Alright. Finally decided that an 05 is in my future... just how far in the future.

Time to put on my "I'm A Hypocrate" hat. I've always said that an auto tranny never had any place in a sports car. And I am sticking by it... kind of.

I'm really intrigued by the Steptronic option for the January build 05's. Seems like a really cool option. Let me divulge. I recently moved to a high traffic congestion area, which can be kind of crappy to down-right miserable from day-to-day, so the thought of an automatic is very slightly appealing, for convenience purposes.

The thought of being able to "shift" using my fingertips just sounds like a cool idea. Growing up on car racing games (circa the 80s Nintendo games) up through a current infatuation with Gran Tarismo and the likes, being able to drive a car using controller-style shifting would be truly unique and fun, IMHO.

My question is, how fun? Would the tranny be so miserably spongy that it would be nearly impossible to autoX?

Really wish I could test-drive one of these bad boys. Anybody have any inclincation to what the pricing on the option would be?

 

>>Really wish I could test-drive one of these bad boys. Anybody have any inclincation to what the pricing on the option would be?
>>

I'd recommend going to your closest BMW dealer and taking a 325i out for a test drive. I'd expect the two transmissions will be similar. The US spec 325i doesn't have steering wheel mounted paddles but you can use the shift **** with the same effect.

 

MINI has been very tight lipped about the automatic transmission type that will be used in the '05 MCS as of January production. My contacts keep telling me it will be a regular 5 or 6 speed slushbox with Tiptronic steering paddle shift controls. It is likely also the tranny will be assembled by ZF, the current manufacturer of the wonderful CVT box in the Cooper (Which I also happen to own).

Originally MINi went with a CVT for the Cooper citing less weight, better driveability and better fuel economy. Although the CVT is avery capable tranny it seems to me that MINI has decided to go with a regular slushbox for the MCS perhaps amind fears of reduced reliability at higher HP and torque numbers.


Honestly, automatic slushboxes coupled with small displacement engines have never delivered much performance in terms of acceleration when compared to a manual stick shift.


I'll reserve judgement on the '05 MCS automatic until I get to drive one hopefully around December-February time period.

I really enjoy my 6-speed Getrag in the MCS and have grown used to it in traffic but yes an automatic in bad traffic conditions will always be a more relaxed drive.


Keep in mind though, that if you want LSD in your '05 MCS you can only get it on the 6-speed manual model, not the automatic.


The CVT tranny option in the current Cooper retails for $1,300, so I suspect the new MCS automatic slushbox will be priced around that ballpark.


BTW, great decision you have made to stick with MINI and hope that your new car will be as reliable as mine has been so far.

 

>>
>>>>Really wish I could test-drive one of these bad boys. Anybody have any inclincation to what the pricing on the option would be?
>>>>
>>
>>I'd recommend going to your closest BMW dealer and taking a 325i out for a test drive. I'd expect the two transmissions will be similar. The US spec 325i doesn't have steering wheel mounted paddles but you can use the shift **** with the same effect.


I am not sure if this is still the case, but General Motors supplied BMW with automatic transmissions for a number of years for the 3 and 5 series among others. ZF is the other big slushbox supplier to BMW.

 

Thanks guys. Helpful info. Next time I'm at the dealer (which they the things are going could be in 20 minutes) I'll have to test the 325i Bimmer.

The LSD would definitely be nice, but I think for convenience purposes I would take the Steptronic over it... pending driveability, of course.

 

>>Thanks guys. Helpful info. Next time I'm at the dealer (which they the things are going could be in 20 minutes) I'll have to test the 325i Bimmer.
>>
>>The LSD would definitely be nice, but I think for convenience purposes I would take the Steptronic over it... pending driveability, of course.


The 325i automatic drives very nice. Expect very crisp shifts and fast downshifts on command. very smooth tranny too. I think the last one I drove (a 2003) had a GM automatic in it.

 

I had a 325I as a loner the last time my MINI was in for service and I loved the autotran with the shift ability. I'm probably going to push my Cabrio order back enough to get the steptronic S. I to live in a very congested drive area and my knee is starting to complain about all the shifting for the last six years (Miata 4 yrs, MINI 2 yrs).

 

>My question is, how fun? Would the tranny be so miserably spongy that it would be nearly impossible to autoX?

I use to own a 98 prelude with SAT (seq. AT) and it was great while living out
in LA where there's tons of congestion on the 405/101/110, plus lots of canyon
roads to play. But after moving back to Chicago, I got a little bord of the AT
and ever since only bought MT for my fun cars. There's not enough curvy
roads here. I wanted to input more to make the car move.

What I noticed on a lot of these newer SAT's are that they are so computer
controlled that you can't even make the car shift into 1st with the lever.
I think the Prelude's SAT was one of the only ones that would let you shift
into 1st and would not automatically shiftup at redline...which means, you
have almost total control over the gear selection.

I test drove several other SAT cars lately and I could not even consider the
manual mode really being "manual." They really took out a lot of the fun
factor. probably for durability and convenience issues for the drivers
who's never driven a MT before in their life.

If I was to get a AT as a fun car, it'll have to be a manual based SMG type.
The purpose would be to maximize consistency on the roadcouse.

 

God gave me a left leg to work the clutch. I vote Getrag.

 

So what I'm hearing is that no one else finally got used to shifting with "L2 and R2," huh? I actually enjoy it now...

Wish they made a manual with paddle shifting... now that'd be kool...

 

Our E46 325i has the slushbox with pseudo-manual capability. I just leave it in D whenever I drive it, the manual control is far too slow to be at all sporting. If you plan on encountering bumper to bumper traffic every day, get the auto. Otherwise, get the manual.

 

Steptronic ...

In addition to the MCS, I also drive a '00 328i with a Steptronic transmission. This was a concession to a 4 driver family.

First of all, I prefer a manual; no ifs, ands, or buts. However, the Step does make owning an automatic a little more sporty.

First, the Step has two modes: regular shift points (optimized to MPG, me thinks) and "sport" shift points. I believe the latter are adaptive so it does (to a degree) learn in the sport mode. I usually leave it in the sport mode unless I am concerned about MPG. And yes, in auto and sport mode it starts out in second gear unless I remember to manually shift it to first.

Second, you can upshift and downshift manually. This is controlled by computer, however, so you can't get into "redline" trouble. Thus, it will not downshift if the lower gear will result in near-redline conditions. It will also not allow you to hit the redline while staying in a gear. My E46 automatically upshifts about 500-750 rpms before redline (probably just past peak HP). Remember the Steptronic transmission is pretty dumb; it is NOT the intelligent SMG found on the M3 and the Z4 3.0 SMG models.

Overall, living with Steptronic has made owning an automatic almost acceptable. It is VERY convenient for urban driving. What I DO NOT like is the performance hit I take with its weight and with the drivetrain torque/HP loss.

I can only hope that MINI will have a new generation of Steptronic fitted to their cars. Preferably engineered to weigh less and to impart minimal performance loss.

My tuppence,

Theo

 

:evil:

_________________
~I hit her with the booyaka~

 

Looks like your decision has been made for you.

 

>>Looks like your decision has been made for you. :smile:

 

ah hell, who am I kidding. I'll probably still end up going with the Getrag. Too much fun not to.

 

>>>>Thanks guys. Helpful info. Next time I'm at the dealer (which they the things are going could be in 20 minutes) I'll have to test the 325i Bimmer.
>>>>
>>>>The LSD would definitely be nice, but I think for convenience purposes I would take the Steptronic over it... pending driveability, of course.
>>
>>
>>The 325i automatic drives very nice. Expect very crisp shifts and fast downshifts on command. very smooth tranny too. I think the last one I drove (a 2003) had a GM automatic in it.

I don't believe the current crop of 3 series uses the GM tranny but a ZF. The E36 did for it's 4 speed auto however.

 

>>ah hell, who am I kidding. I'll probably still end up going with the Getrag. Too much fun not to.

DING DING DING...gotta get the Getrag. It's one of my favorite things about the car, and I live in the heart of a major city.

 

>>>>>>Thanks guys. Helpful info. Next time I'm at the dealer (which they the things are going could be in 20 minutes) I'll have to test the 325i Bimmer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The LSD would definitely be nice, but I think for convenience purposes I would take the Steptronic over it... pending driveability, of course.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The 325i automatic drives very nice. Expect very crisp shifts and fast downshifts on command. very smooth tranny too. I think the last one I drove (a 2003) had a GM automatic in it.
>>
>>I don't believe the current crop of 3 series uses the GM tranny but a ZF. The E36 did for it's 4 speed auto however.

Gabe, your site is down....

 

>>>>>>>>Thanks guys. Helpful info. Next time I'm at the dealer (which they the things are going could be in 20 minutes) I'll have to test the 325i Bimmer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The LSD would definitely be nice, but I think for convenience purposes I would take the Steptronic over it... pending driveability, of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The 325i automatic drives very nice. Expect very crisp shifts and fast downshifts on command. very smooth tranny too. I think the last one I drove (a 2003) had a GM automatic in it.
>>>>
>>>>I don't believe the current crop of 3 series uses the GM tranny but a ZF. The E36 did for it's 4 speed auto however.
>>
>>Gabe, your site is down....

tell me about it. some major issues with our host today...

 

I've driven my buddy's E46 Dinan3 (a 330i with all the Dinan parts all over the thing) with the Step, and I gotta admit that it's pretty nice. Takes a bit of getting used to, but it's perty sweet.

The one BIG complaint is that you can't downshift into 1st gear unless you're going below 20 mph even with the Dinan tranny software - which makes a major difference while autocrossing. There are usually some corners where it would be nice to exit in 1st instead of 2nd, but you're going over 20 mph so you're pretty much screwed in that case... shrug.

However, if you drive an E46 with the SMG you'll see that a slushbox can be truly outstanding. It makes the Step seem sick in comparison, IMHO. I love the SMG tranny, but it also takes some getting used to...

I dunno what the MINI's new option will hold

 

>>However, if you drive an E46 with the SMG you'll see that a slushbox can be truly outstanding. It makes the Step seem sick in comparison, IMHO. I love the SMG tranny, but it also takes some getting used to...
>>
>>I dunno what the MINI's new option will hold

Except the SMG isn't a "slushbox". That term is usually used to refer to the torque converter and it's use of fluid pressure (slush) to turn opposing gears instead of a direct mechanical connection.

The SMG is a true "manual" transmission in that it has a clutch, and gears that directly engage each other.... the whole thing is just robotically controlled.

 

>>The SMG is a true "manual" transmission in that it has a clutch, and gears that directly engage each other.... the whole thing is just robotically controlled.

...and it controls the throttle to "match revs" when requesting a downshift! Amazing...thank you F1!

Theo

 

Also keep in mind that the SMG on the E46 M3 is a different beast than any of them....

 

slushboxes are evil :evil:

There should be a HUGE monthly tax on all those with automatic tranny's. CVT's and SMG's, we'll leave you guys alone, as you at least have cool techno-features. Call me an idealist, but if you get a Cooper S, you should be required by LAW to have a manual transmision.

That's all, thanks for playing
Ryan