I just read on bridger Mini site that the new French engines are being readied for the 2006 models. Is this an admission by Mini that the curent engines are substandard and unfixable. I read so much about stumble, leakage, and yo-yos that I'm now wondering if I shouldn't cancel my order and wait for new developments. Combining this with coolant leaks, windshield cracking, and vaious small complaints, it seems the Mini was produced without a serious quality control program in place.

I know some of you are saying that there is never a perfect car and go ahead and buy and enjoy it now. I very sympathetic to those arguments, but it really seems something is happening that goes beyond the normal product improvement cycle. This is a wholesale change to the drive train. I worry now that what some are saying is true. the Mini was rushed to market with sub-standard components to take advantage of the demand. What is coming up may be the second generation "real" Mini.

Please don't flame me with the traitor label. This is a real concern and I'd like to have some feedback. Am I being too wuss-like or not?

 

Until I am proven wrong, I will stand by my belief that the #1 reason MINI is wanting to change the engine in the MINI is because it's supplied by Daimler-Chrysler. Something in the BMW family powered by an engine from the Mercedes family? Can't happen. Any other justification isn't necessarily wrong, I just think it's a political thing first. When the deal was made to get this engine, Daimler-Benz wasn't in the picture. They are now, so thus the desire to change.

 

Like you said in your post. Its a car and nobody can make the perfcet car. Mine is as close to perfect as can be. Knock on Wood. (--knocking on own head--) I have alot of friends that have MINIs with lots of miles and very few miles. I am a member of all the South Florida Clubs and have not met one member that dislikes his MINI because of problems. SO you do what ever you want but I know I would not let some stupid writter that maybe drove the car for a week and asked a few owners a couple of questions and then became knowledgable on the MINI. If I could do anything over it would have been to order mine sooner and hope to beat the crowds to the dealership. Good luck. Get the MINI and have fun like the rest of us are. In 2006 get the one with the different engine if its an issue. Thats what a warrenty is for.

 

You should be concerned. Many on this board are real enthusiasts so you will probably get a somewhat biased view of the MINI with not all the warts.

The MINI for me is a real frustration. The styling and handing is the attraction for me and why I have lived with it for over a year and 23K miles. It is just a terrifically fun car to drive, especially around town as an everyday driver, great in traffic, great to park, great to take out on the twisties in the country.

But I would disagree with many here who say, you shouldn't expect great build quality in a $17K to $20K car. I spent closer to $24K with all the options. I have 2 sons, one has a 2001 Jetta 1.8 Turbo, the other a 2003 Mitsu Lancer, both more solid and better quality build. Hondas under $20K are obviously very well built, so I don't buy the argument that you should not expect as much from a car $20K or under. I have had lots of rattles, many fixed and a couple not. I hear from posters, just turn up the radio, but one shouldn't have to just turn up the radio. My MCS was virtually rattle free till 10K miles. It has gotten progressively worse as I have moved over 20K miles, especially the dash and door rattles. The rear hatch and sunroof rattles were easily fixed, but unfortunately not the door and dash as they come and go.

Regards to the Chyrsler engine, I do think that was rushed to market for BMW, it was already easily available as it is in cruisers and neons in Europe, also cheaper for BMW than developing from scratch. My take is BMW would replace it even sooner than 2006 if not for the contract with Damler/Chrysler. The supercharger appears to be a total afterthought to get more hp and another market for the S as they still have not solved the stumble. I would bet the new French S engine will have a Turbo instead. I test drove the Works again at the dealership a few weeks ago while picking up my MCS for service and it had the stumble which the salesman in the car with me acknowleged. He did say there was a fix coming in December, but I've been told that for 10 months now. It also had a very bad dash rattle which I can't believe they haven't fixed.(maybe they can't)

I do think the 2006 MINI will be a totally different and better car...wish it was here for 2004. Would I buy another MINI now based on my experience....hmmmmm, have to think about it as it really is a fun car, just frustrating because of what it could and should be....I think I would look for a used one with 5K to 10K miles and drive it for a day, see if it was rattle free, etc. I'm starting to see more and more used ones in the paper.....

All that said, I can't wait to see and drive the 2006, only 3 years away. When I first heard about the MINI and put my name on the list it was 2 years before it actually went on sale here in the states, so not that long a wait :smile:

Maybe you will get a total rattle free MINI and the stumble will be fixed by the time you get delivery. I have been told such MINI's exist :smile:

Best of luck !

 

Remember that if you are reading only the problems and failures posts you are getting only half the story. Ask each one of those people who had these problems if they had other problems... probably not. Ask them if they would dump their Mini because of the problems... probably not.

Buy it... drive it... see if you have problems. Also bear in mind that the first year's run will have more problems than any successive year. That's why I waited one year to order mine... One terribly long year... then 6 terrifyingly long weeks for it to arrive. Now, I am as happy as a Hindu cow.

Motor On!!!!

 

BTW here's the original story from my site: New MINI Engine Caught Testing

>>I just read on bridger Mini site that the new French engines are being readied for the 2006 models. Is this an admission by Mini that the current engines are substandard and unfixable. I read so much about stumble, leakage, and yo-yos that I'm now wondering if I shouldn't cancel my order and wait for new developments. Combining this with coolant leaks, windshield cracking, and various small complaints, it seems the Mini was produced without a serious quality control program in place.

I would not cancel my order to wait for this new engine. For one the new engine will most likely be released as an '07 model - so you'd have almost four years of not having a MINI. Secondly the issues with the current engine are software related - read fixable. MINI is working on a software fix to come out later this year to eliminate the stumble that many MCS drivers have experienced.

>>
>>I know some of you are saying that there is never a perfect car and go ahead and buy and enjoy it now. I very sympathetic to those arguments, but it really seems something is happening that goes beyond the normal product improvement cycle. This is a wholesale change to the drive train. I worry now that what some are saying is true. the Mini was rushed to market with sub-standard components to take advantage of the demand. What is coming up may be the second generation "real" Mini.

The MINI was decidedly not rushed to market. It was developed from early 1995 to late 2000 and involved some of Rover and BMW's best engineers. I'd strongly recommend reading Graham Robson's "New MINI" for much more information on the development process.

There are several reasons BMW is keen to get a new engine into the MINI. 1st the current engine was a joint venture with Chrysler. However now that it's Daimler Chrysler BMW is keen to get out of the relationship. 2nd one of BMW trademarks in engine technology is valvetronic (infinitely variable valve timing) - something that the current engine does not have and probably will never have due to it's design. So instead of dealing with these issues head on BMW decided to go another route and partner with PSA to produce a new line of thoroughly modern small hhour cylinder engines.

You have to understand that there will never be a perfect MINI. Soon we'll start hearing about other details of the 2nd generation of new MINIs coming out in 2007/8. I'm sure many people will be unhappy with the car growing in size. I'm sure others will be excited to hear about the car having an even stiffer structure and higher quality interior. But the fact of the matter remains there will always be a better MINI a couple years away.

 

Thanks for the great feedback. Exactly what I expected from the people who use this board. I'm not sure what I will do yet, I really want a Mini, but I could wait, there's no big hurry. On the other hand I remeber the fun I had during the test drive and can imagine the current model would be so much fun to drive...

Oh well, decisions, decisions,. any other inputs?

 

>>
>>Regards to the Chyrsler engine, I do think that was rushed to market for BMW, it was already easily available as it is in cruisers and neons in Europe, also cheaper for BMW than developing from scratch. My take is BMW would replace it even sooner than 2006 if not for the contract with Damler/Chrysler. The supercharger appears to be a total afterthought to get more hp and another market for the S as they still have not solved the stumble. I would bet the new French S engine will have a Turbo instead. I test drove the Works again at the dealership a few weeks ago while picking up my MCS for service and it had the stumble which the salesman in the car with me acknowleged. He did say there was a fix coming in December, .,.........
>>
>>


The motor was a Joint Venture developed for all of those mentioned - it was not already in existance ...
... and most of the problems mentioned with the performance are Not engine problems, but Engine Management problems - it's all Software, people!

 

Miniblues,
I am sorry to hear you have rattles. Take it back to the dealer and insist they fix it. I have a 2003 Jetta as well and I am having horibble problems with the tranny. I am willing to look past some rattles (none yet - knock on wood) and you can't argue with Mini/BMW's free maintenance. That alone makes a big difference to me. I will never buy another VW when I manage to lose this lemon. My Mini will stay with me until the bitter end.

 

Before ordering my MCS I rented one from Beverly Hills Budget (neither in Beverly Hills nor a budget, but that's another issue). It was a 2002 with 8500 miles on it. The car didn't rattle, didn't exhibit any yo-yo, stumble, windshield wasn't cracked. The only quality issue was the sunroof which rattled slightly when going over rough pavement. And this was a rental, so it probably was broken in by somebody taking it to redlline with only 10 miles on the odometer. Of course that doesn't guarantee that my '04 will not have these issues. However, BMW is building the MINI better with each production cycle. According to one poster either here or on MINI2, MINI discovered the cause of the cracked windshileds - flexing of the "A" pillars. Apparently the 2004 models now have reinforced A pillars to eliminate the problem. Will it? we'll have to see, won't we. But, to wait until MD 2006 for a Peugot-BMW engine because of concerns about the current Pentagon engine doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. After all, the current engine is used in non USA Neons, and is relatively trouble free. Who knows what problems might exist on a brand new engine. It's kiind of like buying a computer. If you wait for the perfect package, you'll still be using your 40 year old Underwood typewriter.

 

The motor was a Joint Venture developed for all of those mentioned - it was not already in existance ...
... and most of the problems mentioned with the performance are Not engine problems, but Engine Management problems - it's all Software, people!
___________________

Not disputing that, whether BMW wanted the Chrysler engine or not was irrelevant, the enginne was going forward regardless because of the neons and cruisers. IMO BMW piggybacked in order to save money since you are talking about a $17K car and the clock was also ticking......

also wouldn't dispute that the stumble is software related, but still not fixed a year and half later....even Billy Gates gets software fixed faster :smile:

 

Wait, wait, you don't want to buy the 2006 MINI because it would be the first year for the new FRENCH engine. Bound to be some problems. I would wait until at least 2008 to make sure ALL THE BUGS are worked out.

Hey that's only a four year wait for the perfect MINI.

Excuse me while I go out and enjoy my 03 MCS!!!!!!!

 

t140v,

The cause of the problem is not the issue. It's the fact that its still there and nothing has been done about it. One of the Mini dealers told me to expect some 'turbo lag" on the test drive. When the car stumbled repeatedly in the first intersection we came to, I told him that wasn't turbo lag that was an ignition problem. He also gave me the "fixed in December" routine.

I don't like the problem, but I detest the lie. I would feel much better if they were more upfront about the problem and just told us what they are doing about it, including using a new engine in 2006. This makes me feel like they aren't going to stand behind their product. Miniblues is right. With the prices they're getting and most of the dealers in my area charging premiums to MSRP, I expect candor and facts. Maybe too much to expect from a car manufacturer.

 

I have a 2003 Jetta as well and I am having horibble problems with the tranny.
_______________

geez...what kind of problems are you having with the tranny? Is it 5 speed? Knock on wood my son's Jetta is problem free, but don't like the sound of a tranny prob :smile:

BTW....my son's Jetta has A/C to die for, of course I live in Phoenix and the MINI could use a stronger blower...under 100 degrees it's fine, but at 117 that poor baby is working it's heart out :smile:

 

Miniwanna,

I have been critical of BMW/MINI for the amount of time it has taken them to come out with a fix for the engine software mgmt issues and perhaps more so for their lack of detailed information and conflicting information provided to those who have the software problems. Many of us feel we have been strung along and lied to. Maybe lied to is too strong. Misled may be better. In any event, it has been extremely lack luster customer service on the part of MINIUSA.

That being said, I would not wait until 2006/2007 to order a MINI. As long as you go in with your eyes wide open, and it sounds like you've done your homework and understand the car's good points and bad points, you will enjoy the car for what it is. If you have problems, you will expect them.

The only caveat I would suggest is that you explain in advance to your dealer that if you order the car and it stumbles, you have the right to refuse that car and order another until such time that you get a working car. And that you can cancel the order if the car stumbles and get a full refund of your deposit, should you choose to buy another vehicle. And hopefully, the stumble issue will be fixed soon and will be a non-issue. Oh, what I would give if my only complaint were that my speaker grill popped off.

When the MINI runs properly, it's the closest thing to a fun pill you can buy.

Good luck in your decision,
JS

 

Miniwanna,

I have a love/hate relationship with my MINI. I love the handling and the looks, but I have been though hell with it. BMW has repeatdly lied and strung me along in many instances. I have a bucking and lurching problem and also I can feel vibration in the seat the and the shifter. I have had the computer sent to BMW and they told me there is nothing more they can do for me. The problem still exists. BMW tells me its software which is a COMPLETE LIE, becuase I have a CVT and the latest software shouldve fixed this. I also know someone else with this problem and he was fed lies about it being his software until his tranny blew and had to have the car flat bedded. Now they have been telling me they are going to send some "super tech crew" out to fix my problem. Its been two weeks and so far that hasnt come about. I am totally fed up. That being said I cant find another car I would want so I am stuck in a hard situation. Now the MCS problem is supposedly software related but that doesnt mean BMW arent liars or handling this situation poorly. I really think things were rushed, especailly with the CVT and the MCS which were never on the European launch.

 

>>Thanks for the great feedback. Exactly what I expected from the people who use this board. I'm not sure what I will do yet, I really want a Mini, but I could wait, there's no big hurry. On the other hand I remeber the fun I had during the test drive and can imagine the current model would be so much fun to drive...
>>
>>Oh well, decisions, decisions,. any other inputs?
Yes it is and thank you very much!

 

There is nothing wrong with the Tritec engine. In fact, the supercharged version used in the MCS has won international accolades.

http://www.tritecmotors.com.br/engli...tec/awards.htm

What you are seeing is nothing more that global positioning from the international corporations that run the motor industry. This is nothing more than ego soothing and testicular positioning on the part of some corporate suits.

Remember the Sunbeam Tiger? A Chrysler product (Rootes Group) with a Ford engine. Don't you think ole' Walter spun in his grave (at 6,400 rpm redline) while that was in production? How 'bout the Chevrolet Cosworth Vega also with Ford power, or the current Ford owned Land Rover Range Rover with a BMW lump under the hood.

No, BMW is a rival of Daimler-Chrysler. Nothing gets under a suit's skin quicker than a runaway success of a car, with a non-standard powerplant.

Why Peugeot? Technology partners, both are competitive in FIA sanctioned series, and both have Mercedes as a major rival. Plus, who knows, maybe a suit has a thing for the French.

_________________
BLUBELLE - 2003 MCS IB /W Premium, Sport, Cold pkgs, Lapis blue interior, Magnecor wires, Alta Pulley, Moss Skid Plate, Chrome Trim Interior

 

I was in a similar place......a few days before I was scheduled to pick up
my MINI(BRG/WT + PRM PKG #1 + heat leather seats)from Manhattan Mini,
I read up on the STUMBLE issue thats being hotly debt about on here...
I quickly became disillusioned and had second thoughts about getting it.
While I was so sure about buying this car, I was also concerened about
this stumble problem, (I had experienced it on a test drive and thought
it was just me getting used to the clutch). Well after talking it over with a
friend who owns a volkswagon, and heard his story (the motor that operates the windows
on the Beetle has a flaw in it that required Volkswagon to extend the warrenty), I decided
that I was not going to let a potential problem stop me from getting this car. There's always
going to be something that isnt perfect about this or any car, and thats a hard thing to get over, especially
for a perfectionist like me. So If you really like this car, and you obviously do, then you should
go for it. Life is too short and this car is way too much fun to wait for BMW to "get it right".

 

There is nothing wrong with the Tritec engine. In fact, the supercharged version sued in the MCS has won international accolades.
_____________

The international guys giving out the accolades obviously haven't driven my MCS :smile:

 

I've been led to believe that stumble is more common to the MCS. Is this true? Thanks.

 

>>Remember the Sunbeam Tiger? A Chrysler product (Rootes Group) with a Ford engine. Don't you think ole' Walter spun in his grave (at 6,400 rpm redline) while that was in production? How 'bout the Chevrolet Cosworth Vega also with Ford power, or the current Ford owned Land Rover Range Rover with a BMW lump under the hood.


Yes, and like the MINI, the agreement to use Ford power happened before Chrysler bought Rootes. They wanted to sneak the Chrysler small (and I use the term loosely) block into the Tiger, but it wouldn't fit.

 

>>I've been led to believe that stumble is more common to the MCS. Is this true? Thanks.

Generally yes.

 

The funny thing about the stumble is that the problem, as I understand it, has happened to me twice in 6 months (13,500 miles) of ownership. I was fairly certain it was me screwing up both times until I started reading more. I dunno, maybe it was my fault and I'm not really having the stumble issue.

 

May I add my 2c?

I am one of the MINI owners who have contributed to some critical posts, although I do try to make an effort to be fair and contribute positive and enthusiastic posts as well.

My criticism has been related to a number of issues, including rattles, windshield, and a few more.

To be fair though, none of the issue sI have had have kept me from driving my car. It is also BY FAR the most fun car I have ever driven. I am positive that the issue I have with my car and the ones others have will be sorted out.

In addition, I positively think that the MCS engine is one of the many things that are truly great about the MINI. I love that engine! A new engine may be great as well, but the current one would certainly not keep me from buying a MINI.