Who's waiting for '07 MINI's?
 

I've been reading posts in other forums where people are waiting for the '07 model year before they purchase their next MINI. They seem to be anticipating the new engines that are supposed to be available in the '07 models. I was thinking about purchasing a MINI next year, but it would make more sense for me to wait until my daughter starts to drive in a couple of years .... especially if the '07 models would have some advantages over the current models. Is anybody out there postponing their MINI purchase until the '07 models are available? I would be interested in hearing your reasons! Thanks!

i am waiting. i was thinking of purchasing now, but i'd rather have the anticipated turbocharged engine. it doesn't make financial sense to buy one now and then trade up b/c i have a feeling re-sale isn't going to be AS great forever (and it is great, i sold my 03 for what i paid for it w/ 38k miles). the supercharger whine was cool, but the hissing and whining of a turbo is cooler. :thumbsup:

I am on the list...... :smile:
Car will be a little larger, Engine will be better and maybe there will be a improvement in the convertible.

I'm not waiting. I haven't read every detail about the new car, but what I have read relates to BMW's concerns with the cost of the current car, and their attempts to lower cost with the next generation. I don't have high hopes that their cost cutting will in all cases result in a better car. Nor do I expect that all their efficiency gains will result in a poorer product. It's just that, generally speaking, when any auto manufacturer enters into a car program with the goal of reducing cost, the product suffers. Best example that comes to mind is Mercedes products of the mid 90's - the E class in particular. I don't want to be bleak, and I could certainly be wrong, but based on history I'm not waiting.

Some folks are waiting for the '07s, but a new powertrain starts the "new model bug cycle" all over again. I'd rather have a well-sorted product, and the '05 model year seems to be nearly there.

I'm not selling my '03 MINI. Not voluntarily, anyway. I expect to be in an urn before I let this car leave my stable. Resale value is, for me at least, merely a hypothetical number. The only reason I care about it is in case some calamity befell my car- higher ACV means a better insurance settlement: a better chance to get him fixed, or, if it comes to it, putting another pre-'07 MINI in the garage.

I'll take the supercharger over the turbo any day of the week. Howling is better than whining!:cool:

I am also waiting for the next R56 MINI generation but I will not jump on it right away... Not at least until '08-'09 when the initial first year "bugs" are fully worked out.

Last week I was thinking of selling my '04 MCS and moving to a '05 MCS but decided that the chanmges were not substantial enough to trade a totally reliable and practically brand new car onto another one which is essentially the same model save the extra 5HP and shortened gear ratios.

So I am going to keep my '04 MCS for a long time, enjoy it, do some serious motoring in it and see what the future has in store for the R56 MINI.

I am very excited indeed.:thumbsup:

The R56 MINI is not scheduled to hit showrooms at least until Sept-Oct 2006, so it is still a little less than 2 years away.

I expect to be in an urn before I let this car leave my stable.

:lol: :lol: Me too, dude! You'll get my '04 Indi Blue MCS when you pry it from my cold dead hands!

I have the same concerns. If the reported cost cutting plans are true, I'll buy an '06 to replace my '03 and that will be the car that I keep forever.

Of course, we won't know anything for sure for a very long time. :confused:

There are no definite words on what the final production R56 MINI will look like, at least not known outside of BMW's office walls.

If I wanted a new MINI now, I would order a '05, drive it and enjoy it for 3 years and then trade/sell for a new R56 with the bugs worked out.

The '04 and '05 MINIs are the best of the bunch in terms of quality and reliability.

We're going to have the best of both worlds. We've got an '02 and plan on getting an '07. The '02 will by mine while my parents will get the new one. Fine with me, the stiffer the suspension, the better :grin: .

I am looking forward to the 2007 2nd generation version. Should hit our shores around September 2006. Not very far away. A short 22 month wait should be worth it. I am looking forward to the larger turbocharged engine (1.8L ?) and increase in performance. I am placing my name on the local Mini retailer waiting list around October of next year. BMW will keep all the positves with the current model, and get rid of the few negative areas buyers currently have with their Mini's.

https://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/...-rodster-2.jpg

"I'll take the supercharger over the turbo any day of the week. Howling is better than whining!:cool:"

I couldn't agree more, supercharged is the way to go!

Turbocharger vs Supercharger


Turbochargers and superchargers have both been around for many decades - cramming air into engines to squeeze out as much power as possible. The turbocharger vs supercharger debate has raged for just as long as they have existed. There are those who swear by one or the other, but in reality, both turbochargers and superchargers have their own strengths and weaknesses.

The Supercharger

Superchargers are compressors which use power from the engine to compress the intake air. In reality, turbochargers are superchargers which are driven by engine exhaust. Typically, however, when one refers to a supercharger, they mean all superchargers except turbochargers. There are three types of superchargers which are commonly used: the roots blower, centrifugal superchargers, and screw-type superchargers. Each of these superchargers are driven by a pulley system by the engine crankshaft, so the faster the engine speed, the faster the supercharger speed. The roots blower and screw-type superchargers typically operate up to 15,000 RPMS. The centrifugal supercharger can reach speeds exceeding 40,000 RPMS.

The Turbocharger

Turbochargers, however, are driven by the engine's exhaust gases. A turbocharger operates at maximum speeds often reaching 150,000 RPMS. Follow this link to find out more about how a turbo works.

The Comparison: Turbocharger vs Supercharger

Response. Superchargers afford the engine immediate response since the supercharger is always compressing intake air, provided that the engine is rotating. Although this initial boost is very small, it's growth is gradual with increased engine speed, resulting in a smooth increase in power. Turbochargers, on the other hand, suffer from what is refered to as turbo lag. Becuase of the inertia of the turbocharger rotating assembly, the turbo must "spool up" before it is able to compress air, so there is no power increase at low engine speeds, as the turbo impeller starts rotating. At WOT (wide-open throttle), there is usually a very sudden increase in turbo boost at a certain RPM range (typically near 3000 RPM). If you've ever driven a turbocharged vehicle, you probably know what this kick in the pants feels like. Turbochargers can also be sized so that faster response is acheived. For example, diesel engines use turbochargers which are small enough to spool by 1700-2000 RPMS. The trade-off is that maximum power can't be reached with such a small turbocharger.

Parasitic Power Loss. Becuase superchargers are driven by the crankshaft, they draw some of the power which the crankshaft would be producing to compress the intake air. This parasitic power loss can exceed 50 hp. Of course, the supercharger is more than making up for the power it uses by introducing additional air. Turbochargers, however, do not use any of the crankshaft's power in order to operate. Turbos are often described as exhaust restrictions, though. The argument is that the increased exhaust backpressure presented by the turbo also robs power from the crankshaft (since it is now harder to push the piston up to expell the exhaust gases. This argument, however, is overstated. Because the intake air is also under pressure (typically greater pressure until the maximum horsepower engine speed), it pushes the piston down. For the majority of the power band, these two forces cancel on another out. Because turbochargers do not use much of the power output of an engine, the highest power levels are possible when using a turbocharger rather than a suprecharger.

Heat Production. Cooler intake air is denser - which means more oxygen per unit volume. More oxygen means more power. Roots blowers are notorious for their heat production. This heat production is a result of inefficient compression of the intake charge. Turbochargers tend to operate at a much better efficiency than thest upes of superchargers. Centrifugal superchargers can be just as efficient as turbochargers, and offer the advantage of flexibility in placement. Turbochargers must be placed so that the exhaust flows through the turbo's turbine. This brings the hot exhuast pipes closer to the intake pipes - resulting in higher intake temperatures. A well designed centrifugal supercharger installation can reduce this heating, resulting in a cooler intake charge.

Reliability. People often say that superchargers are more reliable than turbochargers. Because turbochargers operate at such high temperatures and are oil lubricated, if they are not allowed to cool down before the engine is turned off, the oil can bake inside the turbocharger. This can result in shorter turbocharger life. However, with proper care and cool down, a turbocharger can last as long as an engine.

Boost Levels. For absolute maximum power applications on stout engines, turbochargers allow much higher boost levels than superchargers. In tractor pulling, to take the example to the extreme, up to three turbochargers are used in series to produce boost levels of up to nearly 200 psi!


Superchargers Turbochargers Roots Blowers Twin-Screw Superchargers Centrifugal Superchargers Response 3000 RPM Fast Very Fast 3000 RPM Power Drain Very Low High High High Heat Production Moderate Very High Moderate Moderate Reliability Good Very Good Excellent Very Good Boost Levels Very High Low Low Moderate Manufacturers Garrett, Holset, KKK, Mitsubishi Eaton Whipple, Kenne Bell Vortec (Vortech), Paxton
Conclusion: Turbocharger or Supercharger?

You can see that it is difficult to say which is better. The main advantages to supercharging are low-end response (not the case with centrifugal types) and simplicity. The main advantages to turbocharging are efficiency and the realization of maximum power. It is up to the vehicle owner to decide which solution is best for him or her. If you're considering turbocharging your engine, please have a look at our additional technical articles, as well as our product, TurboCalculator, which will aid in the relatively complex task of selecting the proper turbocharger for your engine. We also sell turbos and accessories.

As to all of the technical information in the last post- agreed.

I favor the crank-driven supercharger for 2 reasons- one logical, one not so logical:

1) Before the new MINI came along, I was a LBC nut of the MG variety. MGs have traditionally been equipped with crank-driven superchargers to increase output. The puffer gets the nod for heritage.:cool:

2) For the sort of use my MINI sees, on tight, twisty roads, with lots of stuff to avoid (traffic, the occasional animal, etc.) the crank-driven supercharger makes more sense. Lots of the places I drive don't afford an opportunity to get a turbo really spooled up- by the time I'd manage this, I'd have to be on the brakes again for one reason or another. I'm just too impatient for a turbo. It would be endless frustration at almost, but not quite, feeling the full performance potential of the car. I want instant gratification!:grin:

Now, if most of my driving was open highway and wide sweepers, as is common out west, that would change things...

Where would you recommend the best place is to get up to date info on the next gen MINI?

This is my opinion, but now they have smaller turbos and better technology and a lot of that low end advantage that superchargers had is gone. Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru, Volkswagon, Audi, and even Dodge, all use turbos in their compacts that dominate that sport compact car niche performance market. I can't think of any that use superchargers but feel free to list them out. :)

Plus it sounds so nice...

I was told by a MINI tech that one of the future engines to be used was a Peugot 1.9L supercharged. He seemed to think it would only be a couple years (perhaps 07?) before this would happen. He was very sure of himself concerning this, but then I suppose plans can change. :wink:

You got to be kidding
 

No really, you have to kidding yourself. I postponed buying mine because I won't purchase a first year model car.
Why not just delay for 5 years then you can drive a heavy fat econo box with mushy suspension and a French engine for +$$.
Did it ever occur to you that there aren't any French built cars sold in the USA anymore and why that is. The french car I owned had engine problems but I liked the design and fixed it, parts were expensive. Peugot does build a good diesel but I don't know anything about thier small car engine's you see on TV road rallying.
And finally you will be missing two years of fun if your still alive by then.

that is pure speculation (albeit the turbo is a rumor too but with many sources)..it would be like me saying that theyre using a 1.8L turbo engine from toyota. arguably toyota builds the most reliable engines in the world and you would be in bad judgement to buy anything previous to that engine coming out. and afterall the engine in YOUR mini (which i have owned myself) is built by chrysler...not exactly ground breaking SOHC technology or anything known for reliablity. :)

I was under the impression that the MINI was being "dumbed down" in the future to increase their output and their profitability. Less complexity, easier assembly, greater throughput = more economical to produce and sell. That said I'd speculate the new mini will be worse, not better... .especially if it coincides with the arrival of the 1 series.

--
Cheese

I'm waiting for the '07 as well as saving for it...
i've been without a mini for a year now... it's tough trust me!!! :wink:
luckily i'm within walking distance from work!

Waiting for the '07 in hopes that a wagon or 5-door hatch version comes out :thumbsup:

While the Chrysler is not groundbreaking it is pretty realiable and pretty stout for an engine. One of the reasons you hear almost nothing about engine failures despite most people pushing the car above 200hp and many, many racers pushing these cars as well.

I think people will realize that they will lose some of the character going with a turbocharger from this car. The main characteristic of this car is handling. Going hard through roads such as the Dragon's tail requires some extreme slowdowns, and then flooring the engine. If you have to wait for the turbo to spool up, it will really change the dynamics of the "instant power" that we get with this car. The reason that most sport compacts use turbo's is because of their relative cheap cost, availability, and culture. I agree that turbo's have advantages and disadvantages just like blowers. But for this type of car and it's dynamics, I think superchargers can't be beat. There is a neat feeling to the sound of a supercharger, compared to the blowoff valve sounds and pops from the teen culture.

Also, I have my doubts on the Peugot engine. We will see. It should be arriving in cars mid '05. Peugot has a few cars this engine will go into, prior to being seen in the Mini. Contrary to a lot of people's belief that this is a great joint project and that the new engine will be geared to the Mini, are wrong. This is another mass produced engine (just like the Chrysler) that will be found on many different platforms. I am sure that BMW had some input, but overall it will be a compromise engine that will be used in other sport compacts throughout Europe.

MINIs keep their value AMAZINGLY...so buy one now and then trade it in 4 years and you'll get money back to use for down payment on the new one after the kinks have been worked out...

if u don't get one now, what will u drive the next 2-4 years? an older, paid-off vehicle would be a fine choice, but less fun and more expensive to maintain (tho no car note!)...but if u are gonna have to drive a different car that has a note on it instead, just go ahead and get the MINI for the fun, reliability, gas mileage, and resale value...

also, if they do go to **** cause of cost-cutting, etc...then u'll have one of the last model years of a future classic!