Well, I know of at least one guy that AutoX's a V70 and does pretty damned good And the "R"s are nothing to scoff at either. I had an S60R blow by me on the Autobahn one morning like I was standing still... and I was doing around 210kph (~130mph)

 

I'm hoping Volvo makes a C30R.

 

THAT would be sweet 300hp & AWD would make up for alot of crappy interior...

 

I'm disappointed at some of the mean/misinformed responses to the Autoweek article. One of the things I like about this board is how kind people are. There's a Volvo board I rarely frequent anymore because of how condescending and "holier-than-thou" some people can be. (Try www.volvospeed.com for those that think that all Volvo owners are stodgy intelectuals.)

IMO, the article isn't far off when it comes to the Mini. I am a bit puzzled by the quote about the equipment though. The C30 will fall into the same category as the Mini, a premium compact car. To sell such a car for $10K more than a comparable sized car (Corolla, Fit, Versa) it needs to be chock full of extras like the fancy wheels, traction control, good handling, and oh yeah, it has to be cool. The Mini IS about style and the cool factor. Otherwise, why bother paying many thousands more for a Mini when a Corolla has just about everything that the Mini offers and more minus the suspension and cool factor? Volvo is shooting for the same market, and stands a good chance to have a roomier, more comfortable interior space. Volvo has long been known for their comfy seats.

I don’t care what anybody says, the Mini has a cramped interior, period. I’m not saying that it’s any worse than other comparable sized car (or even those bigger), but it is pretty tight. Sure, even I (at 6’4”) don’t put the seat the whole way back (like I do in most every other car I get into), but the Mini is still cramped and uncomfortable for my frame. I took my 6’4”, 280lb. father in law for a ride in the Mini. We were practically shoulder-to-shoulder in it.

I certainly didn’t buy a Mini because I thought they were a good deal for the money. I bought the Mini because it’s stylish and fun to drive. The Mini is quirky, and from what I’ve seen on this board, it’s got quite a few quality issues. For the money, I would be pretty disappointed with it if I didn’t like it so darn much. I could have bought a top-spec Corolla for a lot less. It had more interior space and consistently gave 10MPG more than my Mini does. It would certainly have fewer quality issues. Apples and oranges perhaps, but comparing car for your motoring dollar...

--Will

 

were that she was dismissive of a massive market hit on purely superficial understanding of the success of the marque. Not only that, but since Volvo is aiming for a market space that overlaps significantly with those that bought optioned Minis, she's insulted some of the very customers that she's hoping to sell to. According to her, we all bought a compramized car based on it being cute. She doesn't understand that the success is because of the lack of compramise (not total absence) in such a short package, that it appeals to and satisfies the needs of a surprisingly large part of the marketplace. While it's easy to cherry pick quotes to slant something, someone in her position shouldn't be so dissmissive of what is arguably the standard of success by which others in this segment will be judged.

For those that are dismissive of Volvo because of rep, get a bit longer pespective. There was a time when some surprisingly (now) bland or ghastly brands were king of the performance mountain. Time changes a lot of things, and if Volvo is successfull in transforming the product line, while maintaining a reputation for safety, they'll be fine in the marketplace.

Matt

 

I loved my 95 Volvo 850 Wagon. It served it's purpose, and I thought the interior held up well. I did replace motor mounts on it more times than I thought I should have. I thought about buying the Mini for a long time before actually doing it since I tend to drive cars several years before trading for something new and improved. The Corolla, as well as the Fit, Yaris, etc., doesn't have 4-wheel disc brakes nor the DSC. Choosing the Mini was a no-brainer for me.

 

The main reason that made me change from '05 S40 to '06 MCS is fun factor. My old S40 looks good on the street, but lack of fun.
May be C30R AWD might do the job.

 

well said, rehsper!

Let me also point out that we are not entirely sure whether the Volvo CEO was quoted in the proper context. The autoweek article did not include the actual question posed to her, it just included the response. The comments may not have been made in a condescending tone as many here are taking them to be. But let's be real about this, as fun as MINIs are to drive, they would not get anywhere near the sales they have if they didn't look as good as they do. I'm still puzzled about the comment suggesting that MINIs are not well-equipt because they come standard with quite a bit. But from all I've read about the C30 in the automotive press(which is usually quite critical of Volvos, at least from a performance standpoint) it sounds like it is a great car. I don't know if it can be directly compared to a MINI, but I think it will be successful world-wide and hopefully in the U.S. as well. I definitely plan on picking one up from Sweden via the European delivery program as soon as my MINI is paid off

BTW, rehsper, mad respect for your owning an 850. The 850 IMHO is one of the most underrated cars of all-time, it might be the best car Volvo has ever built.

 

There's no doubt that MINIs are more fun to drive than the S40. While the S40 is a great car, it's not even in the same category as MINIs. However, the T5 is much more fun than the 2.4, and it's rumored that the U.S. C30 will get the T5 engine so it should be pretty quick off the line (probably just over 6 seconds to 60).

 

Where's the insult in her quote? I read it as she recognizes that the Mini is a hit and that market exists for a "cool" car. She's not dismissive of the the Mini. The fact that she "quotes" the Mini shows that. The Mini is a great example that people are willing to pay a premium price for a car that is "cool", regardless of it's "equipment". She's saying that the C30 is aiming to get a piece of that market.

What the C30 is missing is the pedigree of the Mini. The P1800 that it hints at isn't the iconic car that original Mini was. Though some "The Saint" advertising would be cool... The Mini was perfect for a resurrection because it still fit into the mold of a modern car (small, FWD). They were able to give it a Mini-like identity that is more than skin deep. Not so with VW's New Beetle. It's Beetleness ends at the body shape.

 

Thanks! Not to take this thread too far off the beaten path, but yeah, I really like my 850. Like any Volvo, the 850 is not without it's own quirks (ABS controllers, AC condensors, etc.), but I can see myself driving 850's for a long, long time. Best car they ever built? Tough call between it and the 240. Maybe the 850 is the best car and the 240 Wagon is the best truck (Volvo or otherwise) ever built.

 

Yea, both my dad and my little sister own silver 97 850s. My dad's is the base engine and he's had pretty much no problems after 150k miles. My sister's is a GLT and it has only recently had some problems after about 140k miles. The 240 is also a great car, I had an 87 DL named the Blue Biatch my last semester of college and I just sold it in June. It was painfully slow (it needed a little work) but it was solid at 190k miles The Volvo I miss most though is my 89 740 Turbo wagon

 

I agree.

"From an equipment basis, the Mini does not add up," Belec says, "but people have to have it because it's cool." could also be interpreted to mean that a MINI is more than the sum of its parts, which I think we all agree is true.

 

Thank you for the confirmation of my earlier post.

 

As I said, the MINI wouldn't be nearly as popular if it weren't for it's looks. I think that's what initially attracts most people, then they actually drive it and it's as good as sold at that point.

 

I didn't have to have it because it was cool. I had to had it because of the combination of handling and performance. For me and my uses, the list of equipment added up perfectly! For those wanting a station wagon that hauls 7 people and groceries, it doesn't add up.

I'm actually curious, what list of equipment on a car does add up?


Matt

 

......hmmm........ .....no take from Chows? Must be at the Ford ...err...Volvo dealer.

 

I admit the quote is a bit perplexing, but I think you're taking too much offense. We don't know if she elaborated on the statement or not, and as I said it may have been taken out of context. Again, I think we can all admit that there are MINI owners who buy the car because it is "cool." So on further examination, I kind of agree with her. She didn't say, EVERYONE who buys a MINI only does so because it's cool.

From Volvo's point of view, they know that their cars are not generally viewed as being "cool." Therefore in order to be successful with younger buyers, they need to offer more standard options in order to sell a sufficient number of cars. While standard MINIs come with some good features, it can be a very costly car once a lot of people get all of the options they want. So perhaps she was talking about the need for more options being standard on the Volvo C30 in order for it to be competitive in the U.S. market.

 

but I think we can all agree that she could have chosen her words more carefully. The fact that I took it as I did and I LIKE the idea of the C30 is an indication of that.

Or maybe it's just me!

Matt

 

I took it as her saying the C30 is a better car with more features for a similar price.

But I dont really care, why would anyone? The C30 is cool, but it's not a mini.

As for the S40 T5, I almost bought one back when I bought my '05 Saab 9-3.

Being a young kid (18 at the time), the dealership treated me like a real customer and was very helpful. Prolly b/c my parents were with me, but still. The person that said they had a bad experience must've had a bad dealer.

Anyway, the S40/C30, imo, is not as nice as the Cooper S. Pricing is similar, especially since Volvo often knocks a good chunk off the msrp. But I think the mcs is a better driving, more solid vehicle.

I think it's better than my 2005 9-3SS as well.

 

You can build your own C30 at C30 Intro The car will be smaller than the S40, and come with only the 215hp T5 engine. Standard wheels seem to be 18". It tries to capture the feel of the 1800.

 

I do think she could have chosen her words more carefully. But maybe she genuinely hates MINIs. It doesn't really matter though because the MINI has been a huge success regardless of the reasons, what's more impressive is how it has sustained success for 5 years now. A car doesn't do that by just looking "cool." I can guarantee that every competitor envies MINI's position in the marketplace. However, I still think the C30 has great potential and it will carve out it's own niche in the small car market. But I don't think it is going to be in direct competition anyway (In the Fifth Gear video it was described as "more premium than sporty"). And unless the R56 ends up being a failure(which it looks like it is going to be a great car) MINI's place at the top is very safe from any competition.

 

cars with more power will take a few, cars with a bit more refinement will take a few. Cars faster around a track will take a few. Cars will AWD will take a few (maybe a lot!).... I just hope the whole market for this segment grows in the US so there can be a lot more "winners" in the segment, and decrease the size of the average vehicle on the roads!

Matt

 

Wow - it's amazing how much MIS-information is being posted in this thread! I thought this crowd would have taken a more intelligent approach towards this, not just trash the car because it's not a MINI...

I own 2 classic Volvos and am fairly active in both national Volvo clubs (Yes, there are 2 - why isn't there a national MINI club yet?) Personally I'm looking forward to seeing this car in person, and I'll reserve judgement until then. The reviews at present are all based on the Euro versions of this car - the US specs have not been released yet. But it seems probable that the US wont get all the choices that the Europeans get. Last I checked there were 5 engine choices in Europe for the C30 (1 for Sweden only) - we'll most likely only get 2. This is typical of Volvo, and I'll never understand it - because the US is their biggest market - they sell more cars here than anywhere else. Sometimes they don't even offer all their Colors to the US...

How's that saying go - "Imitation is the more sincere form of flattery" - and certainly the original Mini has been the most imitated car in history. The Volvo guys say that the 1800ES inspired this design, but it doesn't take an automotive designer to see that they are going after the "premium small car market" that MINI practically invented...

 

^arent you the dude from the saturn forum?