Track Tire suggestion
 

I plan on doing about 5-8 HPDE this season and some Rally (meaning going from point A to point B, In a spirited driving style in Mountains Ect). I was looking for tires that can handle both Task. I also drive the car to the track and not worried about rain, because i will be using some Continental DW for does situation. This car will not be daily driving. I will only drive it to work when i need to bed the brakes before a track event.

Here is what i have looked at so far, trying to stay sub $200. Keep in mind i don't mind buying cheap good tires. I'm not doing competition here everything is being done just for fun.

Wheels are 17x7 37 offset. I haven't purchased the wheels yet, but if you recommend and different size just let me know.

all in this size 215-45-17
There is about $50 difference between the two, But would like to hear from people which have race with or have experience with any of the one i listed. The only tire i have experience with is the RE050 and at the track they are really really good. So if any of this other tires better then the RE050 then it will be good for me (the RE050 Run out fast fast fast).
Nitto NT-01 (Top of my list do to price) Top Picks
Ventus R-S3 (Top of my list do to price) Top Picks
Potenza RE050A (This are very good on the track had them in the past)
Toyo Proxes R1R
Toyo Proxes R888 (over budget but by a little margin)
Michelin Pilot Super Sport
Hankook Ventus TD Z221 Hard

I would suggest the Potenza RE-71R instead of the RE050A or Michelin PSS. Even though it has a wear rating of 200 it has the grip of an R-comp. It is less expensive than the R-comps you have listed.

Not sure I would do much driving on the road with the R888s, R1Rs, R-S3s, Z2221s or NT01s. For these, save the wear for the track.

As for wheels, the size you have in mind is great. However, for a better setup think about a 15x8 and go with a 225-45. They are a lot lighter and tires are even less expensive. Lighter = go faster more quickly...Here is a thread you might be interested in and it may help with some ideas:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post4191740

Have Fun!

I will be getting an R56 JCW BBK soon. So i need 17+. The car i currently have came with OZ Racing Crono HT and has some ***** tires on it.

My 2 cents:


Remove the thought about R-Comps from your selection process. Sounds like you are new to track/HPDE, but r comps will stunt your growth.


Stay in the EHP (extreme performance) category. Even so, the last 5 years have really seen the competition in this category bring these tires to near R compound levels of performance.


Your usual suspects will be:
Hankook RS3 v2
Dunlop Direzza Z2 Star Spec
Yokohama AD08R
Kumho V720
Bridgestone RE71R
Toyo R1R < toss this one, unnecessarily expensive


Your goal with an EHP tire is predictable performance which is why I tend to not recommend any Max Summer tire like the Michelin Pilot Super Sport. With the MHP and UHP categories, once the tires overheat the performance completely falls off the cliff and its like you are skating on ice. With an EHP, the tire will eventually get overworked but you can feel the difference and you learn to keep the tire in its happy zone.


Personally, I have been extremely happy with the RS3 (both ver1 and ver2; although I prefer version1; version 2 was a downgrade in terms of terminal performance). I have also driven on the Dunlop Direzza Z1 star spec, Z2 and Z2 star spec, bridgestone RE11/A and BFG Rival (not the new Rival S). The Rs3 has really good tire life, value and performance so that's the recommendation I would go with.


The RE71R is definitely the new hotness for the 1 lap wonders. This tire is insanely good but from what I also understand, it also doesn't last very long.

Good advice. I run in HPDE and have used Nitto NT05's and Dunlop Direzza ZII's. From those 2 tires, I prefer the Dunlop's.

Thanks for the suggestion. I was also thinking of getting the RS3. so i will go for that.

You didn't go into detail regarding R-Comps Just curious?

Seems like some great information in this thread. Just subscribing so I can come back in a few weeks when I'm ready to pull the trigger on a new set for the season...

I didn't bother with elaborating about the r comp because I do not recommend it for beginners. If and when advanced drivers are ready for r comps they will have the prerequisite knowledge to know what they are looking.

Principally the advantage of the r comp is in its ability to handle and tolerate a higher more absolute heat range. The problem is if you can't generate the speeds and therefor the heat; you will end up being slower than an intermediate driver on an appropriate UHP or EHP tire.

R comps have a very narrow heat range that they work in, are generally more expensive than EHPs and don't last as long.

As a beginner in HPDE you want to look for:
Steady reliable performance
Ease of use
Longevity
Cost effective

All things an r comp are not.

If you guys get serious here are the tools you need to be successful (minimum):
Notebook
Good accurate, reliable tire pressure gauge ( at the minimum joes racing or Longacre)
Needle pyrometers tire probe (no lasers)

With these three items (along with Harry's lap timer) you can advance and improve very fast as a driver.

+1 to what he said

I have both the Dunlop ZII and R888. I do only marginally better with the R888s. They don't produce enough performance difference to justify the additional $100/tire premium. I will probably get a set of the RE71Es the next time around.

Another downside to R Comps is that you need suspension mods to make use of them. The R888s require a minimum of -1 deg of camber, up to -3 deg. and added caster. And that is probably just the start of those mod.

To expand on what GPToyz said, a novice should be learning technique and how to get the most out of the car before doing mods to improve speed and time. Learning technique will allow you to progress into these other options and make the best use of them.

Let me guess - Philly, PA? Looking to do track or autocross or just a bit of adventuresome highway driving?

I concur with the above suggestions that you refrain from buying R-Comps until you can appreciate them. Kinda like giving a cat a holiday...It doesn't know what to do with it! :) A reasonably good tread will also allow you to run in the rain (which is a great teacher!) whereas, an R-Comp will have you sitting in the paddock...if you're smart.

Yah my first track day ever was in the rain not fun at all. Lucky for me i was able to open her up on the last session of the day, when the track started to dried up. I'm still a noob (5 track days (they are expensive damn why don't i have a different hobby LOL) i guess, but last time i was on the track the instructor told me i was ready for advance techniques like trail braking ect and he suggested for me to move up to the next class. The funny thing is that racing on a video game vs the Track is super similar - the G forces and the actual feel of the tires lips about to roll on to themselves lol (on a racing rig, which i have. Wish i could get the one with hydraulic, but don't want to spend that kind of money).

This will be my first FWD car at the track. Will be getting a rear sway bar to get the back end to rotate more. I'm about to order suspension/Brakes goodies. Car came with some BC coilovers with one broken stud on each tower which i contacted BC and they want $7 for a set of 3, but want $15 for shipping with left me with WTF (if anyone has any other solutions i'm all ears). Unfortunately i also have to take some of the modification this car has off since it been suggested for longevity purpose. The 17% SCP and 2% light crank pulley. Will be replacing with a 15% and the ATI Dampener. Also thinking about an oil Accumulator.

Any good articles on coilover set up for this cars (for track not stance lol)?

Currently working on making my own brake duct kit, since i find the available kit way too expensive and have some left overs from my Gen coupe. Also anyone know where i can get TI Shims for the R56 JWC BBKs? This was on of does upgrades which was night and day on my Genesis coupe. I still have the Shims for it, So i was thinking of just tracing the JCW pads and having a machine shop cut it out for me. If i can't find any.

So the last thing i would need was tires, but GT already gave me good feedback on which tires to get and it one that i was leaning too anyway lol. I knew about getting heat into the R tires and i totally forgot about that.

Any other suggestion ill take. very open minded here.

I find coilovers are a pain in the ass that distract most drivers from getting faster.


I would take a well sorted shock with and adjustable pillow ball camber plate and a quality linear rate spring that has been matched to the shock damper.


Ride height is simple < don't mess with it, except to corner balance the car. If you slam your car you lose suspension travel and you end up screwing up roll center, which will then require more parts (which equals more money to fix). The only time ride height really comes in to play is if you have aero; no point in running a splitter if you can't run low.


As far as the adjusters, on cheap crappy coilovers, you are lucky if they actually do anything consistent on an expensive coilover you hope the suspension tuner got the valving correct. However, the goal of the adjuster and valving is to keep the tire contacted to the ground. Suspensions should dampen a road imperfection in 1 cycle, up then down, of course this is ideally. You want to avoid the following conditions:
Over damped < car too stiff, tire loses contact
under damped < car not stiff enough, rolls too much, suspension oscillates because the spring takes over
Over sprung < car oscillates too much
under sprung < bottoms out suspension


Good suspension does not have to cost an arm and a leg, but often people don't know what they want except that generally they know more adjustability = better which means I will spend more money and a stiff suspension = a sporty suspension which means I am going fast.


My ideal suspension:
Bilstein Monotube Nonadjustable shock (debatable whether I want the shock threaded or not, maybe just to corner balance if the car is grossly unbalanced like the mini cooper)
Swift linear rate springs matched to shock
Pillow Ball Top Hats with adjustable camber plates
Most importantly: stock brake line, abs/speedsensor and brake wear sensor mounts


Rear sway bar:
Debatable whether this actually results in significant lap time gains, it definitely makes the car more fun to rotate.


As far as brakes:
Do not waste money on slotted, dimpled or cross drilled rotors and definitely avoid the ones that are cross drilled and slotted.


Get matching front and rear pads, braided lines and good fluid (RT700). Btw, alignment, tires and tire pressure will do more for braking than anything else, the pads are there to be able to provide the maximum mU over the widest operating range. Best thing you can do for braking is learn to carry corner speed. I think the last time I drove my mini on track, with the exception of the hairpins, I wasn't on the brakes too much because the car scrubs so much speed going through the corner.


Make sure make sure make sure you have enough oil and check the oil repeatedly after each session.

GPToyz gives excellent advice. Try not to throw all your mods on the car at one time. Do it in a logical progression so that you can evaluate what you've done. Otherwise, you'll spend a lot of time trying to figure out where you went wrong. The best money will be spent on seat time. Yes, it's rather expensive but, compared to throwing a lot of money into modding the car, it's not. Keep in mind that a highly skilled driver can take a stock vehicle and make it fly!

Both have excellent advice. I will add to that to forget about the rear sway bar and, instead, learn how to make the MINI rotate. It can be done. I have spun these cars with the stock suspension and it was easier to do with the sports suspension. Once you learn how to make the car perform, then look at modifications that will help you make it perform the way you want. Actually, there was recently a great article by Randy Probst in the SCCA magazine on how to use understeer to improve trail braking into a corner and how that can be faster than a car with oversteer, which a large RSB will give you.

At your experience level a large rear sway bar can be harmful. For example, if you hit a corner too hot and lift while you are going in, a MINI with a large RSB can spin faster than you can snap your finger. On tracks around here that means you plant your backside in a guardrail. Or worse yet, your front goes into the guardrail because it didn't make a full spin and the wheels got traction when you were 90 deg to the track.

I like the suggestion about going to the Bilsteins and the springs. It is simple and effective. And I don't say that just because that is I am doing this spring...:wink:

Tires and wheels came in today.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...e4bb062331.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.nor...ff54669a67.jpg

Nice :thumbsup:

Remember to scrub those in for a few miles to wear off the mold release oils.

it been Cold in the 40-55, so i haven't even put them one yet.

Yeah Philly metro area. Looking for some track days and auto X this year. I was just talking to the owner of Helix yesterday about good groups to check out in this area. I tracked my Clubman once and it was awesome. Now that I have an R53, tracking it was one of the main reasons I bought it. It still has run flats on OZ wheels. Those need to go immediately. I just got it back from Helix after they sorted out basically every gasket leaking oil.

Sorry to hear about the oil leaks. But that seems to be one of the few downfalls that engine has. But, otherwise, I think you will find the engine to be pretty "bullet proof".

For both you and HaveATank, I will recommend the BMWCCA events as the most well controlled and with the best learning experience. For Philly area there are a number of events in your area, some at NJMP - http://www.motorsportreg.com/calenda...-driver-school. In this area NJMP, Lime Rock Park and Watkins Glen are all very good place to go to.

Just be aware that BMWCCA events are slower than some groups to let you go solo and move you up. But they take the training side of HPDE very seriously and they want to make sure you are really at the point to level-up.

Ya, that is a little chilly to be running those fancy new tire...just wait a bit and you will have a chance to get them scrubbed in...:grin:

I have only done events with Metro PCA At NJMP. Looking to run at Lime Rock and Watkins this year, But since i have a mini I guess i will be welcomes into the BMWCCA lol.