Sorry for the title, but some people just don't "get it" and need it s-p-e-l-l-e-d out for them.

OK, lets try this again since the last thread on the "1st auto S on our shores" has gotten cluttered by people who didn't understand what that one was about.

This couldn't be any more simple. If you want to argue about any aspects surrounding the auto S please leave it to some other thread. Lets keep this one reserved for only those who have something to contribute in terms of their experiences with driving the new auto S or links to other sites where other people have driven it.

By the way, thanks MrV for the recent reviews you have found and shared with us on this subject. Keep up the good work!

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

 

clutch-head, clutch-head

na na na

 

mcsc, aside from that first response, let's hope that NAMsters honor your request and simply report their experience of the new MCSa! I am very interested in reading about actual motoring in these new MINIs!


Clover

 

So how does it drive? How smooth are the shifts? How quick are the shifts? What is it like when driven in a sporty mode?

 

The most complete review yet was posted on this link provided by MrV--

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthre...798#post1354798

 

The Ferrari 360 & 430 are quicker with the paddle shift (slush box to you clutch heads) than with the manual, and the Enzo doesn't come with a manual.IF the MINI is as quick with the auto as with the manual it would be great. A lot of people would welcome the auto in stop and go city driving as long as the performance was still there. Personnaly, I enjoy heel & toeing on downshifts, but if MINSQL was auto, my wife and kids would drive him more(I dont know if that would be a good thing, I d be giving up valuable seat time, but we would be able to share the joy...)

 

the link looks shorted out - i think it refers to the following review from a poster on mini2.

- drew

-----------

MCS automatic test drive
Today I went my dealship to test drive the MCS 6-speed and automatic back-to-back. I have a 5-speed MC that I'm thinking of trading in. I was somewhat dubious about what the steptronic would be like, having driven a VW passat equipped with a fairly bad example.

I drove the manual first. I know it's been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere, but in all the ways that matter (gearbox, throttle response, power, handling, sound, even driving position), it was like driving a different completely car. Whether different means better is up to individual tastes.

We then moved on to the automatic. There was a bit of initial confusion about how to get car into "S manual mode", so once I got it I left it there. In this mode gears are held until you change them with the stick or paddles. I didn't try shifting with the stick, or drive the car in automatic mode, so I can't say what these are like. The car sounded just as good as the manual at idle.

Once one the road, I found that shifts using the paddles happened far more quickly than shifts using the manual transmission. Because they happen so instantaeously, they synchronize perfectly with the "click" of the paddles, giving the whole action a nice mechanical feeling - I haven't driven an SMG, but it "felt" similar to discriptions I've read.
I found the paddles very intuitive and easy to use - I was surprised, because my intial thought before driving the car was that they should have made one paddle for shifting up and the other for down. But it felt spot on - and the fact that paddles curve down behind the steering wheel spokes was an especially nice touch.
Also, there was almost none of the spongeyness of feel or rubber banding that there is in many torque converter transmissions. I thought they did an amazing job dialing that out.
Nor did the system seem overly nannying - I accidently double clicked the paddle and sent the engine howling against the rev limiter (fortunately my MA was completely non-plussed!) and it held the gear until I shifted up.
The test course held one sharp second gear corner - I took this at speed in the wet (encouraged by the MA). I didn't find any noticeable difference between the auto and the manual, either in terms of performance or weight/handling. Personally I found executing shifts in full and half lock tricky because one's hands don't always end up where the paddles are - but this is obviously just a practice issue. On the straights I found they worked really well.

I found the throttle a slight bit more responsive on the manual, but I suspect this was probably due to the fact that the auto only had 30 miles on the odometer to the manual's 400. I'm sure after being broken in, and once the computer adjusts to your driving style, this wouldn't be an issue. Both were in a totally different league to my MC.

One oddity I found was that when I came to traffic lights having used 2nd gear initially to engine brake but then having used the brake pedal to come to a full stop without bothering any further with the paddles, the car would pull out from stationary in second gear (according to the digital readout). I had expected it to automatically go into first. I only noticed this at the end and didn't have a chance to confirm it. The ratios certainly felt very different from the manual, maybe just a touch more "vague".

In general, the car felt every bit as sporting (at least in the mode I drove it in) as its manual counterpart. I can't imagine it would feel any better if it was a true SMG than it does now - I also can't imagine that anyone who ordered one will be anything less than totally thrilled and surprised by it. A lot of thought and effort has obviously gone into it - in no way did it strike me as a slap on job.

In fact, my only real criticism would be that maybe too much thought went into it - I found it somewhat excessively complicated to have so many driving modes and shifting methods to choose from. This is obviously purely personal, but to me it can make things seem gimmicky, like they're trying to cover every concievable base they can - I understand offering so many modes in the CVT, but if the MCS is the sports version, then why not offer it with only the manual and automatic sport mode. It is also competeing with one of the best features of the manual, ie the gearbox. I thought the six speed manual gearbox was fantastic, with a wonderful short, accurate throw, and very easy to use - in a different league from my cranky midlands unit.

All in all I thought the automatic version was a truly terrific car, and one that would really reward the thoughtful driver who takes the time to master it.

And just got to add: l really love that supercharger whine!

 

Thanks, drew, for saving me the trouble of tracking the busted link down.

My brother has an Audi 3.2 TT with paddles and it's a terrific car. I enjoy working a clutch, so that's what's on my MCS. But I'm very interested in the new tranny being offered on the MINIs and am looking forward to any reviews!

Some comments:

I think that's one of the main advantages of these things - lightning fast shifts. My brother's TT feels the same - instantaneous shifts, at the same moment you click the paddle.

I think a lot of the people who are "against" these things don't understand what they are. It isn't anything like a Detroit automatic transmission where you're using "1-2-3" instead of "D." It's a whole other beast. Not a "slush box" at all.

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall my brother's TT has one paddle for up and one paddle for down. (See further comments on complexity below.)

A few comments here. First of all, you probably shouldn't be shifting in the middle of a turn. And if you were using your hands the way the BMW club's drivers' schools teach, your hands are still in the right place, even if you are turning. And if your hands aren't in the right place, I guess that's a reason for getting used to shifting with the stick.

BTW, I'm a little disappointed that the reviewer didn't try using the stick mode. I assume it's like the Audi? Push for an upshift, pull for a downshift? (Or is it the other way 'round? I don't remember.)

I think this is a problem that's getting seriously out of hand at BMW. A friend of a friend bought a new 7 series, and apparently, he has to get into the car and show a valet parking attendant how to start the car. Otherwise, he has to go back into the lot to retrieve his car 'cause no one can get the car started. That's too freakin' complicated!

My wiper stalk is a little bit that way. I have to stop and think for a moment when I want to wipe off the rear window.

One thing my brother's TT has (that I haven't heard anything about in the MINI) is a "launch mode." I don't remember the exact steps involved, but it's something like switch off the traction control, foot on the brake, rev the engine to 3500, put the car into drive, and when you release the brake, the tranny engages and does all the shifting for you, with shift points optimized for maximum acceleration.

I know this takes all (or at least, "a lot of") the fun out of it - remember, I chose a manual tranny - but a computer is going to be better at shifting than just about anyone. And more consistent.

I didn't buy my car for drag racing - I bought it for fun. And I enjoy shifting and working the clutch. But I'll bet this auto-MCS is one hell of car!

Thanks to nycmini - and the original reviewer!

 

Aw, C'mon... just having a little fun/light-hearted jab.

 

The Audi 3.2 TT with DSG is a different system than the MCS steptronic. DSG is more akin to SMG since it doesn't have a torque converter but still has multiple plates like an an auto. Think of it as a more advance CVT system. READ MORE ABOUT DSG


Correct, it's like most systems out there, Sequential and Auto (think Benz) they have distinct sides to upshift and downshift. Having had a sequential car before I have to say I wasn't thrown at all by playing with the display MCS auto at the L.A. autoshow. It felt intuitive having both sides being able to up/downshift.... heck, Schumi has that ability in F1 and now we do. :D


I follow that rule as well, the only time you might need to shift if properly driving on the track is a long sweeper where you might need to upshift. The one advantage is that having both sides up/downshift allows you to still shift, if you need to for whatever reason, with the arm that doesn't have to break from the wheel during a tight turn.

Typically BMW has it setup for forward/downshift, backward/upshift. Similiar to an airplane for diving/climbing. Suiting since BMW started out as an airplane engine manufacturer. :D Earlier '00-01 E46 3-series w/Steptronics however had it flopped.

As mentioned the DSG system is more akin to a sequential than auto which is probably why the MCSa doesn't have a luanch mode. My old M3 w/SMG had launch mode but once engaged and on it's way, you had to do all the shifting past the 1st gear launch. It only maximizes the optimized launch RPM and clutch disengagement for optimized grip during launch without over spinning your tires, this is while traction control is off so you can use the fastest shift mode (S6). I'm unfamiliar with the DSG system so I can't say if that system autoshifts for you past launch, I know the BMW SMG system doesn't. It's really just a gimmick unless you live at the strip.

Actually for me it didn't. Having taken my SMG M3 out on the track I had just as much fun driving the car had high speeds as I did manual cars on the track. Different aspects of driving were greatly enhanced (namely the dynamics of the car) since the mundane task of revmatching shifts was taken care of. Not saying one is better than the other but certainly different aspects of driving at high speeds were accentuated and said tranny didn't deter from the experience.

Unfortunately I still have a few more weeks until our MCSa replacement comes in until I can drive one firsthand but I'm encouraged by reading all the other reviews, keep them coming!

 

Imo 'slush box' to me is the torque converter contributing to it the
most, not so much the gearbox. I just don't like the feeling of the
torque converter cause it makes the car feel like its on a one-way
ball bearing when you let off the throttle. This is why I was
dissappointed to hear that BMW did not offer the seq-MT on the
MCSa.

 

My neighbors have Ferarries. One has the F1 paddle option and one doesn't. The one that didn't, needed a hip replacement and his 325 i commuter is now an M3 SMG. Not because he's a racing wuss, but because he couldn't use a clutch for a while (and think, he didn't even ask me to make sure his Ferarri was still running well!). The guy with the F1 shift option thinks its worth a couple of seconds in the Virginai City Hill Climb!

And while we all rag on torque converters, they do MULTIPLY TORQUE, so they aren't all bad.

It's fun to watch this debate. It reminds me of Carbs vs Fuel Injection. The carb crowds were the traditionalists, but FI won out in the end.....

Matt

 

How relevant is this when (quoted from MotoringFile):
... the hydraulic torque converter enables the driver to accelerate dynamically with maximum power, while keeping the whole process soft and smooth. And with the converter lock-up clutch closing at just 1,800 rpm, the new top model in the MINI range is particularly responsive to the gas paddle ...

 

my pleasure - this was the first real in depth review i have stumbled upon.

i can't wait for my car to arrive. living in nyc this is going to offer me the mix of performance and convenience i am looking for.... prouduction is scheduled to finish up next friday - so hopefully only a few more weeks!

cheers - drew

 

BMWs SMG system DOES Upshift for you while in Launch Control or Acceleration Assist for their toned down SMG systems (non-M) If done properly all you do is hold the gas pedel to the firewall and hang on. If it didnt upshift for you, you did not set Launch Control up correctly.

 

Well guys, pretty soon I'll be able to write my own review. The RESOLVE set sail this afternoon with my MCSA loaded onboard. Next stop is Charleston (via NY and Baltimore that is) due to arrive on the 17th. Then truck to DFW and into my anxious hands.

Good information in this thread by the way. Nice to hear some useful information come out about this transmission. So far the reviews from real world drivers have been good. No real negatives so far.

Now what we need is a PDF of the new post January '05 manual, so that I can read up on all the changes from the last manual (which I have already read front to back).

 

Ah, I didn't know they had an "auto" LC mode when they finally release it for the non-M cars. As stated in my post, my experience was with BMW's SMGII transmission for the (E46) M3, when I owned one in 02-03.

 

Actually these cars don't come with slush boxes. These cars come with a manual gearbox with computer attached to it to regulate gear shifts"upshifts/downshifts", Speed of the gear shift, work the clutch so you don't have to, Launch controls, and to protect against overrevving. Slush boxes are automatics with P R N D 4 3 2 1. So you know I just wanted to inform not offend. Back on the subject I've been told they drive pretty nice.

Danny

 

Ahh one of the benefits of living in the Blue states is that the discharge port is fairly close by. I dropped by my dealer today, as we had 60 degree weather, wonderful sunshine, it was like spring, not like the snow that fell on Wednesday night. Anyhoo, no MCSas in stock yet, ergo no test drive for yours truly, however since the weatherguessers had been predicting a nice weekend (and seem to have stumbled upon one) all the MCC and MCSC wanna-bees were lined up three deep for test drives. Note to self: phone ahead three or more days if you want to experience some top down testing in the MCSC. Still it was awfully nice to see so many MINIS crusing around.

 

MotoringFile just put up a review of a test drive.

http://www.motoringfile.com/

 

I have driven sticks for 40 years,at first tractors in fields,love'em,but this new MCSA sounds like a hoot to drive.I'm sure it will prove to be a great motoring experienceAnd clutch heads like me can always get a stick
Buy what you want,have fun with it,and don't rag on those that see,want,need things different than you

 

Another thanks to Drew for retyping the article from MINI2. And thanks to LombardStreet for info on the Audi TTa (a car I considered instead of the MINI).

My MCSa is months and months and months and months away. I look forward to reading posts by NAM aficionados who get theirs soon. After reading these insightful posts I wonder:

Someday, will these automatics become so complicated that the manual transmission will seem the easy-to-drive alternative?

Happy motoring.

 

Im talking about off throttle. :smile: does the lockup maintain until 1800rpm?

 

Graham, an MA that is on another forum (metroplexmini.com ... for Dallas/Ft. Worth) bought an MCSa for his daughter. He has been giving us little reviews here and there for the last week. This is what he just posted:

I drove the car for about 20 miles around our local twisties. Awesome! I could make this car do what my manual car does. Now, I was limiting myself to around 4000 rpms and only 75% throttle but the car was amazing. Up and down through the gearbox, rev-matching, and then I noticed the exhaust burble that the '05s have. I didn't notice that driving around town but shifting down to apex these curves out here it is wonderful.

Some observations:

In strictly auto mode, with a light pedal touch, the car hangs on to gears under load going uphill rather than shifting down. You can override that though either by kicking the gas into downshift or by using the paddles.

In sport drive, the car will downshift as you slow the car providing engine braking (unlike domestic auto trannies). For some reason it stays in 2nd for the next start away from a light. I got used to making sure it was in 1st!. I suspect that it does 2nd gear starts sometimes in auto mode but the display doesn't show the gear selection in auto, only in sport drive.

Shifts are lightening fast in either direction and you get a very small window of opportunity on downshifts to blip the throttle for rev-matching.

The car is very comparable to a manual car in performance (bearing in mind the break-in miles limits). There's loads of performance that I know is there but can't tap into yet.

Anyway, a typical drive in the break-in miles would be from standstill in sport drive, squeeze the gas to 75% and hold it there. At 4000 rpms squeeze your fingers once and shift to 2nd, repeat the 4000 rpm shift until in 6th. That would put you around 90MPH.

To slow down for a curve, press either thumb and blip the throttle. Repeat as necessary all the while listening for that glorious '05 burble. Repeat all this stuff as necessary to beat the twisties into submission!

I really like sport drive, with this kind of power and technology, you feel like a Ferrari F1 driver. Strictly auto mode is ho hum.

More about this after the break-in miles. Remember, this is not my car, I just paid for it!!

 

Thanks again MrV!