White Mini that crashed on HWY84 10.11.09
 

Please take the time to think about the event that took place this morning at about 0915.

You were driving a white Mini eastbound on HWY84 about approximately 7/10ths of a mile from Alice's. You were driving very fast. Were you following/trying to catch the white STi that went through the turn a second or two prior? You entered a left turn at a speed that caused you to begin to run wide. Maybe you were going too fast for the turn, maybe you turned-in too early, maybe the car was understeering. Any way you look at it, you entered the turn above your skill level and came very close to injuring two innocent people.

I saw you attempt to slow down deep into the turn. It looked like it was typical lift throttle oversteer, very common to FWD cars. Maybe it was caused by improper braking. Either way, your car began to slide/spin counterclockwise. I saw you slide out of control, into the oncoming, westbound lane and then hit the embankment almost head on. I saw all of this from the drivers seat of the C6 Z06 coming the other way. You missed me by less than a foot.

As soon as I saw you loose control of your car, I knew that I was in danger of being hit. As you began to cross over the double yellow line I began to move my car as far to my right as possible, eventually putting both right tires off of the pavement. Initially I wasn't sure if I could stop short enough to avoid you hitting me. It took me a split second to realize that the only chance I had was to try and accelerate past you before you crossed completely into my lane. It proved to be the correct choice. I was able to glance in the mirror to see the front of your car miss left side of my car by less than a foot. When you hit the embankment, I saw the entire bottom of your car and thought you were going to roll onto your roof. You are a very lucky person. (I guess I am too) I thought I saw someone sitting in the passenger seat, how are they doing?

An eyewitness said that you were driving very quickly/aggressively in the turns prior to the one where you lost control. Another witness said that you quickly put the car into reverse and left the scene with your front fascia barely hanging on to the rest of the car. I would have to guess that the airbags deployed. I hope you are not injured.

Please, please, stop driving above your skill level. It was nothing but luck that you didn't crash into me. A few seconds later and you could have hit the motorcyclist that was behind me. You know, the one that waited for you to flee the scene.

Please remember one of the most basic techniques of performance driving:
In a SPIN? TWO FEET IN! Press the brake and clutch pedals to the floor!

Please avoid driving above your skill level. Notice that I said above your skill level. I enjoy cars (and motorcycles) and I enjoy driving them quickly. In fact, I refer to them as transportainment. The trick is having the judgment to know when to risk driving quickly and aggressively. Taking it to the track is a much safer option. Weekends in the Santa Cruz Mountiains are not the time. On a typical weekend, HWY84, HWY9, HWY35 are full of hundreds of motorcycles, many families on a weekend getaway to the beach. You must also consider that the road surface is frequently damp and wet in the early hours of the day.

I know it is a long shot, but I sincerely hope that the driver of that particular Mini actually reads this thread. I didn't come here to flame, and I hope that has come through in this post.

Thanks for reading.

why do you drive a 'vette?

Sorry bro, not going to get sucked into a discussion that has nothing to do with the subject matter of the thread.

I'd say the odds are incredibly small that said driver is connected to this forum in any way. And even if they are, someone who flees an accident scene isn't likely to take the advice to heart anyway.

It is sad that there are so many bad drivers out there. I honestly think that we need better driver education and stricter testing. I swear there must be a drivers license vending machine out there somewhere, because there is no way some of these people could've/should've passed a drivers test. Coming home the other day, a woman in a silver SUV turned right in front of me to get on the one-way street I was traveling on , except she was going the wrong way. And guess what else she was doing? She was brushing her teeth!!!

Enchanter,
Thanks for posting that story. I spend a fair amount of time driving the roads in that area, and have seen some pretty bonehead stuff from both cars and motorcycles.
Sure, I have driven in a spirited manner up there, but I never cross the yellow line. (except to get by bicyclists) And I refuse to get sucked in to "racing" someone else.

Jim

Way to take the high road Enchanter. :thumbsup:

Thanks for taking the time. Even if that driver isn't on this forum it's bound to strike a cord with other drivers.

Stupid drivers are everywhere.
 

I was on I-95 in North Carolina doing 75mph in traffic. Both lanes were full so I just stayed in the right lane going along with the heavy traffic when a Mini-Van passed on the right shoulder. I'll bet that thing was going at least 95/100 when it went by me. I thought I would come upon an accident up the road but I didn't.
I guess it does not matter what a Moron drives. Stupid drivers are all over and I guess you just gotta be careful and watch out for them.
On my trip I did pass two different cars with the drivers having Lap-Tops on the steering wheel while driving. Of course they were going pretty slow and in the right hand lane. I guess they thought it would be safe driving going about 55 in a 70mph interstate highway while viewing a computer screen.
Ronnie948:mad:

LOL

You start a thread by trolling and now you don't want to get sucked in.....

:lol:

I wouldn't call his post trolling but I would call yours flamebaiting.

Yeah, didn't sound like trolling to me either. After all, he did post it in an appropriate forum topic and not in general mini talk so he could get his message across to a specific area of MINI drivers. That road to Alice's is a known weekend driving route for bikers and drivers. There's always a danger of running into someone doing something stupid so it's not like its unlikely a reckless MINI driver would be present. I for one am interested if anyone managed to get the MINI's plates and reported him for reckless driving and endangerment? And, no, it wasn't me despite owning a PW R56. :razz: :razz:

Who is You? who are you speaking to?
Not very many MINI drivers go on the NAM forum, if you compare to how many are on the road. -shocking i know!-
..annd this forum place thing seems to only have knowledgable people with good judgment who won't chase after boyracers in their rally cars

That inexperienced MINI driver should move to houston! Nice flat straight long boring roads as far as the eye can see; no whacky hills or curves or turns for you. :sly:

What other reason could the OP have but to stir the pot on a forum he doesn't have any interest in? Doing his good deed for the day? Trying to get us to police what a member was doing?

C'mon, he just wanted to cause a good bit of finger pointing. What if it had been one of us posting about his boneheaded move on his "Vette forum.

I imagine there would be the same mix of responses. Those who are outraged with the complete disregard for life and safety that the MINI driver exhibited and those that maybe feel like he's personally attacking them.

So, Bigshot, are you condoning the driving that Enchanter witnessed? I sure don't. Maybe you're taking it a bit personally?

This will be last time I weigh in on this because, unlike Enchanter,

I imagine there would be the same mix of responses. Those who are outraged with the complete disregard for life and safety that the MINI driver exhibited and those that maybe feel like he's personally attacking them.

So, Bigshot, are you condoning the driving that Enchanter witnessed? I sure don't. Maybe you're taking it a bit personally? The end.

Not taking it personally, but I don't see what possible good it would do to come to a forum and try to embarrass a member by exposing his bad judgement.

Now if he had simply been a MINi owner and was describing what another driver had done w/o trying to call him out, or describing his car, or revealing other evidence of the persons identity I would not have a problem. But this really seems to me to be a case of "I am going to get that guy and embarrass him in front of all of his friends" kind of a thing. Not really something that I would define as well intentioned.

If you cannot tell the difference between a trolling post, and a post with usable content, then there isn't a whole lot that you are going to get out of this thread.

Let's review:
I addressed the actions of one specific driver, not all Mini drivers.
No name calling.
No insults.
I mentioned what I was driving as a way of indicating that I was the actual driver of the car, in case the Mini driver had any doubt.
I've not bagged on Mini's or made any type of comparison in any way.
I've made an attempt to show that I'm not a hypocrite by not saying "slow down", but rather "drive within your limits."
As far as policing your own, Peer Pressure is a very useful tool. I doubt that you will have much ability to influence this specific driver (for a variety of reasons), but if a friend of his reads this, it might help.
I didn't attack that driver as a person, nor did I build myself up as being superior.

I've been riding and driving on the roads in the Santa Cruz Mountains for over 20 years now. Things are getting worse up there. The locals are banding together and pressuring Law Enforcement to act more frequently and with a heavier hand. They hold community meetings and offer to purchase the Radar and Lidar for the Police. A few nut cases are talking about taking action on their own. There have been rumors of oil poured in turns. This past weekend someone found a large box of roofing nails accidentally 'dropped' in a turn. It cannot be proven either way, but it isn't doing much for Public Relations.

Some readers have been able to decipher my motivation. Others find it challenging to do so. I don't know how to reach those people.

If that driver is embarassed about his actions, then he should reconsider said actions.

So you are saying that you would have looked at this differently if I owned a Mini?

I'm sorry that you are unable to understand the gravity of the situation that my wife and I experienced due to the lack of skill exhibited by that Mini driver.

Fine, you did your civic duty.

I am fully aware of and can appreciate your reaction to this persons lack of judgment. But I still don't see the need to come to a forum that you have no interest in just to try and expose a possible members actions. This would have been better handled by the cops or other methods.

I realize the problems of the canyons and feel for you, but this again should be something you need to try and handle locally instead of on a forum.

The fact that I came here shows the interest. I can only imagine the outrage had a 'Vette driver ratted out a Mini driver to the Cops.

I had to look to ensure that I did post this in the Northern California local forum.

enchanter you did good , appreciate input. thank you !!!

thanks for the post Enchanter.

sincerely,

Charlie

Alright...

Are we done?

A good post
 

Hi Enchanter,
Thanks for posting this on our forum. It was not anything but information on a thing that did happen. It was not the car but the driver that was doing something really stupid.
I have a 2009 JCW Mini but I have had many Corvettes and I still belong to the Corvette Forum.
I learned a long time ago how easy it is to join an organization that has track days a few time a year. I have done time at Daytona in my 98 Corvette as well as my JCW. It is much safer for everyone if you can keep the speeding off of the highways and streets. It is also much more fun if you don't have to worry about a speeding ticket.
There is just way to many other cars on the roads in these days and not like 30 years ago when you could find places to street race without endangering people other then the one's involved.
I like speed but I just don't do it on the street any more. Or should I say "I LOVE SPEED"

Why rag on a guy for simply pointing out someone's error in judgement?
 

Big Shot...grow up man. Why rag on this guy who wanted to get the word out on a "squid" to people who might know the guy?

There are plenty of people who drive "over their heads" on roads like 35, 84, 1, etc. on both 4 and two wheels. The Alice's area is crawling with crazeoids every weekend and has been for the past 30 + years.

To quote an old movie "A man's got to know his limitations". At some point, most of us push the limits a bit too far. Mine came on cafe racers back in the 1970's up on the Sunday Morning Ride in Marin. It's when and where these limits are pushed that is important.

I'd much rather go fast out on Pope Valley Road or west Marin than in the Santa Cruz Mountain areas on a weekend. The guy in the Vette was out for a nice weekend drive and almost paid the price of someone else's lack of skill levels. I see ricbow has posted here. I driven with him on some pretty twisty roads, at a fair speed so I know he knows what he's talking about as well.

Not to add further salt onto fellow owners, but this is NOT excusable: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...S7I8.DTL&tsp=1

SLOW YOUR @SS'S DOWN PLEASE!

I have to agree frumysf. The driver was a 19 yr old with minimal time "in the saddle" no doubt. This accident is about a 5 minute drive from my house on the east side of Novato & I pass through there regularly. When I first heard about the wreck on KCBS740, I assumed it was the MINI that got broadsided not the other way around. I think the MINI driver was probably trying to "make the light" so he was accelerating on Lakeville Hwy and the driver of the Honda CR-V determined that he/she could stop safely at the yellow light. The picture in the article shows where they ended up on the Reclamation Rd side of HWY 37 and it blows me away that this young driver thought he could make the turn onto eastbound 37 at that high rate of speed. Prayers go out for the Sonoma family tragically killed in this accident.

On Friday morning (after this Thanksgiving) around 6:30 am I was driving on 101 south in very light traffic through San Rafael in the left lane on my way to work in SF. Up ahead of me in the next lane over was a sweet looking Honda Civic. We were both cruising along around 60-65 mph or so when a woman in an Audi station wagon blew by me in the right lane at about 90. My first thought was that she was trying to get to one of those Black Friday sales! As we all approached that kink in the freeway under the 580 overpass, the Audi driver suddenly decided she needed to be in the left lane (in spite of the fact that there were no cars in front of her). She swooped across all four lanes heading to my lane and I thought that she was going too fast and wasn't going to make it so I started to brake. Just then she slammed on the brakes and nearly hit the Honda, then started to fish-tail out of control. At that point I started down-shifting, hit the emergecy flashers to warn the cars behind me and looked for an escape route as she spun around. It felt like I was in a NASCAR race as she spun quickly around while sliding back toward the right lane then the car abruptly spun yet again and headed back toward me. On about the fourth rotation, I accelerated past her and looked back to see her come to rest pointing the right direction on the right shoulder berm. Wow! That was way too close for me. I caught up to and passed in front of the Honda on my way to get gas at the Chevron station in Corte Madera. The Honda followed me into the station and a young Hispanic guy got out of his car and was looking at his tires. I told him what had just happened and he said he had heard all the screeching tire sounds and thought he had something go wrong with his car. He & I had lucked out this time & hopefully the Audi driver wet her pants over what she had just done.

Both of these incidents were avoidable and cause me to rethink my driving habits. As most of you know, our MINIs handle & accelerate so well, they lead to "spirited" driving. I think I'll be backing off a click or two from now on and get to where I'm going a few minutes later but all in one piece.