Hey all -

New to the Mini Cooper game. I recently bought an 05, "S", with a JCW package. Fun car so far..!
2 questions about the clutch workings.

1. Is it possible to disconnect the engine start lockout at the clutch ? Not sure if that's the correct wording, but I'd like to not have to push the clutch in to start the engine. It taxes the thrust, main bearing, the starter, the battery, the throwout bearing...

2. So I don't hurt mine from being dumb...is easy (not slamming it) clutchless shifting possible with the 6spd. in the Mini's without hurting them ? I've done this for years on my motorcycles, with older American three and four speed transmissions, again, no problem. I know little to nothing about how these work and don't want to blow it up doing what I've done for many years on other vehicles. Doing this makes the clutch disc last nearly for ever.
And yea...I know, not starting from a stop..!

Mike

 

Both of your suggestions are ill-advised. My R53 has 155K and I bet my clutch will last that many miles again.

 

And why ARE they ill advised ?
Complete answers are welcome..!

As to JAB's clutch lasting comment... When you use it, it wears...fact of life.
But thanks for that.

Mike

 

If you want to read up on the transmission it is Getrag 285. Also used in the Ford Focus (I think ST) in the early 2000's) and in the Audi TT of that vintage. Gear ratios for our cars were changed slightly in 05 to give better acceleration through the gears at the expense of some extra revs cruising in top gear.

It has a twin layshaft design so it nice and compact. I don't know that speed shifting would hurt it IF DONE PROPERLY BY REV MATCHING, but why? Synchros are good, and these are pretty smooth transmissions. The question is how robust is the transmission? Given size and weight considerations, I suspect not overly built.

Clutch interlock is there for a reason, but it is probably defeatable (I don't know how on this car, but most cars have a switch up on the clutch pedal so take a look). On my BMW, they route the cruise control through it so it is not so easy to defeat. But the Euro version of my BMW does not have the interlock there is a euro part for the cruise control without the interlock. You might also check to see if the Euro cars have the clutch interlock switch.

Regards,
Jerry

 

You can tell who the biker is when reading this thread, haha

The clutch lockout is a safety feature. No harm in defeating it if you know what you're doing (ie don't hit the starter in gear) because its purpose is to protect you from doing dumb things. That being said, accidents happen so I see no gain in defeating it.

Re clutchless shifting, I clutchless shift my bike all the time but the lazier responses in modern car engines makes it much trickier. You have to preload the gear a little and the synchros don't like that. Same as the previous point; you can do it but to no advantage.

 

cyow5 (all) -

All, not trying to be a smart-*** here, just am interested in others possible experiences and knowledge here to get more knowledge for myself in how to make my car fore drive-able for...me. Not particularly anyone else (unless interested in the same), just me.

Again, I do believe I mentioned the advantages of the clutch lockout removal in my original post..!
From my original post - ""It taxes the thrust, main bearing, the starter, the battery, the throwout bearing...""
"Taxes", means basically that it adds an, unwanted load
As far as not accidentally starting it in gear... While sure, it is possible...NONE of my cars that I've ever owned (67+yrs old), have had clutch lockouts. I've also disconnected that feature from all of my motorcycles since 1986, and so far...I've not had anything ugly happen, cars or bikes.

And the clutchless shifting. Again, please reread my post -
""is easy (not slamming it) clutchless shifting possible with the 6spd.""
"Easy" is the key word here. Just normal upshifting as you make your way through the gears while driving away from a stop. If you know how transmissions work, you'll know it doesn't hurt a thing if done correctly. And to my point, my knowledge of these transmissions is in the kindergarten stage..!

Mike

 

I like to keep an open mind on anything so I will first try to point out a few holes in your arguments.

Firstly by not depressing clutch when starting, you are actually harder on the starting and the battery in cold weather. The starter has to turn the input shaft of the gearbox when the gearbox oil is very viscous. It also have to overcome additional inertia of the friction disc and the pressure plate. When I lived in the frigid NE with on the way out battery, one thing that I know is always depress the clutch when starting the engine in sub-zero ambient. It make a huge difference in the stress on the starter and already temperature-derated battery cranking amperage.

You can observe this if you jack up the front wheels. In low ambient when the transmission is in neutral and the cold engine idling right after being started, both front wheel rotates. Magic? No. Hydraulic transmission, or a pseudo slush box, yes.

Motorcycle gearbox is sequential and very different animal. I wager you do not fully understand how "modern" gearbox works. Instead of letting us tell you why these are bad and misplace ideas why don't you explain to us your knowledge of manual transmission and why "power-shifting" is not bad for the gearbox internals.

The only time I will do clutchless shifting is if I am in a bind, stranded and need to get back home with a failed clutch.

 

 

I do not perceive the OP has a condescending tone at all. Unless you are directed at me. I am interested in his supported arguments why it is not harmful to the gearbox internals, as well as the driveline.

 

 

1. I'll agree with the others here that its possible but pointless. Your OP about taxing the listed components, while arguably true, reads like a solution to a problem that doesnt exist. I managed ~165k out of my first clutch and paid about 1200 to have it replaced. So my clutch cost me $.007/mile and the disc was toast. I've gone through two batteries out of my stupidity in not turning lights off. My starter is still fine at 225k. Faffing about removing an interlock under the guise of lowering wear is pointless when that wear is insignificant. This would be like me saying I wanted to remove the little actuation of the window when the door opens/closes because it taxes the window motor/battery. The statement isn't false but its basically irrelevant to the actual wear of the system.

2. survey says yes.

 

It's all in what you're used to. I've been driving sports cars for near 50 years so when I get in my co-pilot's slush box R60 I've nearly stomped a hole where the clutch pedal should be. It just may take a while to learn to hit that pedal if your're not used to it.

 

Thanks to this thread. I learnt a few things about sequential dog boxes used in Formula 1.

The article says the shift is complete in 10-15 milliseconds. That sounds impossible to me given there are solenoids and hydraulic valves involved. Electric contact bounces settling time typically is in the order of 10 milliseconds.

 

MCS (others) -

On your #1 comment -
Reread, clutch wear is not my concern when starting the engine as you comment.
Sorry, but I like to remove loads to other systems when they are not a requirement.
If you're old...like me, this clutch depress thing came about from people trying to start their engines (NOT cars !) while in gear...and running into other cars...or people. I had a neighbor who did this to his brand new 68 Corvette, back in 1968. Ran "under" his Grandmothers Pontiac Station wagon..!
Unlike a comedians comments about not being able to fix stupid (""Can't fix stupid""), this factory modification did...in fact, fix some stupid.
The pushing of the clutch to start the engine thing, didn't come about, for about 75+ years AFTER the beginning of the manual shift car was built. So yea...it's NOT a requirement for people that pay attention to what they are doing.
Kinda like todays computer applied brakes when SENSORS (not the driver !) see problems when the driver was on his/her cell phone. or eating, or..., or the computer warnings that tell you, you are drifting out of your lane..! Again, fixing stupid.

On #2 -
Great, thank you for finding that.
Now I can go out and feel a little better about doing this. I'll then decide when and "IF" to do this myself. I have a little better feeling that if done correctly I wont be tearing up anything inside the trans. If I feel I can do this correctly, great. If not, the clutch it is.

A couple of you -
Thanks for at least understanding others points of view. Everyone should have their own path. Follow or lead. Me, I don't much follow, and the only person I lead is myself. If others follow, that's fine, I'll help all I can. Maybe that's why I don't have a ton of friends, but the ones I do have, we've been friends for 30 and 40+ years.

Some of the others -
As for some of you feeling that I think I'm something, or condescending, or have holes in my arguments...
Just because a person doesn't happen to agree with you, or another, doesn't mean that person (me in this case) is an (insert adjective here).
Just because a person doesn't follow a particular crowd...well, if I need to explain that... Maybe, just maybe some need to grow up and get past the 8th or 9th grade.

Me -
Forgive me if I'm "just" in the learning phase of this new car I've gotten myself into. I may not follow any particular "single" idea, I like to get more...than one thought or idea from others as I learn and run with that to form "my own" thoughts. Yes, I do...as we all should do, is learn from others, BUT the next step is the fun step...experiment, out of the proverbial box.
I hate "wives tales" and "myths". And just like many other hobbies, or things people do for enjoyment, the auto "enthusiast" group is no different. Wives tales are abundant in the aftermarket auto (and others) industry. Blindly following others is not fun. You'll always be behind. One needs to think out of the box, experiment, "learn". Life is (normally !) much more enjoyable doing things your way, not blindly following others..
I will not be squeezed into a box just because others think I need to be there just because they are. Never have been, don't intend to start now.

So, all that said, if you find me to be a ****, save yourself your aggravation of helping me with me future questions with your answers.
And a thank you to to the folks that might like to help out a new guy that just wants to learn a little about these cool little cars.

Mike

 

You know your incoherent, and hard to follow post only expose you as one that is very set in their way person too confident of his capabilities and infallible habits. You have contradicted yourself in countless places. Your notion that clutchless shifting will save wear and tear of a synchromesh box fit very well into one of those ole-wives tale, and your are one who first bring up wives tales in this thread.

 

Also new to the forum . . .

Seems counter-intuitive, to me, to defeat a safety interlock that will one day prevent an equipment accident or worse, an injury. All it would take is to let someone drive your car & forget to tell them it will start in gear.

Clutchless shifting is pretty hard on synchros, no matter how good you are at rev matching - just my opinion.

I had an early focus zx3, sounds like same tranny. Had to rev match to downshift into 2nd even using clutch, esp when cold.

 

Yeh, but he never make mistakes so it will never happen to him. Same with those people think that they can multitask so they text when they drive and think no texting is for people with lesser mental and hand dexterity.

Oh, and automakers reluctantly put in the clutch as most drivers cannot do perfect rev matching like him and are in too much of a hurry to get somewhere.

 

You ladies are funny and...don't read well.
I said (read the underlined part...""As far as not accidentally starting it in gear... While sure, it is possible...NONE of my cars that I've ever owned (67+yrs old), have had clutch lockouts."
Not at all saying it CAN'T happen, just saying, that so far...it hasn't.
Hope that;s more clear,
And yea, no eating, shaving, brushing my teeth, reading a book or anything else while I'm driving. Hell, I multitask daily, it keeps me employed, making pretty decent money..!

Maybe a coupe of you shouldn't dry your hair in the bath tube...or did you read the note ?

Mike

 

I read your statement perfectly fine. I suspect you misunderstood my answer...I wasn't implying that your concern was disk wear. You made it very clear that your issues were with unwanted wear to the bearings/starter/battery. I brought up disk wear as an example that, as seen by plenty of forum members, the disk will wear out sooner than the bearings regardless of an extra clutch depression. I addressed your other two concerns, battery and starter motor, by saying that the battery will be replaced, either by accident or merely by time, before any additional loading causes failure and that plenty of us have never changed our starter motors.

If you really want to bypass it, I would pm one of the sponsors/people who have their minis set up for racing. I imagine, of all the people here, they would be the most likely to have bypassed the interlock

 

PS. - Just before my previous post I had just returned from about 20 miles up my local canyon road. Good times. Also did a few non-clutch shifts on the way to and from the mountains. All is good.
While different from being on a bike, just as fun.

Mike