Help! I'm Attempting the Impossible!
 

So my wife isn't the biggest fan of manual transmissions. The problem is, I love them. When I ordered my R53, I gave in and got the automatic, and while I like it well enough, I can't help but imagine how fantastic the car would have been with the 6-speed manual.

Now I've ordered a Clubman S, again with the automatic, but I'm itching to drop it in favor of the Getrag 6-speed. From the reviews I've read, it's a revelation. And I want it. My chances are slim, but I have to try.

My question to you all. How forgiving (or not) is the manual versus those in other cars you've driven? My wife's chief complaint is that she can't drive stick (she can - I taught her - she just never took the time to get proficient with it), and so any time we took the Mini anywhere, I'd have to drive. I'm trying to make the argument that she'd pick it up pretty fast, but don't have any direct experience with the new unit in the R56/R55.

For reference, she learned on a '95 Defender 90 with a very tight clutch and a shifter that looked like it came straight out of a school bus.

Any other arguments that come to mind (I've already got fuel economy, weight, efficiency, more engaging, and the fact that I want it covered) would also be appreciated...

Better control over the machines, man!

Today, its' automatic trannys. Tomorrow, Skynet goes live, and Terminator T-100's will be gunning us all down...

Fight for control while you still can!!!

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spend one afternoon in an empty parking lot, then get out on the road. It will take about a week to fully get used to it. BTW the new Clubman has a feature that holds the brake when taking off from a hill. No need to use the parking brake. That should be a plus.

Tell her it will be FUN!:grin:

If I could have, I would have bought a 6 speed myself.

Also, I've heard it's a very smooth and easy shifter.:nod:

P.S. Very funny about the machines!
P.S.S. Interesting about that hill holding ability, too.

Let me give you a different perspective. I have got a '05 R53 S with the 6-speed Getrag manual. Terrific gearbox. The clutch? Very dubious quality. The MINI OEM clutches either last 100K miles or die all of a sudden at 25K miles. It is a crap shot. My extremely well cared for R53 clutch died at 25K miles last year. The dealer replaced the entire factory clutch kit, no questions asked. they even showed me another car (R52 S convertible) with the same exact crappy feeling clutch as mine. Because of this experience, I decided to bite the bullet and purchase the MINI scheduled service extension to 6 years/100K miles. The service contract does cover the entire clutch kit. I plan to keep this car for 10 years (At least). The second replacement clutch is holding up much better than the factory one at at nearly 40K miles I am hoping it will outlast the first one. Time will tell. While I love the level of driver involvement afforded by the manual transmission, I doubt my next MINI will be manual. I am really pleased and impressed with the AISIN automatic in our Clubman S. My wife does not drive manual and she is simply not interested in learning it. (Totally futile attempt). If need be, my wife can not drive my car in an emergency. It something happens to me on a roadtrip in my car, we will be stranded, dead on the water. I have owned so far 2 manual R53 S MINIs and its been fun and all. But now that we have a baby and we'll be taking more roadtrips in years to come, having 2 automatic cars in the household is a priority. I am not a stick shift snob. I don't subscribe to that mentallity. I do appreciate a good transmission, whether it is auto, manual or DSG. But for practicality and durability an automatic is the way to go. Just some food for taught. Some of you would say that it is great that your wife can't drive your car. Personally, I don't mind my wife driving and enjoying my car. After all, it is her car too (As much as hers is mine). Manual transmissions are fun. But MINI needs to improve the quality of the OEM clutches. Until then, I will make the switch to the rock solid and reliable Japanese made AISIN automatic.

I have found that the MINI manual transmission is very forgiving and it is probably due to the heavy OEM flywheel. The Getrag in S models have dual cone syncronizers that makes shifting extremely easy and precise. I will be the first one to come out and say that I am not a fan of the OEM clutch in the second gen MINI. It is too light and has no feedback. The engagement point takes some time to get used to. I much prefer the tighter and heavier feel of the OEM R53 S clutch. It has feedback, a great engagement point and has the overall feel of a racing clutch. I would also say this.... A new car is not the ideal place for a newbie to learn stick shift. Like it or not you are going to put an undue amount of wear on the clutch and transmission while the person learns. Some folks get it right away, others take a longer learning curve and some others never. I think anyone looking to learn manual transmission should do so in a beater and a car that requires more effort to clutch and shift so they learn the skill well. And if they kill the car in the process it will not be nearly as bad as burning the clutch in your new $30K toy. Talk to your wife and before making any changes to the order, try to see if she is open to the idea of a manual transmission car and to the learning process involved. If she is not, you are going to be stuck with a car that no one but yourself can drive. Like I said, maybe that is fine and dandy in everyday life, but if something happens to you hundreds of miles away from home in that car, you will be left stranded because the wife won't be able to drive the car. Best of luck. This is a decision that needs to be made and agreed upon the TWO of you. All of us here in cyberspace are just spectators.

Interesting ClubmanS and I know you're not alone in your point of view. I've always been very happy to enjoy my automatic MINIs, have always found them very agile and am looking forward to the "new" AISIN.

Don't let your wife read this Doogs - that is unless you decide that you don't need to fight for this standard shift aspect.:wink:

I'm in a somewhat similar situation...

We were shopping for new cars in order for my wife to be able to drive a smaller car when she's not doing the carpool run to school. I dearly wanted another stick shift but 'er indoors refuses to learn. I was convinced that I was going to end up w/a DSG equipped car (4dr GTI or A3) but after driving the Aisin - I was happy to "settle" on an automatic. The shifts are almost as quick as DSG and the fact that you can almost redline it w/the paddles seals the deal. I guess the only real drawback is the lack of LSD availability.

Good luck in your quest!

I've got the Aisin in my R53 MCS. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good automatic...the shifts are great...but it's still an automatic. It doesn't yield the same visceral feeling of working the clutch and rowing your own. Sometimes it overreacts (kicks to 3rd under hard acceleration...can be extremely jarring) and sometimes it just can't do what you want (non-sequential downshifting...) Can't count the number of times I've been caught making the left into my neighborhood at 15 mph in 6th gear because the stupid box didn't react quick, or had my head thrown at the steering wheel because it kicked down to far into 1st gear.

I feel lucky, my Fiance insists on manual transmission in her cars. :thumbsup:

We recently test drove a MINI. She's got a 98 Subaru, I've got an '04 Jetta TDI, and we are each thrown off a bit by the other's clutch and very different torque/hp curves. We both got into the same MINI and neither one of us had an issue with shifting at all. It was easy, smooth, intuitive. We didn't even think about the shifting.

MINI improved the shifting programming of the Aisin in the R55 Clubman. I have driven the R53 S with the Aisin and in my opinion, the programming in the Clubman is much better.

Make a pact with her. See if your dealer will let you borrow a car for a couple of hours and let her drive in your neighborhood and on small street in the beginning. As she gets more proficient try some other venues. DO NOT PUSH THE SPORT BUTTON UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES until she is comfortable. The feel and response is completely different so don't confuse her. Good Luck

easiest clutch ive ever had.

Doogs I've owned many small performance cars and all of them had a manual trans. I've driven a few Honda S2000's which is considerd by many to have the best manual transmission ever put in a car.

My Mini S has the smoothest operating tranny I've ever driven. The gates are smooth and very esay to find after a few minutes in the car. The clutch is very easy to operate and isn't jerky at all even with the sport mode on. IF she can drive stick she can drive and with time may even enjoy the manual in the Mini.

My Wife loves it and wouldn't have the car any other way.

I just sold my 05 VW Jetta (manual) for my 2008 MCS (manual). I was originally going to buy an automatic because as I drive in the DC area, I have a tendancy to sit in a lot of traffic. I found that the Jetta's clutch had to be depressed VERY far (about 1.5 feet). Because I am a 5'1" woman, that forced me to sit close to the steering wheel and always lift my leg up a ridiculous amount to engage the clutch. This was causing me discomfort in my left knee from the amount of clutching that I had to do.

After driving both the Clubman and Cooper (S and non-S), I realized that the feel of a MINI clutch and stick shift are dramatically different from my previous car and decided to go with a manual.

After having my 08 MCS for a week, I have noticed that the MINI is a much easier manual to drive for me than my Jetta was. The clutch, to me, has a much shorter gripping point, but I can still feel it grip. Also, I think it is much smoother to shift and clutch than my Jetta and my husband's 07 Mazda Speed3. Finally, having more horsepower makes the car more forgiving than my Jetta so I don't have to constantly have to shift 1-2-3, 1-2-3 in traffic! Even sitting in traffic, I have noticed that

Overall, I would definitely recommend having your wife test drive the MINI and see what she thinks! (If she's not happy with it and you still get it, though, you might hear about it for a while... I know I am guilty of that with my husband sometimes... :wink: )

Thank you all for your very helpful replies. Glad to hear there's somewhat of a consensus over how easy and precise the 6-spd is!

In the reading, though, I noticed a few things I wanted to clarify:

First - My wife CAN drive stick. I taught her in my '95 Defender 90. She got past the parking lot stage and out onto the road, but cars and hills had her freaked out a little bit.

Second - This Clubman's already on order, and scheduled for production in a week and a half, so there's not too much time to dither if I want to change it.

Third - No chances of a test drive. We live in Austin, and the nearest Mini dealer is in San Antonio. With taking care of our two week old son, there's no way she'd agree to an hour-and-a-half drive just to test drive a car and then head back.

Fourth - I appreciate everything you've said regarding the manuals and clutch reliability, Clubman S. Very good to know. But, so long as it'll be covered or can be covered by something, I'm not terribly worried. If reliability were my paramount concern, I'd have learned to stay away from British cars long ago!

If this is your only car, I think that you are asking for trouble by forcing a manual transmission on your wife if she doesn't want one. My wife originally taught me to drive a stick many years ago but she doesn't want anything to do with a stick in her car.

As far as the clutch being covered under warranty, it is a crapshoot. MINI will not cover a clutch that has been subject to driver abuse - they will cover it if they can easily determine that there was some defect that lead to the clutch failure.

Good luck on your decision and if you get the stick, report back on how it's going after a few weeks.

I'm ordering a Clubman S this week with a manual. It's a great manual transmission; one of the best I've ever tried. Clutch does not have a long throw and is easy to modulate. I've had two manual BMW's in the past and had a hard time with the long travel of the clutch pedal. I'm a short woman and if I happened to be wearing flexible sandals I could hardly get the clutch pedal completely depressed. I finally resorted to keeping a heavy clog-type shoe (but only the left shoe) in the car and I would switch to the clog before driving!

Needless to say, the Mini is nothing like that. Since I don't drive in stop & go traffic, I won't even consider an automatic in the Mini.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

We have two cars. My R53, which will be traded for the Clubman, and her Honda CR-V. Even before the kiddo was born, I was the only person in the Mini 90% of the time. Since he's been born, it's been 100%. Anytime we take him anywhere, it's in the CR-V. The Clubbie will have more space than my MCS, but I'd bet we'll still take the CR-V most of the time when the three of us go places.

Per Clubman S, the clutch is covered under factory maintenance.

Also, the manual does have a hill feature that allows for a couple seconds before the car can roll backwards - hill assist or something like that...

Good to hear! I've owned two manuals in my life - that '95 Defender and a 2002 Mazda Protege5. The Defender's clutch took a lot of force and had a very long travel, and unless it was in 4-LO it was far from forgiving. Lots of shuddering unless you got the gas/clutch modulation just so. The P5 was better in that regard, but the shifts were pretty slushy...

Update...

I've talked with the wife, and she said she'd think about it. Which is a whole lot better than the flat "NO!" I got when ordering Mini 1.

Fingers crossed!

Good luck. If she already drives stick, then that changes the outcome a whole lot.

My wife hasn't driven the MINI yet (1200 miles) but we've had VW's, a BMW 325 and now a Mazda3i Hatch. She had no problems with the VW's, but thought the BMW clutch had a long throw and high engagement, as did I, and never got used to it. She thinks the Mazda is the smoothest shifting car she's had. I personally think she'll have a problem with pushing to the side to get 6th, because I have to think about that still. Then also, that's where R is on the Mazda. :eek:

Too late for me...

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