After the success of BMW M5, many other luxury automakers have joined the ranks of muscle cars with testosterone-enhanced engines. This is a great news for a family man who's seeking for a little fun, yet maintaining the practicality of a four door sedan.

- BMW M5 (400 hp; $72,000); the new M5 supposed to have 500+ hp :smile:

 

I have to say, I was shocked at how attracted I was to the Caddy CTS-V when I saw a two page spread in the NYTimes a few weeks back. Seems like a really hot car, and if the interior matches the performance numbers they're posting, then it seems like one hell of a bargain. I'm also really interested in seeing how this new Volvo S60-R shakes out. Looks really cool to me! :smile:

 

I'm also quite intrigued by CTS-V with its 400 hp and 4.6 sec 0-60 mph time. Best of all, $51,000 fully equipped, which undercuts all the competitions.

As for the Volvo S60-R, it is indeed a beautiful automobile. Unfortunately, during my ownership of a new S60 T5, I experienced several quality issues. Moreover, the leg rooms in the rear seats are extremely limited. Not an ideal family sedan for me. It is a beautiful car though. :smile:

 

I wasn't impressed with the Volvo S60-R behind the wheel - the shifter is balky and the clutch has bad feel KICK A$$! Lots of room inside, a heee-uge trunk (well, it's all relative, lol), and V-8 smoothness to die for. Oh, dare I not mention Quattro, and 340HP One of the most composed cars at the limit I've driven in a while. Very nice!

I still think the //M5 is the only "real" mid-size sports sedan; the rest are an automatic-tranny bastard of a sports sedan, IMO.

 

The M5 would take my vote. With the Mercedes being a close second.

 

S4, S4, S4, S4 and oh by the way S4...make mine a S4 Convertible please.
-BruinToo

 

///M5 any day. style, prestige, class, and the techno-wizardry that is all things BMW! Formula 1 inspired V10, i'm a big fan of the classic stick shift, but a true sports sedan with the SMG tranny sounds absolutely delicious to me. Mercedes is a close second and the RS6 is third. Merc E55 is just pure muscle and great sound, Audi looks beautiful but 80k and "only" 450 hp out of a twin turbo V8? come on Audi, i thought this was a war.

 

Folks, one mag is saying the new M5 is actually going to get 550hp! Not to mention the 7 speed SMG gearbox All my searching though only finds this one article saying that....so I'm not sure on that just yet.

This is from Auto Express Magazine - actually posted back in August of last year -

Awesome New M5 Is Shaping Up


MW is beaming in to steal Audi's thunder! Hot on the heels of the RS6, which we drove in issue 706, BMW is upping the ante with the next-generation M5 – and our spies have caught it testing in the current issue of Auto Express magazine. Powered by an all-new 5.5-litre V10, it will make the current 400bhp model look weedy as it kicks out 550bhp.

The car marks BMW's answer to the 450bhp Audi RS6 and supercharged 476bhp Mercedes E55 AMG. The V10 will also go into the flagship M6 version of the forthcoming 6-Series sports coupé. Taking cues from the 7-Series with a raised bootlid, narrow rear lights and angular front end, the M5 will also come with the i-Drive system fitted as standard. On top of this will be a new seven-speed SMG gearbox with paddle controls, bringing technology pioneered by the BMW Williams Formula One team to the mainstream market.

The car is tipped to debut at the 2004 Geneva Motor Show, alongside the rest of the new 5-Series line-up, and go on sale later that year. But Audi isn't taking the news lying down. The company is developing an RS8, based on the next-generation A8. According to insiders, it will use a twin-turbo version of the VW Group's W12 engine to develop around 600bhp.

 

>>///M5 any day. style, prestige, class, and the techno-wizardry that is all things BMW! Formula 1 inspired V10, i'm a big fan of the classic stick shift, but a true sports sedan with the SMG tranny sounds absolutely delicious to me. Mercedes is a close second and the RS6 is third. Merc E55 is just pure muscle and great sound, Audi looks beautiful but 80k and "only" 450 hp out of a twin turbo V8? come on Audi, i thought this was a war.

I think it's a good indication of the lack of engineering prowess at Mercedes and Audi that they have to resort to turbos and superchargers in order to match or slightly exceed BMW's M division engines. There is no substitute for a well engineered naturally aspirated engine.

The new M5 and M6 with the V10 will be incredible. 500/550hp, 7 speed SMG and a redline around 9000.

 

///M5: 550 & 7 speed SMG, yup, I heard that too in a couple places. I believe one of those was CAR.

///M6: Any guesses what an ///M6 would run when the base 645i is $75,000

 

Yeah, I hear that. *cough* COOPER S *cough*

There are definitely times I miss having my VR6.

 

>>>>
>>Yeah, I hear that. *cough* COOPER S *cough*
>>
>>There are definitely times I miss having my VR6.

My theory on that is with smaller engines you generally don't get the same degree of engineering due to the economics of the price points. Simply put you don't put a $6000-8000 engine in a 20k car. Thus with smaller engines designers and engineers have less at their disposal. Because of this you get a lot of superchargers or turbos in smaller cars.

Besides Dave - you wouldn't want that heavy lump under your bonnet would you

 

You're right about not wanting all that weight under the bonnet, but it doesn't mean I don't miss the smoothness and the power delivery. :smile:

 

[QUOTE}I think it's a good indication of the lack of engineering prowess at Mercedes and Audi that they have to resort to turbos and superchargers in order to match or slightly exceed BMW's M division engines. There is no substitute for a well engineered naturally aspirated engine.[/QUOTE]

I can't speak for Mercedes. But in Audi's case, I wouldn't insult their engineering. Does BMW yet have AWD with a Torsen differential? I might be wrong, but I don't think so. And if you still think they don't engineer their street cars well, it could be due to the fact that they're too busy winning Le Mans. Don't treat Audi like they're a bunch of chumps. Remember that Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini, and Bentley are all under the same "roof" and are nothing less than a force to be reckoned with. In the last round of magazine tests, I seem to remember the RS-6 beating the M5 and whatever the AMG Mercedes is as well as the S4 beating the M3 and the Mercedes. This wasn't just one magazine, it was several.

 

sounds like someone drives an Audi

 

>>sounds like someone drives an Audi

:smile:

 

I'd go M5 or S4 Avant. Both are a beauty.

 

>>I'd go M5 or S4 Avant. Both are a beauty.

I'll give Audi some credit - the RS6 is a beautifully designed car.