R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006) Cooper (R50) and Cooper S (R53) hatchback discussion.

R50/53 Out of ideas... So I joined! R53 - Power Loss...

Old Mar 4, 2014 | 02:54 AM
  #1  
Pommy's Avatar
Pommy
Thread Starter
|
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Out of ideas... So I joined! R53 - Power Loss...

"i'm giving you a free pass this time"

Seriously?
 

Last edited by Pommy; Mar 4, 2014 at 10:57 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 03:27 AM
  #2  
Mib4840's Avatar
Mib4840
6th Gear
10 Year Member
iTrader: (5)
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 8
From: Arizona
Does the yellow traction light flash when you are going around the corner? Could be a faulty sensor if it is doing it just because you floored the accelerator. It's thinking it should be losing traction when in fact it's not. Just a thought.
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 03:58 AM
  #3  
Pommy's Avatar
Pommy
Thread Starter
|
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
"i'm giving you a free pass this time"

Seriously?
 

Last edited by Pommy; Mar 4, 2014 at 10:57 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 04:35 AM
  #4  
miggynuez's Avatar
miggynuez
2nd Gear
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Could it be a bad fuel pump? It would probably help to check fuel pressure. I've read that hard starting problems could be due to something wrong with fuel delivery/pressure.

Also, although rare, the "flexi-hose" attached to the fuel pump becomes brittle and cracks, dumping fuel line pressure. Would probably help to check that first before swapping out a whole fuel pump.
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 04:59 AM
  #5  
Saltysalt's Avatar
Saltysalt
6th Gear
10 Year Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,257
Likes: 15
From: Dover, NH
the traction control will cut enough power it thinks to regain control, it has cut full power on me in snow causing me to stall. if the traction controll is off, it should not interfere at all

the traction control is based off wheel speed, and you very well could actually be activating it, with the combo of tires and wheels you have

my khumo AST's i could get TC light to flicker when i rolled on in 2nd gear, now with my winter tires or my summers i cannot anymore, if you floor it going around a corner, good chance youll set it off there again =)

but if under light/moderate accel and you still get it, you could have a faulty wheel sensor

our tsc systems look at wheel speed from front to back if im not mistaken to judge wether there is slippage
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 05:15 AM
  #6  
markjenn's Avatar
markjenn
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 779
Likes: 4
The traction control light being on during the problem seems like a smoking gun that the problem is in the traction control system. It thinks (perhaps erroneously) that the front wheels are losing traction and is cutting engine power. The idea that the system won't cut power completely is erroneous. It will cut power to whatever level is required to regain traction. (Drive your car in deep snow or glare ice sometime and see how much it cuts the power when you floor it.)

The other symptoms are consistent with a traction control issue - on cars without LSD's, traction problems are worst in lower gears and when turning. I wouldn't be screwing around with ignition, fuel pumps, etc. The warning light on the dash is telling you what the problem is.

What I'm unclear about is why you can't turn traction control off. I don't recall the exact procedure, but if you turn it off, you should get a steady warning light on the dash and then the system should let you spin the wheels to your heart's content without cutting power. Have you looked in the manual and followed the exact procedure to turn it off?

And are you sure you simply aren't spinning the wheels in corners? A well-running MCS will easily overcook its inside tire when turning in lower gears, especially if the tires are worn or there is any pavement contamination. Are you sure the traction control system isn't simply doing its job? Is the car new to you?

- Mark
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 05:25 AM
  #7  
minsanity's Avatar
minsanity
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,505
Likes: 25
Miggy might have pointed you the right way.... If so, hobo fix. DSC light turns on randomly when your having engine issues like misfires.
Google:
Morning Hard Starts & Now, 1-3k RPM Hesitation/Yoyo/Hiccup

And, check your crank pulley, too.
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 05:26 AM
  #8  
ZippyNH's Avatar
ZippyNH
6th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,605
Likes: 41
From: Southern NH
Just a dumb question...
What tires do you have....
The timing of it sounds like you are breaking traction, and the traction control is kicking in....
Some cheap rubber is pretty terrible.....
Beyond that any codes?
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 05:31 AM
  #9  
ZippyNH's Avatar
ZippyNH
6th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,605
Likes: 41
From: Southern NH
P.S
Dou you have DSC or ATC+T?
PRETTY BIG DIFFERRNCE....both were available for that year....
And both uses ACTUAL wheel speed data....not "full throttle means spinn...pull back the power"...lol..
How many rpms are you running when drops rpms or when it surges when at a steady speed?
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 05:38 AM
  #10  
kaneguy's Avatar
kaneguy
3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 227
Likes: 8
From: Conyers, Ga.
Check the MAP sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor). It monitors the intake vacuum/boost pressure and sends a signal to the ECU that adjusts the fuel delivery (simple explanation). A slow or incorrect response we cause a sudden lost of power during acceleration or change in throttle position. It is a fairly expensive sensor so it is advisable to test it with a swap out before buying on.... Good luck
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 05:38 AM
  #11  
minsanity's Avatar
minsanity
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,505
Likes: 25
My fuel pressure issues from the split hose rarely popped the CEL. Maybe once or twice a random misfire code as the engine was running very lean. Fuel pump to filter flexi hose was so brittle it tore. A friend's 03 found exactly the same issue. Try checking fuel pressure or go straight to removing your fuel pump for hose inspection.

Other culprits would be the coolant temp sensor beside the thermostat & the fuel rail pulse/pressure regulator. I swapped mine in the process of elimination, but they weren't it.
 

Last edited by minsanity; Mar 4, 2014 at 05:45 AM.
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 05:50 AM
  #12  
ZippyNH's Avatar
ZippyNH
6th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,605
Likes: 41
From: Southern NH
Originally Posted by Pommy
Thanks Mib

Light comes on in a straight line, or corner.

My understanding of the traction control WAS that it doesn't cut power to the engine completely, like I get.

I say WAS, because I just Googled it and found...

"In vehicles that use drive by wire throttle, the TCS can also close the throttle to reduce engine power."

It's worth investigating, but the funny thing is, the traction control is switched off???

Should the light still be coming on at all?

Ideas how to eliminate this theory?

I appreciate the input very much
Traction control is always on....so no light...
When you turn it off....the light will be on STEADY to let you know it is off.....
When it is acting...it will flash....
With factory programing....the power is cut about 60-80%....matches what you say...then gives it back..
Imo look at your tires....
Summer tires on a cooler day? A bit of sand ? Most mini's CAN break traction in first gear...especially in a turn or if the temp is cool...or maybe a bit of sand/grit on the road....
Cheap rubber only makes it worse.
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 06:01 AM
  #13  
minsanity's Avatar
minsanity
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,505
Likes: 25
Originally Posted by Pommy
Few things that might be relevant...
it used to start first turn of the key, but now, it's more like three turns.
When it goes up a hill, it "yo yo's" or lunges rhythmically? Worse with aircon switched on. (Makes me think fuel starvation?)
Checking tires as Zippy suggested is simple & easy, but they would most likely have nothing to do w/ hard-starting & yoyo. These point to fuel distribution & sensor issues. These symptoms normally get worse.
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 08:55 AM
  #14  
robthemininut's Avatar
robthemininut
1st Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Yoyo was a common problem for 2003 R53's. There is a mod, I believe it is called VBS or some such. I'm sure you can find it in these forums from long ago. Basically it re-routes the vacumn source the throttle body mechanism to a more reliable source. Smooths things out.

Your issue really sounds like an issue with either traction control or traction. Sort that first.

Finally, on the hard start, try running a tank full of regular gas through it. Will reset the ECU and might help. This may be related to the ethanol ratios changes in gas.
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 12:05 PM
  #15  
Pommy's Avatar
Pommy
Thread Starter
|
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
"i'm giving you a free pass this time"

Seriously?
 

Last edited by Pommy; Mar 4, 2014 at 10:58 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 12:11 PM
  #16  
markjenn's Avatar
markjenn
5th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 779
Likes: 4
I'm sorry to be blunt but RTFM about how the traction control works. Then turn if off, and report back.

- Mark
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 12:46 PM
  #17  
Pommy's Avatar
Pommy
Thread Starter
|
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
"i'm giving you a free pass this time"

Seriously?
 

Last edited by Pommy; Mar 4, 2014 at 10:58 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 02:52 PM
  #18  
minsanity's Avatar
minsanity
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,505
Likes: 25
There's a shorter flexi hose on the pump side. It's routed U-shape. That's where mine split. Fuel was simply pumped back into the tank. That was the reason why I hear the pump working but pressure was just at 20+psi instead of 50+. You've done the filter, this will be easy for you.
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 03:17 PM
  #19  
Pommy's Avatar
Pommy
Thread Starter
|
Neutral
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
"i'm giving you a free pass this time"

Seriously?
 

Last edited by Pommy; Mar 4, 2014 at 10:58 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 03:57 PM
  #20  
minsanity's Avatar
minsanity
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,505
Likes: 25
Let's not hope you're having multiple issues. Do the investigation by elimination. If flexi-hose is leak-free, your pump might not be giving you enough pressure anymore. Hence, the yoyo. A new VDO pump will set you back around $200.
Running lean & having erratic low fuel pressure/starvation can somehow cause the DSC light to intermittently & randomly come on that the switch couldn't reverse unless you turn your engine off & on again.
MINI doesn't sell the hose separately, so many just get a new pump assembly to solve the issue. Get a Gates 30R10 SUBMERSIBLE fuel hose ready. Non-submersible ones won't do.
Hope you can sort this out.
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 03:57 PM
  #21  
ACallahan's Avatar
ACallahan
5th Gear
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,046
Likes: 4
From: Florida
I was having a similar issue awhile back, nothing seemed to work. On a whim I took fuel injectors out and sent them off for a rebuild, a lot of folks don't realize each injector has a filter in it that can get plugged up. Anyway, problem fixed. I sent them to this guy who does a before and after flow sheet that he sends back with your injectors. http://www.mrinjector.us/
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 04:02 PM
  #22  
minsanity's Avatar
minsanity
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,505
Likes: 25
Mine was having very low pressure of 20psi, so I had to check the pump. Swapped in new injector O-rings, new fuel pressure regulator & vacuum hose while the IC was off.
Off topic: Pommy, are you on bags?
 

Last edited by minsanity; Mar 4, 2014 at 04:11 PM.
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 04:19 PM
  #23  
ZippyNH's Avatar
ZippyNH
6th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,605
Likes: 41
From: Southern NH
Pulsing and hard start should be a seperate issue....
USUSLLY a DSC issue would be expected to get worse as you accelerate...
But let's get more info..
When you are feeling this "pulsation" how many rpms are you running?
Checking the hoses in the fuel tank seems to be a prudent ...
But one thing....
All you symptoms are what (except the 3rd start thing) is consistent with the DSC pulling back power when it senses the tires breaking free...very common when somebody uses summer tires in cool weather...that is WHY I am so curious of the tires you are using....you may have wasted a bunch of $$ cause you 1-did not read the owners manual and 2- did not know that you may have the wrong tires on YOUR car....
The 3 start thing was pretty common....and has been attritubited to many different things....
Many folks see it seasonally when fuel changes to/from winter blend ....if the car is not a daily driver..carcmight not have adjusted to winter gas....
To help rule out a "drippy" injector...leading to loss of "prime" or fuel pressure while sitting...try turning your key to "ON" for 10 seconds or so THEN start your car....
One tip....folks on this board are pretty tight...we help each other out...and when you single out one person who has a dry sense of humor to insult....you are lucky folks are still choosing to use THEIR FREE TIME to give you advise....
Many folks are likely to just shut down....and not say a word when you post. As a newbie, i'm giving you a free pass this time, but I take it personally still. Please do not be to thin skinned....and remember.....you could get bad advise from the friend of the person you insult....
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 04:30 PM
  #24  
ZippyNH's Avatar
ZippyNH
6th Gear
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,605
Likes: 41
From: Southern NH
P.S.
Since you are on airbags (pretty sure) I Have one more thought....
You might have more weight on one bag then another...so maybe a inflation issue..one being more inflated....resulting in more/less traction on one side...making the DSC kick in when one wheel is found to be slipping....a LSD would be the longterm fix...but check you suspension gusges and levelers....one might be out of wack.
 
Reply
Old Mar 4, 2014 | 04:42 PM
  #25  
minsanity's Avatar
minsanity
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,505
Likes: 25
Great advices on both technical & ethical, Zip!
Again, Pommy, approach issues by elimination.
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:50 AM.