A MA advised me that if you have DRL's activated, your fogs cannot be operated independent of your normal headlights. IOW, you must have your headlights be turned on in order for the fogs to be turned on, which of course, defeats the purpose. So, needless to say my MINI will not have DRL activated for the time being. Has anyone heard this before? I was kind of anticipating having them activated.... :sad:

The fog lights will not operate with the high beam on. The DRLs are the high beam at a lower power. If you need you fog lights, you need to turn on your parking lights or low beam.

http://members.roadfly.org/skaboo/MINISIG.jpg

Yes, that's how it is. The DRL's are the high beams at low power. And you can't (and shouldn't) use foglights with high beams.

I figure the DRL's help me daily. I rarely have use for the fogs, but atleast I have that toggle switch. :smile:

Sorry, skaboo. I type waaaaaaaay too slowly.

Oh, so if you turn your parking lights on, the DRL's turn off, and then you can turn on the fogs. If so, I'll reconsider the DRL's. How bright are these things anyway? Does someone have a pic of DRL's on during the day? Are they as bright as the fogs only aimed much higher? What wattage are they? Thanks.....

Ok, after reading post back in May, it sounds as if fogs can only be operated with the lo-beams on, so that would contradict the above post. So, can anyone verify if MINI changed this? That is, if you have DRL activated, can you turn fogs on with JUST the parking lights (position 1)?

The answer is no. I have a July '03 build MC w/ fogs and the fogs only work when the headlights are on. :smile:

Back in a minute!!

My fog lights work without having to turn on my headlights. Turn on Parking lights, switch foglights on, drive away. Turn on brights (take a few XRays), and foglights turn off.

I have Xenons, but did not have DRL's programmed....

DRL's are on all the time, with two exceptions. Your head lights are on, or your E-brake is on. Turning on the parking lights does not turn off the DRL's.

As stated before, DRL's are part of the highbeam circuit. So, if the highbeam circuit is active the fog lights don't work.

If it is really foggy where you live, don't get DRL's.

I also have an '03 MCS with DRL's programmed. Fog lights only work with low beams on, that's it. DRL's are fairly bright, but not nearly as bright as the Xenon low beams. That said, sometimes at night I have forgotten to turn on the lights b/c the DRL's! Remember, once you have them programmed on, they cannot turn them off.

That said, I like them. They are safer, and with all the big SUV's in Colorado I want to be seen! And check with your insurance company. I have heard that some companies give a discount similar to having airbags, ABS, etc.

One question though: why would you want to drive with fog lights on but low beams off? I grew up in the midwest, so have experience with thick fog, and was never able to do that with any of the cars I've driven with foglights (Saab, VW, Fiat).

What is the exact purpose of DRLs? I had them on my 2000 GTI, and I disliked them so much that I bought a European light switch and eliminated them. I'm glad that my MINI's were not programmed to function. When its rainy or foggy, I turn on my low beams or fog lights. But on a sunny day, at high noon, why have DRLs?

>>What is the exact purpose of DRLs? I had them on my 2000 GTI, and I disliked them so much that I bought a European light switch and eliminated them. I'm glad that my MINI's were not programmed to function. When its rainy or foggy, I turn on my low beams or fog lights. But on a sunny day, at high noon, why have DRLs?

Conspicuity. The same reason motorcycles are required by Federal law to have their headlights on: To be noticed by oncoming traffic. Of course, now that more and more cars are using DRLs the motorcycles are losing the added conspicuity when there are masses of cagers with their headlights lit up.

Skaboo, I too am a little puzzled by your "defeats the purpose" logic... would you explain for us? please...

Nuvolari - you're close, but let me comment on that.

YES, the basic idea behind DRLs is conspicuity, but the effectiveness is debated, which is why the NHTSA has not required them in this country. Personally, I just turn my lights on in conditions where having my lights on would help. There is another thread that debates the advantages/disadvantages (I'm a vocal opposer) to them (the thread also gives a link that lists advantages and disadvantages). It's all good info.

Now, as for Motorcycles, the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) teaches that one of the reasons headlights ON were mandated for ALL motorcycles in the early 80s is the extreme size difference between MOST motorcycles and most cars/trucks (this logic COULD potentially apply to a Mini as they are pretty small).

It is believed that as drivers make conditioned responses to what they see on the road, when they see a motorcycle with the light turned off, they don't always realize what it is, and because of the small size, their brain assumes it is a car that is farther away and traveling slower than the motorcycle actually is, so the driver pulls out dangerously close to the motorcycle (often causing an accident).

With this said, I believe that having the headlight ON for a motorcycle does have a positive affect on motorcycle safety, though I've often installed the European light switch, NOT so that I could RIDE with the light off, but so that I could flash it, or shut it off during cold starts on a weak battery, etc.

Now, here's where I have some trouble with your logic. If the result of the light ON all the time is to trick peoples brains into seeing the bikes as cars, or to make them seem closer than they'd otherwise appear, the population of our roadways with DRL equipped cars will not have a negative affect on the safety of motorcycles.

You see, as people get more and more used to seeing vehicles with DRLs, their brains should assume it is another car, one that is large enough to hurt them too and make them LESS likely to pull out in front of the bike.

So I don't think we are worse off as motorcyclists because of the popularity of DRLs.

RIDE or MOTOR SAFE ALL!

Kev :wink:

_________________
She let's me drive her MCS (which is good, cause I gave it to her as a wedding present)!!!

Our Baby? - she's an 03 Elect Blue (white roof/wheels) MCS, w/ all the toys (premium, cold, h/k, Nav, xenon, fogs etc) !

KevM said, in part:

>>Now, here's where I have some trouble with your logic. If the result of the light ON all the time is to trick peoples brains into seeing the bikes as cars, or to make them seem closer than they'd otherwise appear, the population of our roadways with DRL equipped cars will not have a negative affect on the safety of motorcycles.
>>
>>You see, as people get more and more used to seeing vehicles with DRLs, their brains should assume it is another car, one that is large enough to hurt them too and make them LESS likely to pull out in front of the bike.
>>
>>So I don't think we are worse off as motorcyclists because of the popularity of DRLs.

Excellent point, KevM, I had not thought of it that way. Thanks.

>>I also have an '03 MCS with DRL's programmed. Fog lights only work with low beams on, that's it. DRL's are fairly bright, but not nearly as bright as the Xenon low beams. That said, sometimes at night I have forgotten to turn on the lights b/c the DRL's! Remember, once you have them programmed on, they cannot turn them off.
>>
>>That said, I like them. They are safer, and with all the big SUV's in Colorado I want to be seen! >>>

Ahhhh, my friend, you see, you've stumbled upon one of my objections as to how DRLs have been implemented. What do you think is more dangerous, driving around with out your headlights on in proper lighting conditions OR pulling onto a lit roadway at night and driving, maybe a mile, maybe 2 or more before you realize that your headlights are not on because the DRLs are so bright and you didn't notice the interior lights weren't on yet???? :eek:

I've done it too, in press vehicles, in our old VW ... and it annoys me. The DRLs make it MORE likely for that to occur.

So again, my answer is, I'll just turn my headlights on when I need them...

>>
>>Excellent point, KevM, I had not thought of it that way. Thanks.
>>


:grin: :grin: :grin: WOW, I got one right... :wink:

RIDE SAFE(ly),

Kev

I wasn't debating the merits of the DRL's, just trying to help the physical function. I do not hav DRL's activated and can turn on my fog lights with or with out the low beam on. I like it that way for many of the reasons you have pointed out:)

I have the DRLs programmed and have never forgotten to turn my lowbeams on. The interior lights, dash controls are not lit up and that's my big clue to turn on my lights.

Also, since the DRLs are activated when the parking brake is lowered all the way down, couldn't the brake be loosened so that by pulling up on the brake one click, you de-activate the DRLs if needed and at the same time the brake is not really engaged?

what is the major difference between low beam and DRL?
why can i just turn my low beam on?
At least i do have a choice to turn off the lights!