PLease help me. Why is European V8s sounding SO MUCH BETTER THAN AMERICAN? I mean I understand this a personal; preferrence but who truely thinks a american V8 is better sounding the Euros? PS I AM AMERICAN, by the way.
What cause the extreme difference? I know HP cause a different tone, but is it the Cubes and the piston stroke that really is key?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRKWnlQ3heQ

AND NOW THE EURO V8.............Turn it UP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVM6fWjNVEk

 

I didn't listen to your video's but I can answer part of it. I'm not sure about BMW and Merc V8's and the newer Euro applications, but Ferrari and the like have always used 180 degree crankshafts in their motors instead of 90 degree cranks, which is the norm for almost all American V8's. Different power characteristics and very different sounds.
Generally the Europeans tune the exhausts a bit different and run smaller displacements as well.

 

YOU SHOULD HAVE THE bmw SOUNDS SWEET

 

How dare you compare a crappy 4.6L Mustang to an E92 M3. WTF are you thinking.....You are now banned from life....

 

You're comparing a mass production engine built for a $25k car to something that costs more than twice as much. Different costs, different tech, different tuning.

BTW, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z16SPM0WKdc

 

Hey the AMerican Stang is supposedly the most popular car for many years.

 

Well excuse me if you think a M3 is something spectactular. Where I come from its just a another car much like your beloved stang...LOL I used the M3 as a simple comparison.....Many people on u tube think the "stang" will run will any euro's.....especially more exotics. My point was WTF, The only American cars which can compete are not showroom cars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO_uMHTQEl4 $80 G'S ......



for your money a crap stang...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijnXSBmae5E
by the way.....the 5 was cheaper, faster, more luxury!!!! Ford is going under?................

 

This is a completely useless point with no practical application.

It may interest you to know that the V8 in the Corvette Z06 is smaller, lighter, torquier, and more economical than the V10 in a BMW M5. It's also much simpler in design, which means it'll be cheaper to maintain and in theory should be more reliable.

 

whats the mpg at 75mph?

 

There really is no argument here....If you havent lived in Europe and DRIVEN THE CARS, the only thing you know is NASCAR or ford/Chevy you wont get my point. there is a strong reason american cars are sinking, weight and prehistoric design are only but a few reasons.

If it was me I woulda put my money here...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBXXZ2gbriE

 

The Corvette has a better EPA highway rating due to the fact that it has taller gearing due to having more torque. At 60 in 6th gear, the Vette is turning 1300 RPM, while the M5 in 7th is at 2350 RPM. The difference would be proportional at 75 mph.

 

Let's see; A Mustang with a 2 fart can exhaust vs a BMW with a 2900 dollar exhaust system. Just listen to an Older Corvette with side pipes and a big block That car sounds like a big American V8 is supposed to sound. Then it is like comparing a roaring tiger vs a bumble bee. I prefer the sound of the Corvette my self. To each his own. That is what makes the world go round .

 

This question is not only very highly subjective but the two samples provided take place using, obviously, very different recording techniques and equipment. Those variables, along with any settings used when editing the video, as well as the innumerable speaker and amplification options at the listener end really make it impossible to make any rational judgement whatsoever. I don't think that YouTube and many listeners' speaker options can really convey all the nuances of either exhaust.

I'm not saying that, in this case ,the M3 doesn't sound better but... the technique used for the recording really gives the audio reproduction an advantage, regardless of the tonal qualities of the powerplant and exhaust.

The exhausts of both cars, from the factory, are clearly designed to complement the engine and appeal to the demographics of the buyer which, i'd guess, are pretty different.

Having recently owned an BMW M Coupe with an aftermarket exhaust as well as a built 5.0 Mustang several years ago, they both have their pros and cons. Big American V8s with lumpy cams and high compression have a certain appeal to them. Ever stand beside a Cobra with a 427 side-oiler? Maybe it's not you but that doesn't mean it doesn't sound good.

On the other hand, my buddy's F355 with a Tubi exhaust system on it sounded simply outrageous going through the tunnels here in Pittsburgh, as did his 996 C4S with the factory Sport Exhaust option. At one point he had an E46 M3 and while it sounded good, it didn't sound nearly as good as the other two. The S52 straight six in my M though had a really neat sound at lower rpm but pulling hard. Sure, it sounded good when screaming at 6,000 rpm too but many cars sound good doing that.

Lastly, I don't think you need to "live in Europe" to appreciate the cars and, I suppose, their respective exhaust tone. The North American market (and often the US alone) is the largest market for most high-performance or exotic cars. Ferrari has sold (annually) more cars in the US than any other country (an often the European market as a whole) in the world for over 30 years. More E46 M3s were sold in the US than in all of Europe. By no means are these cars as uncommon here as you might think and we have plenty of opportunity to enjoy their aural qualities.

 

This is actually one of my favorite YouTube things!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0YoG...eature=related

 

Off topic but...

The F355 had one of those variable flow exhausts with an actuator that would open a bypass valve when you were on it but close for normal, quieter driving.

It broke. The Ferrari dealers wanted the expected ridiculous price. Something well over $1000, if not more, as I recall.

We replaced it with a peice for the Ferrari Challenge cars that some guy in Japan was selling for just a few hundred dollars. (What a deal!) It just stays wide-open all the time. It was impossible to carry on a conversation in the car but it sounded so nice. Of course, it got more than the desired level of attention from the authorities as well...

 

I had a 600HP N/A 1992 5.0GT Mustang. I have a 3-series. I have a Mini. I have a Touareg. I prefer Euro cars. I lived in Italy for a few years. Euro to American is no comparison. Euros come out on top every time. I like the new Vettes but I would still buy an M3 any day. Just a nicer car all around.

 

I can appreciate the symphonic sounds from a high revving V8 from the European community, but the deep and torquey muscular rumble of an American V8 is my preference. I've had 3 different LS1 vehicles though, and I spend a lot of time in the LSX community, so perhaps I'm a bit biased.

Asking people which exhaust sound they prefer is no different than asking them what type of music they like best. You're not going to be able to say one is better than the other, or convince someone otherwise with any arguments. As stated by EBR53, it's entirely subjective.

 

.................................................. .........The comparisons where just for fun guys.

 

From what I have seen of manufacturers tuning the cars for exhaust note I'm betting that it has more to do with fulfilling expectations as they relate to the market segment and brand more then anything mechanical.

 

I HAVE lived in Europe, Germany to be exact. I knew exactly 2 people who had BMW's or Mercs with V8's - and I worked with the CEOs and CIOs of big financial firms. Among them were about 4 or 5 who had Italians with 8s or 10s. And 2 of the English guys had V8 Jags (Fords, really). I never met ANYONE with a 5 figure job owning a 8 cylinder car. That's the primary reason you'll find that European 8 cylinder cars are in a different class than a typical US Mustang 4.6 or even a GM LSX. When you're charging 80,90, or 150 grand for a car, you can afford to put 30 or even 50 grand into the engine and transmission. That's more than the list price of nearly every US musclecar except the Vette and Cobra. It would be ludicrous to expect the same level of sophistication in a mass-produced US V8.

And strangely enough, the sample chosen here is very un-representative of Euro-tuned exhausts. Most western european high-performance cars are tuned with a smoother, higher-pitched exhaust based on the european view that F1 racing is the epitome of performance. The M3 example here sounds much more like a classic US V8 before emissions controls, with a high-lift (but smooth) cam and non-catalytic converter exhaust. I think it sounds good precisely because it sounds similar to the sound my early 70's 350 Nova used to make.

Euro-snobbism is a pity, because they're missing out on some really great experiences. A modern Corvette is a class beater when positioned against nearly anything else in a price bracket even twice its own, yet the Germans and English love to put it down because of.... the interior. They still point back to the funky track behaviour of the stock Vette back in the 70's - while the Ferraris and Jaguars of the same era were just as squirrely - ignoring the complete re-design that came with the C5. They try to make a deal about the "leaf springs" of the vette, but fail to point out they are uniquely transverse, and made of composite materials, not steel, creating a very effective alternative to coil-overs (which are available aftermarket too). And, while a Ferarri or Lambo will break down every 10,000 miles or so, a BMW will cost you beau coup bucks if you break anything, and an Aston is quite simply not even a purchase consideration unless you make a quarter million a year, US cars like the Cobra, Vette, and even high-end Mustang can deliver the same or better performance depending on venue for much, MUCH lower maintenance and modification costs. An LSX engine will easily run 200,000 MILES without anything but regular oil changes, even if you take it to the track once a month. Take away the ridiculous import tarrifs and crazy marketing agreements required to offer them in Germany, and the ability to enjoy superb power and performance would no longer be the exclusive domain of the very rich in that land. But as it stands now, the governments, media, and corporate politics have been very effective at preventing the US from expanding its reach into the performance-deprived upper-middle-class european market.

(Sorry about last night's post - now replaced - my night posting goggles were too tight.)

 

European V8's tend to be smaller bore, American V8's are usually larger bore.

Your standard 440 Chrysler is 4.32" bore with a 3.75" stroke, while the BMW V8 in the M3 3.62" bore with a 2.96" stroke. the 440 is also a 7.0L though, lol.


The exhaust is only part of the equation. My Roadrunner with the headers uncorked sounds totally different than a high revving Ferrari V8 does with a set of straight pipes.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lQX3cOAbes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5eg9...eature=related

I know both are modded cobra's but I'd say they'd beat any euro V8 sound. but then again here's a highly modded euro 360 CS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KB2-...eature=related


It comes down to bore and firing order. I have a C5Z and the ls6 engine is great engine to build off of but anytime I see a 5.0 stang I smile because it just sounds the way a V8 should. win or loose at the line...I will say deep down Ford got it right.

PS...I tend to prefer the euro V8

 

In the interest of stoking this fire, what part of the Z06 motor is smaller other than the fact that the BMW has two more pistons? Because the # of pistons doesn't have a thing to do with the size of the mill. Do you have specs on the comparisons between the weights of the motors? How is it more economical?

M5 V10: 5L
Z06: 7L

My biggest arguement against American performance engines isn't the fact that they're simpler, which I guess they technically are, but that they're archaic. The Mustangs have made a step in the right driection by going to DOHC motors. In the case of the Vette, the basic design hasn't been drastically changed since.....well, ever. Sure they've made tweaks here and there, changed materials, etc....but the basic design has remained as consistant as gravity. The worst part is, they had a fantastic DOHC motor for the Vette in the original ZR-1 from the early 90s. Simple fact is, When you design a DOHC motor, it's going to be more tunable in it's naturally aspirated form than a pushrod motor. That's why BMW can get 500HP n/a out of a 5.0L factory street motor and GM needs 7 whole Liters to get 500hp. And the effect is even more profound when you add forced induction.

How are European motors more difficult to maintain? Are we talking oil changes or complete rebuilds?

Reliability, I would sure hope that if someone has been using the same basic design for more than 50 years that they could make it reliable. I would say that Euro motors are basically designed to be usable on the Autobahn, and that they're somewhat over-engineered by American standards. On the other hand Vette/Stang motors are basically made for the average yahoo to take to the strip and thrash mercilessly. Basically, there's a lot more known now about metallurgy and materials and it takes a servere design flaw to cause reliability issues.....in the motor anyway. You're always going have those cases where the nut behind the wheel expects the car to be invicible. Big surprise, if you push the car too hard, something is going to give.

Well, I consider this fire stoked......flame away!