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Things to do to 'NEW' engine when swapping '06 MCS engine??
Hoping that some of you can take a few minutes to help me out.
I'm working on a couple of R53 projects....
One of them, Is to replace a tired, but functional engine... and I'm finding some low-ish mile take out engines (with documentation on the mileage).
For this car... I want to do a swap out of the engine... with a good used one.
I'd like to tend to the known issues of the W11-R53 engine before it goes back in.
The engine that I will probably buy is a 2006 MCS W11 with 57,500 miles on it.... It has been taken down to the long block.... no supercharger/alternator etc.
I'm thinking at this "mid mile mark" to freshen it up... but still retain the stock pistons if everything measures out ok for taper and concentricity of bore &pistons.
What are the things to tend to...and what parts are best in terms of quality ... keeping in mind this will NOT be a tracked car.
Things I can think of doing.
Replace timing chain/sprockets and guides. (which brand or OEM?)
New pan gasket (which brand)
New valve cover gasket.
Front and rear Main Seals.
New timing cover seals and Oil-pump in/out seals.
Camshaft and crankshaft sensor seals.
Should I pop in new standard main and rod bearings?
Should I do a quick clean up with ball hone and run new rings on factory pistons?
Should I have new valve stem seals installed?
Run a new crank damper? (Lightweight or ATI or OE?)
What ELSE do I need to pay attention to have the best shot at good reliability and long-life without re-visiting these items too soon?
I will of course be running a new clutch and I'm leaning towards the LUK DMF089 Dual Mass FW and LUK 03050 PP/Disk/TB as I can pick that set up for a great price.
Unless you suspect that something is wrong with the internals I wouldn’t mess with the crank or pistons. If you do those you are essentially doing a complete rebuild. If you are going to do a rebuild then do it right and send the block and head to the machine shop and have them go through it. Crank also. When you change crank bearings you take the chance that they will not seat properly. You have to match crank bearings with the crank wear and you need to do your research on proper clearances. I say this with the knowledge of having rebuilt V8s from bare block on up. If you have never rebuilt an engine you need to do your homework before you decide to tear down your engine. There is a lot more detail to it than on the face of it. Especially if you want it to last.
I run a boat restoration shop and have been rebuilding engines for the last 40 years from SBC's to exotic V12's .... good experiences... The work is not the issue, nor paying attention to specs... I'm just in uncharted waters with doing my first W11 and hope to benefit from the wealth of experience on the NAM forums !
It’s an engine like any other. Just get the correct specs and parts. It goes together like any other. If I was replacing an engine I would put in one that I knew was going to last a while. If you’ve done engine work this is no big deal.
But.. with the questions above... and the fact that I will NOT be boring the block, nor running new pistons etc... and that it is a relatively low mile block...
What are the things to re seal etc as listed in the first post?
Originally Posted by mountainhorse
Hoping that some of you can take a few minutes to help me out.
I'm working on a couple of R53 projects....
One of them, Is to replace a tired, but functional engine... and I'm finding some low-ish mile take out engines (with documentation on the mileage).
For this car... I want to do a swap out of the engine... with a good used one.
I'd like to tend to the known issues of the W11-R53 engine before it goes back in.
The engine that I will probably buy is a 2006 MCS W11 with 57,500 miles on it.... It has been taken down to the long block.... no supercharger/alternator etc.
I'm thinking at this "mid mile mark" to freshen it up... but still retain the stock pistons if everything measures out ok for taper and concentricity of bore &pistons.
What are the things to tend to...and what parts are best in terms of quality ... keeping in mind this will NOT be a tracked car.
Things I can think of doing.
Replace timing chain/sprockets and guides. (which brand or OEM?)
New pan gasket (which brand)
New valve cover gasket.
Front and rear Main Seals. (whats best, oe or aftermarket)
New timing cover seals and Oil-pump in/out seals.
Camshaft and crankshaft sensor seals.
Should I pop in new standard main and rod bearings?
Should I do a quick clean up with ball hone and run new rings on factory pistons?
Should I have new valve stem seals installed?
Run a new crank damper? (Lightweight or ATI or OE?)
What ELSE do I need to pay attention to have the best shot at good reliability and long-life without re-visiting these items too soon?
I will of course be running a new clutch and I'm leaning towards the LUK DMF089 Dual Mass FW and LUK 03050 PP/Disk/TB as I can pick that set up for a great price.
You have a pretty good list. First decide if you’re doing the rings; if so then you are doing a complete rebuild and you might as well have the block rebuilt before reassembly. Of course you are replacing the water pump? Change the oil in the SC.
I'm leaning towards keeping the existing rings but cleaning carbon etc well and putting back together... Plasti-Gauging rod bearings and checking bores well. Not even de-glazing, not separating block halves.
Anyone else have any input on the questions above??
Sounds like OE timing sets are the best?
It wasn't about price, I just want the best quality and most durable in there as this seems to be a sore spot for the W11's.
Are OE parts the best for ALL engine parts for this kind of work/intent on this engine...or are some of the aftermarket offerings superior to OE in some things?
with a 57k mile engine I wouldn't do anything to it unless you see a leak that needs fixed...
I'm going to respectfully disagree with Way here, as yes, while the replacement engine only has 57k on the clock, we're still dealing with gaskets, o-rings and seals that have been on the engine since 2006. Running the engine 57,000 miles or 157,000 miles in that time frame does not change that. By now, these seals/gaskets/o-rings are no longer supple as when new, and have become more like hard plastic, as were mine when I pulled them from my engine. My oil filter housing gasket snapped in two pieces cleanly. Oil cooler o-rings and spark plug tube seals were hard as a rock. Every gasket, seal and o-ring I replaced (all of them) were well past prime.
The "new" 57,000 mile engine will be out of the car and infinitely accessible from all angles. In this case, it's foolish, IMO to NOT go through all the oil-relative consumables at that time, as opposed to later, when it's in the car, and the inevitable leaks start.
My 2¢
Originally Posted by mountainhorse
Are OE parts the best for ALL engine parts for this kind of work/intent on this engine...
Mostly yes, but instead of paying extra for the official "MINI Branded" parts, source them from the actual OE suppliers, although in the case of the crankshaft pulley, I'll agree with Way's suggestion of the ATI damper.
Last edited by AoxoMoxoA; 01-08-2019 at 05:49 AM.
Reason: Clarification
But if you are going to go as deep as bearings and guides you may want to just consider a brand new engine with everything new as that is the direction you will be heading https://www.waymotorworks.com/john-c...53-engine.html
Thanks Way seems like reasonable cost on the seal kit for the block components.
What about an overall kit for the engine all together? All seals and gaskets??
No, no guides or main bearings.
UNLESS... the block split line has ANY tendency to leak over the years.
Only possibly thinking of rod bearings if I pop out the pistons to clean and decarbonize them... might make sense.
My goal is to go back into my MCS and address the known issues at this point... Peppah is now 13 years old and I want to keep her for at least that again !!
New water pump, new injectors (for 16% pulley/tune), clean/inspect oil pump & pickup.
Question: Is there anything special about the valve stem seals on this engine in terms of installation?
Different than say, most other valve seals I've replaced?
I consider this as being an area I want to address as well for good measure... I may have a simple valve job done for good measure.
As many have said... the block and pistons are pretty durable...
.
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Last edited by mountainhorse; 01-09-2019 at 02:43 PM.
You mentioned the front main seal, which means you'll have the crank pulley off.
Are you planning on putting the old pulley back on?
If not, a new pulley will be needed, probably should go with the ATI unit.
If you're doing the complete timing cover components...
External Parts:
Serpentine Belt, p/n 11287520199
Belt Tensioner, p/n 11287509476
Idler Pulley, p/n 11288625983 (FYI - Many vendors offer the above three items as a kit)
Timing Cover special bolt w/integral o-ring, p/n 07131485184 (installs at center of timing cover, behind crank pulley)
Internal Parts:
Timing Cover Gasket, p/n 11141485162
Timing Case Cover Seal - Upper, p/n 11411485173
Timing Case Cover Seal - Lower, p/n 11411485172
I see that ATI has two avail.... stock diameter and 2% overdrive size.
Wondering how the 2% at the crank pulley translates to XX% for the aftermarket overdrive SC pulley??
I'm really leaning towards the JCW Supercharger replacement anyways... IF I do.... I believe that has an 11% OD pulley on it??
Wondering how the 2%-ATI OD Crank pulley WITH the JCW pencils out in terms of OVERALL %-ages?
New idler pulley while I'm at it??
Which one is best quality.... Aftermarket as good/better than OE?
It seems that in SOME cases (like the ATI damper below) that aftermarket has a better option in terms of quality and price.
.
Last edited by mountainhorse; 01-11-2019 at 06:11 PM.
Many of these gaskets and seals I feel are a waste as in the last 17yrs I've never replaced some of them. Rule of thumb if I don't have the gasket listed on my site I haven't had to replace it. OTHER seals/items I'd like to replace
Unless you suspect that something is wrong with the internals I wouldn’t mess with the crank or pistons. If you do those you are essentially doing a complete rebuild. If you are going to do a rebuild then do it right and send the block and head to the machine shop and have them go through it. Crank also. When you change crank bearings you take the chance that they will not seat properly. You have to match crank bearings with the crank wear and you need to do your research on proper clearances. I say this with the knowledge of having rebuilt V8s from bare block on up. If you have never rebuilt an engine you need to do your homework before you decide to tear down your engine. There is a lot more detail to it than on the face of it. Especially if you want it to last.
I totally agree, if you find a low mile unit in good known running condition there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to open it up, inspect it for the common leaking EXTERNAL seals, replace as needed and put that unit into service.
To start... the engine I'm subbing-in is a long block... so no ancillary components on it (no SC, alt, oil filter, tensioners, belts, plumbing etc... just the long block assy.
On a 12 year old motor... I'll be doing the gaskets anyway...which means I'll have the timing cover, pan, valve cover, oil filter, front and rear main seals off and the engine will be pretty open at that point.
Then... new chain guides/tensioner and timing set.
Looking at a motor with this done... popping the pistons out and clean and de-carbon.... add some inexpensive ARP rod bolts, plasti-gauge, check ring condition and end-gap in the bore... pretty darn straight forward and only 2 more hours of labor unless I find an issue (which would be good to know now).
A new head gasket is pretty inexpensive... and a fresh set of head bolts or a $100 set of ARP head studs... good measures IMO... and in the overall scope of the project ...easy for me to justify. For me, regardless of the miles on an engine, for a build that was not to sell a car or baby it through a few more years... I would not put a used long block into a car without checking everything.
From what i'm reading on here from others about these engines....in another post where I'll be doing a full rebuild for a second car... these engines can run strong for a long, long time when properly maintained.
With a freshened motor with this low of miles, re-sealed... a new clutch ... i really do not anticipate pulling this motor for many miles and anticipate another 150K out of it.
The major effort here, for me, is having the motor out of the car in the first place... this stuff is minor IMO.
I could see if someone were working on the floor in their garage, with only basic tools, this may be intimidating however... I get that.
But this W11-Tritec engine seems very straight forward at this point to me... and will be on the stand next to four other V8's in my shop... good company.
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Last edited by mountainhorse; 01-13-2019 at 12:24 PM.
01-07-2019, 03:02 PM
