>>Y'all read THIS ya hear.

More left wing socialist propaganda. Keep telling yourself over and over and over again that the Iraqi situation is all about oil. Keep on telling yourself that, brainwash yourself with hatred over the matter! Keep telling yourself the Bush admin wants to do it all for themselves. Keep on!

There is much more to it than oil. You are blinded by your hatred of the Bush administration and you are not able to see anything but oil.

People who are not able to look at ALL the FACTS, but only choose to look at a few facts are blinded by their own hatred and stereotypes and lose in the long run as things get by them that they do not expect because they are so brainwashed into thinking a single thing. I find it very sad and am happy people like this don't have any power in the real world.

On a wider thing, I love all the people complaining about wasting precious oil on SUVs and such and complaining about the Iraqi oil fields while you drive your gas guzzling car all over town. If you think oil is bad, sell your MINIs and other cars and take public transportation and stop being oxymorons.

_________________
MCS Chili Red/ White roof, all options, Leather from SLC dealer. With Passport 8500 radar detector, Alpine CDA-7894 deck, JL Audio 300/4 amp, all JL Audio speakers, and XM Radio.

 

I have not seen the ad, but I think oil money supports terrorism. :smile:

Who knows? A couple of hundred of years from now, kids will probably ask "Why did people drive everywhere? It seems so backward & old fashioned."

_________________


MCS,Prod date 9/14/02. Motoring since 11/7/2002

 

To add to what HighAnxiety said I hope that you all will join me in praying that Navy Lt. Capt. Michael Speicher is alive.

If you are unaware of his situation there is plenty to read here.

He was shot down over Iraq in 1991, and there is still a very good chance that he is alive and being held a POW.

 

>>To add to what HighAnxiety said I hope that you all will join me in praying that Navy Lt. Capt. Michael Speicher is alive.
>>
>>If you are unaware of his situation there is plenty to read here.
>>
>>He was shot down over Iraq in 1991, and there is still a very good chance that he is alive and being held a POW.

I truly believe he is still alive and is a POW in Iraq. Being that my godfather was a POW in Vietnam for 6 years... I want our Navy pilot back right now!! There is nothing I wouldn't support to get him back right now! I'm disappointed we haven't already gone looking for him.


_________________
MCS Chili Red/ White roof, all options, Leather from SLC dealer. With Passport 8500 radar detector, Alpine CDA-7894 deck, JL Audio 300/4 amp, all JL Audio speakers, and XM Radio.

 

anyone here worried about that hole in the ozone layer? 'cause really at the end it's all that really matters unless someone starts using nukes.so, how about lets all stop driving and give the bicycling industry a boost.

 

>>More left wing socialist propaganda. Keep telling yourself over and over and over again that the Iraqi situation is all about oil.

Well, I am a left wing socialist! =) Could you tell me what the pending war in Iraq is really about then? And if you think that we are going to war because of the threat of weapons of mass destruction, realize that if such a weapon were to detonate on US soil, the American People would be so pissed off, that whichever country of terrorist group was responsible would be flattened permenantly. Realize that the United States carries the biggest stick. We have the greatest military in the world, Saddam Hussien is no dummy, his concern is solely the Middle East.

Back to the topic at hand....

I have recently started an anti-SUV flyering campaign. Check out http://www.geocities.com/unfpartykid/SUVterror.htm to see what my flyer looks like.

SUVs are a trend, they are not utilitarian. If someone wants an SUV for the passenger space, buy a minivan or station wagon (a Toyota Matrix is cool, right?) If someone wants to tow a boat, how about a regular van or pick-up? Shoot, I would even think it would be alreight if someone owned a SUV to carry passengers and tow a boat, just as long as they get an efficient vehicle BEFORE the boat. A classmate of mine drives a 1974 Vette. When he has to work or commute, he drives an old Nissan Sentra. Smart guy.

Realize that if it weren't for oil, the entire Middle East would be more like Africa, UNDEVELOPED. There would be no conflict between the Palestenians and Israelis. Saddam Hussein would not be able to afford weapons of mass destruction. Radical Islamic groups would not have the money to promote its ideals or even be concerned with them for they would most likely be too concerned about where their next meal comes from.

Last thing I'd like to say... I am going to D.C. next weekend to protest the war in Iraq. I feel so wonderful doing this, being my first protest and all. (if I get arrested, anyone in D.C. willing to lend a hand? lol)

 

>>Well, I am a left wing socialist! =) Could you tell me what the pending war in Iraq is really about then? And if you think that we are going to war because of the threat of weapons of mass destruction, realize that if such a weapon were to detonate on US soil, the American People would be so pissed off, that whichever country of terrorist group was responsible would be flattened permenantly. Realize that the United States carries the biggest stick. We have the greatest military in the world, Saddam Hussien is no dummy, his concern is solely the Middle East.
>>

a) he is a dummy
b) he doesn't care about the size of our stick.
c) if we flatten them permanantly, what about the poor innocents? Don't forget, we lost 3000 people, and Heaven forbid a bomb goes astray and kill a couple innocents in Afghanistan. That wasn't mass destruction?

 

>>
>>>>Well, I am a left wing socialist! =) Could you tell me what the pending war in Iraq is really about then? And if you think that we are going to war because of the threat of weapons of mass destruction, realize that if such a weapon were to detonate on US soil, the American People would be so pissed off, that whichever country of terrorist group was responsible would be flattened permenantly. Realize that the United States carries the biggest stick. We have the greatest military in the world, Saddam Hussien is no dummy, his concern is solely the Middle East.
>>>>
>>
>>a) he is a dummy
>>b) he doesn't care about the size of our stick.
>>c) if we flatten them permanantly, what about the poor innocents? Don't forget, we lost 3000 people, and Heaven forbid a bomb goes astray and kill a couple innocents in Afghanistan. That wasn't mass destruction?

Saddam is no dummy. You don't start a coup and maintain power for 20 some years, and for the most part stability, in a nation like Iraq in an area like the Middle East without being some what intelligent.


He miscalculated during the gulf war thinking that with the Cold War ending, our economy not so hot and the military downsizing that he could get away with invading Kuwait. Nobody else in the world could have stopped him but us so he took a calculated risk and lost big time.


Innocents are going to die in wars no matter what it is just a matter of probability but we must do whatever we can do minimize the loss of innocent life. In order to maintain legitimacy with our own citizens and the international community, yes no matter what certain people say or what they wish the international community does matter the US needs to hold the moral high ground. We can't very well hold the moral high ground if we go around bombing innocents all the time even if it is by accident. When we do that we are no better then the terrorists and then we lose.

I think there is something else that many people do not realize when events like this happen. These countries are not democracies, republics, or even soft dictatorships/aristocracies they are hard core authortarian dictatorships. These people don't have the right to choose their own gov't and in general are not responsible for its policies. They don't have freedom of press, speech, religon, assembly or arms.

Most people in these countries do not have enough power to effect their gov't much and should not be punished for what their gov't does.

 

>>>>More left wing socialist propaganda. Keep telling yourself over and over and over again that the Iraqi situation is all about oil.
>>
>>Well, I am a left wing socialist! =) Could you tell me what the pending war in Iraq is really about then?

Here's why we want to go to war:

1. Stop Saddam from paying Suicide Bombers in Palestine. Stop him from financing them and their families.
2. Stop giving aid to terrorists in the form of training, safe harbor and first aid.
3. Stop developing chemical/biological weapons.
4. Stop brutalizing his own people... through turtore, rape, death.
5. Stop Saddam from ever developing any weapon of mass destruction.
6. Stop Saddam from terrorizing his neighbors.

>>And if you think that we are going to war because of the threat of weapons of mass destruction, realize that if such a weapon were to detonate on US soil, the American People would be so pissed off, that whichever country of terrorist group was responsible would be flattened permenantly. Realize that the United States carries the biggest stick. We have the greatest military in the world, Saddam Hussien is no dummy, his concern is solely the Middle East.

Got it, you are a socialist. At least you admit it. Let's see if I have this right... we must first be struck by a nuclear weapon and get freakin whooped hardcore before we can take action?? WOW... very novel. Great plan. So we must lose thousands of lives before we can act. SCARY. Good thing you aren't in charge of national security.

Socialism is an interesting thing. Most socialists (over 50%) are college students and college aged students and younger. Why?? Because they have very little money and make very little money and live in Utopia because financial aid and mom and dad pay their way FOR the most part, not the rule though.

Socialism DOESN'T work. Let me repeat that... socialism does NOT work. If you want more out of life, work harder. If you don't make enough money, take more chances and work harder. Don't like how the US government is run, run for office and present REAL solutions to the problems. Merely complaining about the problems is not a solution (see Democratic 2002 campaign).

This whole thing doesn't make sense... people say the Iraq war is all about oil, but they drive cars of course that eat up that oil. Ummmm... you're aiding to the problem guys.

It is easy to point blame and complain, but it is very difficult to accept opposing viewpoints and present valid solutions.

I love thrashing socialists, I'm a bad boy.

PS. Thank you Bush for the tax cut. Appreciate it. Tired of paying more than my fair share of taxes.

_________________
MCS Chili Red/ White roof, all options, Leather from SLC dealer. With Passport 8500 radar detector, Alpine CDA-7894 deck, JL Audio 300/4 amp, all JL Audio speakers, and XM Radio.

 

As I sit here on a Naval Ship in an undisclosed location I read all of these comments and find myself quite upset at how America is treating itself. We are so quick to blame eachother for the "wrongs" that we do. Take a look around yourself, we have it pretty good. I would give my left arm to be back in my mini right now, wasting as much gas as I could just to have some fun zipping aroud some @$$ kickin curves. I would like to think that I'm out here for a reason. Now am I to believe that my wife, who drives an SUV (Honda CR-V, 24 mpg), is a terrorist supporter. Hell no she isn't, she's in the military too. I hope that everyone has had some real dedication to America before they cast stones at other Americans. I'm not talking about the Boy or Girl Scouts either.

We have thousands of troops being deployed for one sole reason, to defeat terrorism! Guess what, those deployed troops have to get there somehow. Do you think were going to walk, hell no. Were going to be in some of the biggest gas guzzlers that humanity has ever devised. You wouldn't believe how much jet fuel it takes to transport just a hundred troops and a few tanks and hummers to the mid-east. This SUV crap that we're all talking about is just that, crap. Whats more, this will probably end up being someones research paper in a year entitled "How I Got Americas Attention".

Anything that is produced in this world is based on oil. It's the truth. Those plastic seat cranks in the Mini, how the hell do you think they're made? Do you think all this nifty stuff in the world just appears?

My mother has one of those anoying huge SUVs, a ford Excursion I think. The only reason I don't like it is becxause I can't see around the damned thing when she drives in front of me. I don't sit at the gas station and look at her with distrust because she's funding terrorists. Come on, this is stupid. We all know that terror is funded by way more than just oil and drugs. Speaking of drugs, I really don't see whats so wrong with people toking on a joint every once in a while. You want to get more taxes from people that would be happy to pay them, legalize Mary jane. It'll cut the prices in half, create revenue, create jobs and its not as bad for you as standard smoking or alcohol. Plus, everyone would be happy. That would rock.

All IMHO, I'm not trying to stir a hornets nest, just wanted to put my 2 cents in.


Frank :smile:

 

God Bless you Frank. I can assume that you aren't in K-Town anymore :smile:
Let us back here know if there's anything that we can do for you (especially taking your MINI, and blowing the soot out of it now and then!).

 

>>God Bless you Frank. I can assume that you aren't in K-Town anymore :smile:
>>Let us back here know if there's anything that we can do for you (especially taking your MINI, and blowing the soot out of it now and then!).
>>
>>

You just brought a smile to a usualy strait face. Thanks a million. When I get back I'd love to blow the soot out of it alongside a few other Mini's down A-6.

Frank :smile:

 

>>Well, I am a left wing socialist! =) Could you tell me what the pending war in Iraq is really about then? And if you think that we are going to war because of the threat of weapons of mass destruction, realize that if such a weapon were to detonate on US soil, the American People would be so pissed off, that whichever country of terrorist group was responsible would be flattened permenantly. Realize that the United States carries the biggest stick. We have the greatest military in the world, Saddam Hussien is no dummy, his concern is solely the Middle East.
>>

These are the point of views of people who rely on the ABC networks for news. There's dozens of books that tell of the suffering in Iraq. The general population could have the freedom to buld a republic such as Turkey. And with all the propaganda we dropped out there, Saddam's generals should turn on him instantly. I have connections at Lockheed and you would not believe the weapons we have.
Oil may be a part, and the liberals that say Bush needs to focus on the economy seem to forget oil is a big part of the economy. And when we try to drill here they scream!
High Anx you have the main point! The war is to free the true Palestinians from Arafat and the murder bombers fueled by Iraq's network.. If Israel continues to recieve the killings we'll have more problems than you would imagine.
Yes, Bush does need to sell the war better. they should release more senisitive information to the liberal news like Regan did when the Soviets were loading Granada years ago.

Remember the liberals said the gulf war was going to trigger WWIII and the end of the world? they just jump on what ever the opposition is. Even if it is the opposite of what they were saying the week prior.

I suggest before you start protesting something you don't understand to think of our soldiers over there that need our support. If you want to protest something why don't you start with the fact that our boarders remain unprotected or that your liberal leaders want you to remain dumbed down.

Could electrc109 be Jane Fonda?

This war should have been over by now.

Go to http://www.newsmax.com to see the facts!

 

Nicely stated Zappa. The Jane Fondas of the world are rearing their heads. I wonder what people like Sen John McCain would think about this discussion.

Frank :smile:

 

>>Well, I am a left wing socialist! =) Could you tell me what the pending war in Iraq is really about then? And if you think that we are going to war because of the threat of weapons of mass destruction, realize that if such a weapon were to detonate on US soil, the American People would be so pissed off, that whichever country of terrorist group was responsible would be flattened permenantly. Realize that the United States carries the biggest stick. We have the greatest military in the world, Saddam Hussien is no dummy, his concern is solely the Middle East.

Thank you for your option of what WE in the biz might do.

If we did flatten a country, it would not be with nuclear or biological weapons. It will be a conventional exchange.

We being the holder of the Big Stick as you say, have the tolerance not to use it. They on the other hand have declared to use any and everything against US.

I hope you notice I'm not naming names and using very generic terms. The world is a big place and many things happen that may affect us.

With our use of nukes, Pakistan and India will start lobbing theirs, then Korea, then Israel, then Russia, then… You get the point.

It's not one country or even some countries that are a threat to the free world, but the philosophy of our countries that so many despots and radical thinkers of the world want to destroy. We as a nation are free thinkers and that THEY hate.


_________________

02 MCS ~ Sport, Aero, Rally Lights

 

we are all spoiled BRATS. have nothing better to do but complain or cry about things. people from other countries are suffering. we got it good!!! shut the hell up and take your mini for a spin.

 

Ah, the "Detroit Project" - was waiting to see something start on this board and I knew a bunch of people would jump on it.

My thoughts - look at who the primary instigtors are here:

Do as I say, not as I do.

I think you can see where I'm going here... There will always be people whose main passion in life is telling others how to live.

I'm not giving up my Ferrari or my MINI because they run on gas.

I can only understand SUVs in a couple cases:

But, there are very few SUVs I see on the road that meet these conditions and as a result I'm just really perplexed why anyone would need/want something that a lot of people have problems fitting into their garage!

Anyway, to each his own and if someone wants to give ford/chevy/anyone making SUVs (even Porsche now?!?! that's rediculous) a HUGE profit margin for a vehicle that doesn't have to meet the same safety standards as passenger vehicles it's their perogative.

Personally, I'd love to see gas cost $5/gal and get a lot of the bad mileage cars off the road and potentially actually provide some incentive to improve the (for the most part) horrid public transportation that exists in most parts of the US. It would ease congestion in and around major cities I'd bet... but I'm no transportation engineer and this is all off the hip.

-dq

 

>>anyone here worried about that hole in the ozone layer? 'cause really at the end it's all that really matters unless someone starts using nukes.so, how about lets all stop driving and give the bicycling industry a boost.

That's why i said what i said about JPL. They contribute far more than anyone driving a car to that "hole"! We taxpayers fund the projects and then ask how the money is spent, and are refused answers on the basis of proprietary ownership. It's all hogwash.

 

I just had to tell everyone what happened yesterday...it cracked me up! We (15 or so MINIs) were driving down I-Drive in Orlando, when we came to a stop light. The lady in the Excursion next to us motioned for us to put the window down. She goes "How many miles to the gallon do you get?" We told her, and her face just turned into sadness. I thought she was going to cry. She finally said "I only get 9."

 

>>I just had to tell everyone what happened yesterday...it cracked me up! We (15 or so MINIs) were driving down I-Drive in Orlando, when we came to a stop light. The lady in the Excursion next to us motioned for us to put the window down. She goes "How many miles to the gallon do you get?" We told her, and her face just turned into sadness. I thought she was going to cry. She finally said "I only get 9."


Has she been in some kind of Twilight Zone state since the 70's?!

 

A commie liberal gets elected in Venezuela and screws up the oil supply. I guess we had better get our own oil from Alaska. Oh, I forgot, the libs don't want us to do that. They want us to be beholding to Sad-and-Insane!!!
Motor on.....in whatever you can afford. Ron.



Adrianna Huff-in-town ..my rear e-d.

_________________

LTL YELO

 

>>>>I just had to tell everyone what happened yesterday...it cracked me up! We (15 or so MINIs) were driving down I-Drive in Orlando, when we came to a stop light. The lady in the Excursion next to us motioned for us to put the window down. She goes "How many miles to the gallon do you get?" We told her, and her face just turned into sadness. I thought she was going to cry. She finally said "I only get 9."
>>
>>
>> Has she been in some kind of Twilight Zone state since the 70's?!

Easy to laugh at this poor lady, but Holly's Excursion story illustrates the basic point (and it's appropriate, since she started this thread!). Before we used this thread as a launching point for expressing various political points of view, the root issue was one of whether or not SUV drivers actually THOUGHT about the consequences of their driving choice.

Here is an example of someone who probably bought (or had bought for them) a vehicle without ever thinking about what they really needed and the ramifications of that vehicle choice. Who would WANT to get 9 miles a gallon if they had a choice? If you needed an SUV, then maybe 9mpg could be rationalized next to the benefit attained from driving a six ton truck with leather seats and woodgrain trim. But at least you'd have thought about it and made a decision.

The crime here, and the one that the increasing publicity of anti-SUV campaigns can address is that people simply don't think before acting. By showing SUV drivers that there are reasonable alternatives -- ranging from MINIs to safer, more efficient, car-based SUVs (e.g., the new Volvo) -- we may be doing everyone a favor. Sure, this has political ramifications, but first it's just good common sense.

 

>>She finally said "I only get 9."

I'm surprised she even knew.

 

>>Easy to laugh at this poor lady, but Holly's Excursion story illustrates the basic point (and it's appropriate, since she started this thread!). Before we used this thread as a launching point for expressing various political points of view, the root issue was one of whether or not SUV drivers actually THOUGHT about the consequences of their driving choice.
>>
>>Here is an example of someone who probably bought (or had bought for them) a vehicle without ever thinking about what they really needed and the ramifications of that vehicle choice. Who would WANT to get 9 miles a gallon if they had a choice? If you needed an SUV, then maybe 9mpg could be rationalized next to the benefit attained from driving a six ton truck with leather seats and woodgrain trim. But at least you'd have thought about it and made a decision.
>>
>>The crime here, and the one that the increasing publicity of anti-SUV campaigns can address is that people simply don't think before acting. By showing SUV drivers that there are reasonable alternatives -- ranging from MINIs to safer, more efficient, car-based SUVs (e.g., the new Volvo) -- we may be doing everyone a favor. Sure, this has political ramifications, but first it's just good common sense.


Thank you - Exactly my point.

Has anyone seen the development for a Hydrogen powered MINI?
http://www.bmwworld.com/models/mini/hydrogen.htm
I actually am continuously considering trading in my MINI for an EV or other AFV (alternative fueled vehicle). After that nasty oil spill off the coast of Spain, and our increasing involvement with the Middle East, I am really close to doing so. Unfortunately my life is not suitable for an EV, and I cannot afford anything more expensive than my MINI. I get 29 mpg (not 9), and can't stand the fact that I use gasoline in the first place. My first car I converted to electric power when I was 15. I had planned on going to engineering school to become an Automotive Engineer. Too bad its bloody cold in Michigan and there aren't any major car manufacturers in in the tropics.

 

Oh, come on. Even the Republicans are open about the fact that opening up the ANWR won't alleviate our dependency upon foreign oil. This is explicit in the White House energy plan, as written by Cheney in 2001. It also outlines the need for securing foreign oil supplies, and also states that we cannot rely upon diplomacy with regards to foreign oil. Hmm... that's sure played out, hasn't it?

I'm opposed to opening up the ANWR, not because I feel all warm and fuzzy about Elk. I'm opposed to it because there is ample evidence that it will not significantly impact our current situation one whit. What it will do is make a lot of people rich, and while that's capitalism at it's finest, we should protect our resources from exploitation, which is purely and simply what this is. It's on par with discovering gold in the Grand Canyon, and allowing two or three companies run by friends of the President open up mines, or allowing the logging of old growth in Yellowstone. I've noticed that they're logging old growth again in Northern California. The last time I drove through, they were back to the good old days of one log per truck. Aaahh, it's nice to sell out the future for a profit today. Good stuff.

Halliburton is still slopping up Federal dollars, and the entire things stinks of collusion. Sheesh, just do a search on Halliburton KBR, or Brown and Root, or Kellogg Brown and Root (or whatever else it might be called... hard to follow sometimes). They get what looks like a neverending contract to provide food and shelter to our troops, along with a trough full of other military contracts. These contracts used to be competitive. Hmmm... nothing fishy going on there, of course.

I believe that there are good people on both sides of the partisan fence in Washington, and I believe that if our constitution survives our current president, things will be made right. God, I hope so. This man, though, has taken us down a path toward fascism that's downright scary. He fosters an atmosphere of fear and distrust, wherein he can work to strip us of "non-essential" civil rights. Shoot, look up fascism. I'm continuously amazed at the parallels. This was a man that ran on a platform of moderation and centrism.

What really makes me despair, though, is that so many people KNOW that he's screwing things up, but are too afraid to admit it to themselves, because the alternative is truly frightening. Nowadays, if you don't fall in line with whatever Bush says or does, you're somehow, in some way, supporting Terrorism. And now, even the Left wing has gotten into it. The whole thing is wacko, and it has nothing to do with whether you are left or right.

_________________
<a href="http://logan.5.home.attbi.com/mini/m...ot;><img src="http://logan.5.home.attbi.com/mini/g...08tb.jpg" width="110" height="85" border="0"></a>