Amen to that!

We love our '02 CVT. 28K troublefree miles and many memorable trips in it. We will keep it for at least another couple of years.

I have the ZF technical reference manual for the VT-1 CVT transmission in the MINI. An absolute incredible read on this jewel of transmission.

I will see if I still have the PDF and maybe shoot it up your way.:smile:

 

Yeah, I love my CVT MC too. So much so that I think I'll keep it forever. I use it as my commuter car, but after I retire in 10 years, I'll keep it as a fun car with many mods by then. I think I've seen the manual posted somewhere that you mentioned (probably by you awhile back), but thanks. :smile:

However, I do agree that the MCS auto should be a really good car. :smile:

 

Yah, the car i went against was just the 03....i didnt take into consideration the change of the 05 gearing on the new mcs

And yes, my car is pretty modded including lots of weight removed and engine tuning done, so it wasnt exactly "fair". But i still love my CVT....what a fun gizmo

 

What mods you have done to it (aside from the weight reduction?) It seems to me the CVT is one of the most difficult cars to mod and get significant gains.

 

As a daily driver, commuter, around-town car Coopers are plenty quick. Personally, having driven several MCSs including an '05, I'd consider the extra oomph of an S as unnecessary. I mean that, but I did say personally. On a real street with real other cars and real school zones and real cops, yeah, Coopers are more than fast enough.

Many (most) owners test-drive a Cooper and then an MCS and then say..."oh I want the more powerful one." More is better??? Not necessarily...there are other factors to consider, imo. I love Coopers. They like to be driven...and clicking through the gears to really get the most out of it = fun.

This is my opinion and probably a minority one here....but since we are talking VS, it's my 2 cents. Most (but not all) of my buddies drive an MCS. If you want fast and faster, I personally would start there. But if you have a practical bone in your body (which you may not ) take a serious look at Coopers. Once you learn to drive it, your motoring experience will be just as much fun.

 

I second that---uhm, the only other one in the minority.

On my way back from Vegas yesterday, my caravan consisted of 4 MC's and 1 MCS. I couldn't believe it, that I was in a Cooper majority--everywhere I drive these days is almost always the reverse--atleast in LA where MCS's seem to be the norm. I'd say if you're in a major metropolitan area and you want to be more unique, an MC is the way to go.

Power and speed between the two models had much less to do with the capabilities than it did on who was driving them and how fast that driver was willing to go.

You can drive an MC in a casual fuel economic way, or you can drive it "fast and furious". I average 24mpg while other MC owners do 32 to 34mpg, and it's no wonder. I've got a lead foot and I'm happy that way.

 

I started out looking for an MC and would have been perfectly happy with the MC. The car is an ideal car for most purposes and is very frugal with the fuel mileage. My hindsight says I should have stuck to my guns and bought the MC. However, I bought an MCS instead. I live in a area where my commute to work involves highways and hills. On the highway, merging on, you need flog the engine a bit more. If you do a lot of highway driving, passing and hill climbing requires you to keep your car at a higher RPM range. In this case, you might decide on the MCS. The ride on the MC is more comfortable as I felt the MCS suspension to be a bit harsh initially. After break-in, either it softens up a bit or I've gotten used to the sport suspension. The MC is plenty fun to drive.

For the extra money, you get a stiffer suspension and bigger wheels, 6 speeds instead of 5 (if you buy manual) and of course, the more powerful engine, sport seats.

If you want a good car to drive, buy the MC. If your normal driving involves sport driving or lots of highways and hills, then maybe consider the MCS. Test drive both and decide what your needs are.

 

Cooper4us -- I think RallyMINI has a cold air intake and cat back exhaust, but what really helps (I think) is his MTH ECU chip (downloaded from the guy over in Germany who programs it for people who want it if they have the computer cable), which is programmed specifically for the CVT. Don't know what other engine stuff he has if anything else. Plus, I heard him post that he wanted to or had done some weight reduction, i.e., I think he was going to remove his back seat, and I don't know what else he has done for weight. He also wants 15 inch wheels (as I think he has 17s last I heard), but don't know if he did that yet or not.

You're right that the MC takes some doing to mod it, but the CVT is not supposed to be able to take much extra power, as you probably know. As you know, BMW's ECU chip is not that good for the CVT, so I've heard the MTH chip really helps by eliminating the hesitation on takeoff, etc. Thus, I would think the MTH chip doesn't necessarily add hp and torque so much as it removes that hesitation, although I think it may add some hp and torque too.

It's well known that the bottleneck on the MINI engine (both MC and MCS) is the head. So, that porting and polishing the head to provide a freer flow opens up everything else so that whatever else you do will give you some gains, i.e., header and exhaust and intake will suddenly give you a gain, where if you did not do the head, the gain for these would be minimal. While you've opened up the engine, you may as well add a cam which adds power too. Another improvement is a freer flowing intake manifold. I think with these gains an MC should get up to 150 hp (brake hp not at the wheels), which is an improvement of 35 hp, but this is just my guess. That with ultra light weight wheels and tires should be able to keep up with a stock S I would think, or beat it.

You can even add an improved flowing throttle body, but that only adds power on the top end while robbing low end power (i.e., shifts the power curve up), so anyone doing that should know that first. There are other things too, but I don't think they add much, i.e., spark plug wires, and ignition coil, but can smooth out the engine rpm's.

 

I have a 100 mile daily commute,80 miles of highway,now were talking bald a$$ prairie here,not L.A. freeways.No one can keep up with me on off ramps.
I can come off the ramps and merge with no problems.Passing on the highway is never a problem.The speed limit is 60MPH,I tend to cruise at 70MPH,as do most,so the Mounties don't bother with ya.I can pass most folks staying in 5th,remember this is prairie,so you can see till tommorow,but if need be 4th gear launches you pretty good,and if you do need to slow before passing ,3rd is always there,very tall gear,and can get you to 75MPH,NOW
Then you shift up to 5th and cruise,still getting 35MPG
I have motored in MCS's,fun,lots more goBut I just don't need it,but if you do,or just want it,go for it.
But an MC will probably serve you well

 

My 05 MC handles great and constantly puts a smile on my face. The revised gearing makes it feel very good; probably high 7 second 0 to 60 mph time. However, I now deeply regret not getting the MCS. This will be my next car; soon!

 

Great passion, all!

I have a non-turbo 2001 PT Cruiser and I know about doing mods to the car. I mostly cruise around town, to/from work, not too much highway unless it's a trip. I really love seeing the Mini around town (not too many here in Buffalo though) and test drove one when they first came out so I have experienced "The Grin".

Once I'm done paying for the PT, I will probably get the itch and get a Mini, especially with talk that gas will be about $3/gal this summer!

Thanks all for your comments! I love these enthusiasts' sites!

 

I drove both, and I really liked them a lot. I have opted for the MCS, though, mostly because of the midrange power. I feel a little more confident on the crowded SF Bay Area freeways with the extra grunt.

I went to Ball State U. in Municie, IN. That is Cooper Country. You just don't need a lot of extra speed there.

Anyhoo, my Black MCS will look a lot like this snappy Cooper:

 

Hey Johnny,post smaller picsLove your MINI

 

Wish I had asked you prior to ordering my MINI. Having not driven either MC or MCS I opted for the MCS (okay, I admit it's the MCSa) despite my preference for the MC's appearance and fuel economy. Thanks for the thoughtful and balanced post.

Yikes! The message became wider than my screen.

 

Hey lot15,

We REALLY do drive alike. LOL
I say just keep your revs above 3,000 all the time, and it will never feel sluggish--even around town, but try to drive in 2nd at 1,500 rpm, it'll feel boggy! Is that even a word?

Richard

 

That reminds me of the old saw about the classic Beetle being the fastest car on the planet from 0-2.

If you want the most bang for the buck, get the MCS but skip the so-called sport package -- or at least the wheels from that package -- there's nothing sporty about them! You can get the rest of the sport package a la carte if you want.

Have fun!

 

Yeah, well on Gran Turismo 4 the Cooper with a turbo is more powerful and faster than any mods you can do to the S (on the game, at least)! So, there !

 

Before we ordered our MC, we thought seriously about the MCS, and then realized that we just didn't need the extra power. We don't go to the track, we don't have much of an interest in high-speed gallavanting, and we already have a car that satisfies our need for quickness (04 Mitsu Lancer Ralliart). The original post is right about 4k being a boatload of options on the MC, and that's what wound up deciding for us. Either way, though, it's a great car....

 

What! I have not tried that. Cooper in GT4 get a turbo upgrade and Cooper S got NA tune.

911fan is right. I'm not try to compare anything, but 35mph is just really a flash. Most of the cars take about 2 seconds or less depend on how good you are with the clutch.

You may win an EVO or an STI or any turbo cars with 35mph dash with a MINI Cooper but soon after their turbo kick in........

 

Drive both and see if the additional power is worth the money to you. The S does have some other standard features you'll pay extra for a Cooper.

 

I have a borla exhaust, pipercross air intake and MTH tuning. The MTH helped the CVT the most....it adds a ton of torque(something the cooper lacks), and most of all it actual changes the behavior of the CVT to rev much faster up to the oppertune rpm before really accelerating. It completely changed the CVT to a whole new car.

 

Another perhaps minor difference between the MC and MCS are their looks. Both are beautiful cars, in my opinion, but they do have subtle differences that might be important to some: The MC has a more classic look (which I actually prefer) and the MCS has a more aggressive look due for the most part to their bonnets.

 

Let me Clarify. The high point of the MCS is the ability to Mod further and more effectively than the MC, you can't compare your modded MC to a Non modded S, it's just not fair. My S will do 0-60 in the 6 flat region and I imagine ANY regular MC would be hard pressed to do that. The standard S mods are very affordable; pully, chip, exaust, and intake bump a MCS up to 200-220hp in a flash for under 2 grand (and you can even cut the exaust and save $800 and still run about 200hp). All I'm saying is that you and I have probably spent similar money on upgrades and I can take my friend in his stock WRX off the line as well as through the S-bends. 3K is a very fair price for a supercharger/intercooler and I think that the value of the upgrades (especially when comparing to what cars preform similarly), is much higher. I do think the MC is still one amazing pocket rocket, I would even buy one as a second car. It's the best under 20k$ car on the market hands down, if i had one i wouldn't want to mod it because i would feel as if the money could be better spent, and i know i would spend all my money moding it anyway. I just need that extra torque and HP (helps me justify all the money i put into the car ), Next up on the Mod list is a short shifter and brake kit, should be on within the next 2 months.
Peace,
James

P.S. I think i sound a little too heated but i promise i'm not, I'd never hold a grudge against another Cooper owner, just getting into i guess. also I love the way your MINI looks. Is that a black painted Grille and what kind of rims do you have?

 

Is the insurance more for the MCS than the Cooper? I had the impression from GEICO that they were the same. (At least for an old fart like me.)

I gather the mpg is much better on the Cooper. I must say, I was a little dismayed to discover how relatively "low" my MCS's mileage is. (About 23.5 mpg long term.) Then again, I didn't buy the car for mileage, but for "smileage." And I'll bet I get more grins per mile than just about any other car owner!

I never test drove a Cooper. Fifteen minutes behind the wheel of an MCS, and I just had to have one.

But I hear the Cooper is no slouch, either. Definitely not a "poor cousin." (That would be the MINI One, which is available only in Europe.) I think the only answer would be to test drive both and decide for yourself.

 

Gee,thanksNice to know we are family