have had a probelm. So may be it all came down to driving skill but it still must have been embarrasing for them to have a small front wheel drive car out do thier Big 4X4's. I was laughing all the way to work. I really wish i had video of this. Cause it would make for some really embarrasing posting on 4X4, Ford and Dodge Forums.

 

Sweet! Poor guy's.

 

Schatzy that is awesome I'm sending my 4x4 friends your post because they always give me hell for how my Mini will do in snow.

As I type this my car is at Town Fair Tire getting Toyo Snow Prox S952 put on

 

Yeah! Can you imagine having a picture of a Mini towing a 4X4 thru the snow!

 

We had our first snow (about 2") yesterday, and I was very pleased with how my Clubman handled it, even with stock all-seasons. Coming from a Durango, I was a bit concerned beforehand, but I was delighted. There is a steep hill near my house that cannot be avoided (yes, we do have some big hills in Omaha) -- well, if I did try to avoid it, I'd be taking even steeper hills . No problem going down or up. This is the first time I've driven in snow with a stick, and it was great -- I feel that I have much better control than with an automatic, especially on those pesky hills. I suspect that those extra 3" in the wheelbase help as well.

 

We have more problems on the roads out here with 4x4's than with almost any other car. Poor folks think they can go anywhere just cause they have a 4x4 truck. They don't realize the limitations of the heavy duty drivetrain.

Our Subaru's were the best snow vehicles, even on all terrain tires. I used our Forester to 'plow the driveway' down to 6" of snow so I could get the truck out. If the little WRX had more clearance it would have been nice since it had LSD's.

The Mini has done well in the snow on the stock tires.

Beware, cars that 'go' well in the snow sometimes have a harder time stopping

charlie

 

I'd also like to comment on the durango bit...I was at a stop sign the other day in about 3" of snow up here in Buffalo, and the dodge durango in front of me had a terrible time trying to get going, snow flying everywhere with his tires spinning all over the place. I eased up to the stop sign without a problem, came to a stop (once he got going this is) and just motored on through without issue. This is also my first winter with a manual tranny (proud to say I have one finally, learned on this car a few months ago, and havent looked back since ::knocks on wood:: haven't ground a single gear yet either ) and I must say I really like it in the snow.

Coming from a 95 tbird V8 rwd, Felix gets 2x the gas mileage and 200x the fun (and is MUCH better in the snow).

 

Can you folks who like manual's in the snow talk a little either generally or specifically about what a manual's advantages are in the snow? I have a manual but don't live in a snowy area, but would like to know what to expect when the time comes...thanks.

 

Awesome story Schatzy! I've got my Blizzaks on and have had similar experiences in the last few days.

What kind of tires are you running, out of curiosity?

 

The biggest difference is the ability to control wheel spin by feathering the clutch.

With most automatics once you take your foot off the brake the drive wheels start to move. Sometimes at a much faster rate than you want them to. But even if not that fast or even not moving at all the once the gas is started to be pressed the automatic take over the power and does not allow you to rev the engine but have very little wheel movement.

With the Manual (Stick) and the clutch you control how much of the 3000 RPM's are getting to the actual wheel. Thus if i need some RPM's to get the car moving i can have them but only allow for the wheels to turn very very slowly. The DSC/DTC will not kick in until the drive wheels are spinning faster than the car thinks it is going.

If the automatic was put up to 3000 RPM then the wheels would be moving at what ever rate the transmission wanted until the DSC/DTC told it to stop by reducing the RPM's, or applying the brakes to keep the car under control. I.E. Much less control of the forward/reverse movement of the car.

I hope this helps you understand it a bit more. If not let us know and we can try to use some other terms to help.

 

Dunlop Winter Sport 3D runflats.

 

Score +2 for MINI's. Nicely done schatzy62!

I'm in Seattle and we're in a big cold snap. Driving to work there are far fewer cars then usual and most have been 4x4's and Subarus. My Clubman has been handling it wonderfully! (All season tires and LSD FWIW)

I have the choice of the MINI or my husband's Diesel Jeep Liberty (poor guy got it to run biodeisel and has to suffer with poor handling). In these conditions (any 99% of conditions) I'll take the MINI over his Liberty (only made the diesel in automatic too, yuk) thank you very much.

 

Thanks! Did you downsize to 16" and stick with RFTs, or did you stay with 17" and go non-RFT? Again, just curious...

 

You have more control with a manual trans. It won't shift when you don't want it to. Better control of the car for cornering. Instant weight transfer to keep from oversteering. In an auto if you need to power out, you will have to wait for the downshift to happen first, which might be too late.
I couldn't get my car up a hill (steep) with eagle f1 all seasons in slush. I got up it in reverse though . I hate when they plow roads. Theres defiently more traction in snow than after they plow, salt, and half melt the crap that never gets cleared with the plow.

 

I'm heading just after Christmas to the mountains above Los Angeles, and will need to bring chains along (CA Highway Patrol has no tolerance about allowing alternatives to old school chains). I haven't bought chains in over a decade. Anything I should know about or consider for my Justaclubman?

If the weather continues the way its been, there will probably be a lot of ice around at 6,000 feet, and I will have to drive about a quarter mile on a dirt road that will not be plowed regularly.

Thanks, and sorry for the slightly OT questions.

 

Down sized to 16" to get a larger side wall, the roads where i go skiing are pretty bad come this time of year.

Went with the runflats. I really do not mind the ride.

 

Utah is the same way in the mountains around Salt Lake City.

I would check with your dealer They used to sell tire chain for Mini's It was in an older catalog so they may still be available

 

I have to differ a little bit. I like an auto in snow about the same as a manual. Just takes a different 'feel'. And, usually need to use the manual gear selection in most circumstances.

charlie

 

One word...CONTROL

Ok....Besides what schatzy said....A huge plus is stopping and slowing. Winter accidents don't happen on acceleration they happen when the brakes are applied. Simply downshifting and allowing the engine to do the braking virtually eliminates sliding. When the streets are bad I will drive all over town and never touch my brakes except to come to a complete stop from 1st gear.

 

I am completely amazed at how well our MINIs do in the snow, especially with a good set of winter tires.

I have similar stories as well- seems that people who are "convinced" that they need a big 4x4 are even more flabbergasted when they see a MINI go past them without any trouble.

 

I experience this scenario a lot: light turns red on a road with two lanes going the same direction. Snowy conditions, I'm the first to arrive at the light (equipped with Nokian snows).

I watch in my rearview as all the sport futilities with their all season tires change lanes so as not to get stuck behind the little car when the light turns.

Light turns green and I leave them all behind. So much fun!

 

Just talked to the parts department at Bob Smith, and he says they only suggest "cables". Of course they are backordered for at least two weeks and $300.

I don't buy that cables are the only answer. While I'll admit it is a number of years ago, the CHP here would not allow you to use them on some roads. I had a pair for an Audi A4, and ran into a problem going skiing once.

The manual for the car on Mini's website says:

Time to do more research, and call another dealer.

 

Fit whatever chains will work in the fender wells. I had good luck with cable chains on ice. They don't work as well in packed snow.

 

I called two other local dealers, Universal City and Alexander. I get the impression people in Southern California rarely ask about Mini's and snow.

The parts guy at Alexander just regurgitated the same story Bob Smith said, but Universal City was pretty helpful. The gentleman claimed that if you have standard 175/65 - 15 tires that are not run-flats, normal chains "should" be fine. I'll head over to Kragen or Pep Boys and look around for the fine link type mentioned in the Mini manual.

Updated:

I checked a number of sites including that of the California Department of Motor Vehicles, Caltrans, and the Highway Patrol, and in fact cable type chains, are completely legal. Apparently a while back the laws were clarified, and the State no longer uses the term chains, in order to assure that other "traction devices" are condoned.

Consequently I did a lot of research on cable chains, and decided to try the Security Chain Super Z6 SZ119 (http://www.amazon.com/Security-Chain.../dp/B000HZFDO6).

 

Yes!

The Clubbie is better than my 06 Cooper in the snow!

We got 4-5" last night and I drive to work @ 5:30AM so it's usually before the plows are finished.....the DSC works flawlessly.

I also use snow tires...Blizzack's for winter.


Dave