R50/53 Can't get power to the pavement
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1st Gear
Joined: Oct 2015
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From: Jackson TN
I was thinking I need to get the alignment checked out, I wonder what they would charge just to check it... The car doesn't have camber plates or anything that I have seen, so I figured it would be stock on caster and camber, does anyone know what the stock toe in/camber/caster should be? Or better yet what a good toe in/camber/caster would be for a autocross style set up? Or street/strip? Or would they be close to the same? I know its alot of off the wall questions but I figured I'd get em all out while on the topic.
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Joined: Jul 2015
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The best investment you can make is better tires....
I have run both UHP-ALL seasons, and touring/grand touring tires... Huge difference... Night and day really.if it is cold, or there is a bit of sand, you can still spin the uhp's a bit, but not much...
Heck I once left a 75 foot stripe of rubber with my touring tires....were cheap and lasted long for commutes. So they are good for winter, used them for two winters , and while not as good as snows, the deeper treads did give better traction than the super shallow groves of a uhp tire in the snow and heavy rain.....
With tires my u got exactly what you paid for...I have run cheap and more $$ tires....often I ran Generals (now owned and made by Continental)....my last experience with even cheaper rubber, aka pepboys/fuzion/cooper crap was exactly that...crap...folks seem to post glowing reviews of then cause they had low expectations and they were better than terrible....
You might consider going to s 205 width...they for the sock rim fine with a 50 height...cheaper too...16 rims are actually nice and light, and provides better acceleration that 17 or 18 rims than can weigh 2x the amount....
Changing you suspension, etc till you get more traction from your tires us a waste of $$...so IMO save up....a LSD can be nice...but till you have about 200 HP, it can be a wish list item that is not really needed...heck $1000 is lots of $$, but if you add a used on in when you do a clutch, can save a few $$....
I have run both UHP-ALL seasons, and touring/grand touring tires... Huge difference... Night and day really.if it is cold, or there is a bit of sand, you can still spin the uhp's a bit, but not much...
Heck I once left a 75 foot stripe of rubber with my touring tires....were cheap and lasted long for commutes. So they are good for winter, used them for two winters , and while not as good as snows, the deeper treads did give better traction than the super shallow groves of a uhp tire in the snow and heavy rain.....
With tires my u got exactly what you paid for...I have run cheap and more $$ tires....often I ran Generals (now owned and made by Continental)....my last experience with even cheaper rubber, aka pepboys/fuzion/cooper crap was exactly that...crap...folks seem to post glowing reviews of then cause they had low expectations and they were better than terrible....
You might consider going to s 205 width...they for the sock rim fine with a 50 height...cheaper too...16 rims are actually nice and light, and provides better acceleration that 17 or 18 rims than can weigh 2x the amount....
Changing you suspension, etc till you get more traction from your tires us a waste of $$...so IMO save up....a LSD can be nice...but till you have about 200 HP, it can be a wish list item that is not really needed...heck $1000 is lots of $$, but if you add a used on in when you do a clutch, can save a few $$....
Even after noticing traction increases done with G Meters
No sir....
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2005
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From: San Francisco
A high speedo reading is normal for BMW and MINI vehicles. The topic seems to come up almost every day on this form.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2015
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I guess I am confused the OP already stated he was going to get new tires...as per suggestions earlier
I suggest suspension to go with it an then these posts showed up
Suspension is just as important to FWD as tires...simply because of weight transfer issue
Rear rigidity being the most important
I suggest suspension to go with it an then these posts showed up
Suspension is just as important to FWD as tires...simply because of weight transfer issue
Rear rigidity being the most important
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Tsunami Zone
At 17.6lb R84s are one of the lightest 16" OEM wheels.
You have to do the low hanging fruit first....and YOUR limiting factor is tires...you Basicly have 4 shopping cart wheels for rubber.....no matter how good the suspension, you cannot fix bad rubber with other bolt on items...
Once you get good rubber, then worn struts, and bushings might be next...so then you can decide if you want a set of coilovers...but a set that even matches them OEM will be $2000+ once you get them set up with cornor weighting....the lesser coilovers are for looks, and lowering....if that is what you want, fine, you can get $1000 eBay specials but the stock setup with koni yellows will still beat a middle/low range coilover...just not as sexylooking...
But right now, you biggest gain will be tires...and by far.
+1
For an OEM rim, they are light....r84, and x-lights...
Wanna be surprised...
Look up s-lights aka s-heavies, the most common 17 rim....
For an OEM rim, they are light....r84, and x-lights...
Wanna be surprised...
Look up s-lights aka s-heavies, the most common 17 rim....
3rd Gear
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Please reread the post...
You have to do the low hanging fruit first....and YOUR limiting factor is tires...you Basicly have 4 shopping cart wheels for rubber.....no matter how good the suspension, you cannot fix bad rubber with other bolt on items...
Once you get good rubber, then worn struts, and bushings might be next...so then you can decide if you want a set of coilovers...but a set that even matches them OEM will be $2000+ once you get them set up with cornor weighting....the lesser coilovers are for looks, and lowering....if that is what you want, fine, you can get $1000 eBay specials but the stock setup with koni yellows will still beat a middle/low range coilover...just not as sexylooking...
But right now, you biggest gain will be tires...and by far.
You have to do the low hanging fruit first....and YOUR limiting factor is tires...you Basicly have 4 shopping cart wheels for rubber.....no matter how good the suspension, you cannot fix bad rubber with other bolt on items...
Once you get good rubber, then worn struts, and bushings might be next...so then you can decide if you want a set of coilovers...but a set that even matches them OEM will be $2000+ once you get them set up with cornor weighting....the lesser coilovers are for looks, and lowering....if that is what you want, fine, you can get $1000 eBay specials but the stock setup with koni yellows will still beat a middle/low range coilover...just not as sexylooking...
But right now, you biggest gain will be tires...and by far.
Afterwards I asked if he would consider coils...
So....
Im not arguing the importance of tires
This is a thread how to.get more power to pavement
Correct?
Once tires are covered it isn't outlandish to suggest coils as they are just as important
No use having sticky tires on a wallowing FWD car
3rd Gear
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I don't condone ebay coils and have ran,been sponsored by, and endorse moton suspension as I've had a very good relationship with them for years now.
I didn't know his budget and wouldn't have suggested anything if a low budget was discussed
I never suggested Ebay coils nor did I bring it up after he said it wasn't in budget
I don't condone ebay coils and have ran,been sponsored by, and endorse moton suspension as I've had a very good relationship with them for years now.
I didn't know his budget and wouldn't have suggested anything if a low budget was discussed
I don't condone ebay coils and have ran,been sponsored by, and endorse moton suspension as I've had a very good relationship with them for years now.
I didn't know his budget and wouldn't have suggested anything if a low budget was discussed
,.........
As much as I'd like an LSD, my bank would rather toss a bear Trap into my face region....
As much as I'd like an LSD, my bank would rather toss a bear Trap into my face region....
Nothing beats a high quality coilover. But $$$$ has to be spent if you want to do more than simply use them to lower the car like most 2 way coilovers sold cheap does...heck, some rust out or fail from fatigue in a year or daily driving use....one pothole...boom...
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1st Gear
Joined: Oct 2015
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From: Jackson TN
Haha I take it all as a grain of salt, no need for bickering. I agree, tires first, then I need to address the struts. I forgot to mention its a 6spd not auto in the first post, sorry. As far as COIL overs, they would be nice to have but if I can get away with a good set of struts then that's the way I'm going. I'm not worried about the "tuner " look, I'm lookin for "go" so I can put that ginger bread man sticker on my window haha. I also misread the wheel specs, they are pretty light, not to mention they look fantastic on lil Earl.
Agreed. Tire grip should be matched to the suspension wheel rate. Given he thinks he's on stock suspension, my recommendation for something like the BFG g-force Comp-2 all-season is a rational match.
Checking the alignment is small change well spent if it's an unknown. It also usually helps to have a friend that actually knows how to drive test out the car, and/or also drive a known-good R53 as comparison.
Now if he's thinking the struts are bad, it's very affordable to find some low mile take-off OEM struts. The worst thing someone can do is start buying cheap aftermarket junk that makes the situation worse.
Checking the alignment is small change well spent if it's an unknown. It also usually helps to have a friend that actually knows how to drive test out the car, and/or also drive a known-good R53 as comparison.
Now if he's thinking the struts are bad, it's very affordable to find some low mile take-off OEM struts. The worst thing someone can do is start buying cheap aftermarket junk that makes the situation worse.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2015
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Even though I disagree with tires first when you have blown struts
Im happy you have gotten answers as to how you're going to apply more tire to the ground and look forward to some future updates!
Im happy you have gotten answers as to how you're going to apply more tire to the ground and look forward to some future updates!
Last edited by Spencer Roper; Oct 13, 2015 at 02:27 PM.
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1st Gear
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From: Jackson TN
I don't think the struts are "blown" or completely dead, I'd say more of " the life raft is quickly deflating". I'm want ng until spring for good tires, as its about to get cold and these good shape all weathers should make it through the winter. I was looking at the koni yellows earlier, has anyone else used them? If I end up grabbing some ( after the alignment is checked / corrected) should I spring for the whole set or can I get the backs first and then the fronts letter? Also what springs do they use? They don't seem to come with any??
3rd Gear
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You can install them how you like.
I agree with zippy that they are amazing and perfect for the budget minded.
If you want to do all four do it
If you only have cash for rear its alright as well
Ive done it both ways at various financial states
I agree with zippy that they are amazing and perfect for the budget minded.
If you want to do all four do it
If you only have cash for rear its alright as well
Ive done it both ways at various financial states
I think a good suspension setup strictly for reducing weight transfer to the rear tires will definitely help with traction to the front tires. But I see two problems.....
1. handling on the twisty roads is not going to be as good when you set your suspension up for strictly weight transfer for traction in a straight line (drag racing).
2.....for the money you will have to spend for a good set up coilovers.....you really aren't going to see a HUGE different in front wheel traction, especially if OP doesn't even have a LSD. A good set of sticky tires will improve handling/traction in every situation (straight line and twisty roads).
When it's all said and done......save $2000+ on suspension, and just learn how to control your left foot
1. handling on the twisty roads is not going to be as good when you set your suspension up for strictly weight transfer for traction in a straight line (drag racing).
2.....for the money you will have to spend for a good set up coilovers.....you really aren't going to see a HUGE different in front wheel traction, especially if OP doesn't even have a LSD. A good set of sticky tires will improve handling/traction in every situation (straight line and twisty roads).
When it's all said and done......save $2000+ on suspension, and just learn how to control your left foot
3rd Gear
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Your not compromising by using the setup I mentioned
Most track (including every form of twisty racing I've done and seen) use heavier weight springs in back
It's the most common practice in suspension setups for track.
You just need to dail them to suit your needs
Drag is more about damping than spring choice
You use drastically different damping setups to controll launching. At least that's when I've seen it done and done it myself...I'm sure there are other methods but this was the most prevalent
Granted you don't want crazy spring rates for drag but its still minimized by damping
Most track (including every form of twisty racing I've done and seen) use heavier weight springs in back
It's the most common practice in suspension setups for track.
You just need to dail them to suit your needs
Drag is more about damping than spring choice
You use drastically different damping setups to controll launching. At least that's when I've seen it done and done it myself...I'm sure there are other methods but this was the most prevalent
Granted you don't want crazy spring rates for drag but its still minimized by damping
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1st Gear
Joined: Oct 2015
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From: Jackson TN
Looks like koni yellows are the starting point then, ride the tires through the winter months and save up for uhp all weathers for the late spring. All winter I'll be researching spring and damping rates lol
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1st Gear
Joined: Oct 2015
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From: Jackson TN
Not on the front as well, salty? Or just start with the back? Also that's good to know, I saw that they were adjustable, but I never considered how hard it would be to change it once they were in the car