Navigation & Audio Subwoofers are a waste of space in this little car!
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 477
Likes: 16
From: San Antonio, Texas
Facts are such pesky little things... 
Excuse me! But unless I'm mistaken the Focal Solid4 has a power rating of 200w into 4 ohms when bridged. Below are the Technical specifications from their web site located here: http://www.focal.com/en/car-audio-so...lis/solid4.php
Focal Solid 4
Technical specifications
High-pass filter 50 - 150Hz (12dB/oct)
Low-pass filter 50 - 150Hz (12dB/oct)
Remote control yes
Maximum cross section of speaker wires 10mm2 7 AWG
Fuse(s) 2 x 25A
Nominal power measured at 14.4V continuously into 4 Ohms THD + N<=1% 4 x 75W
Input impedance 20 kOhms
Damping factor @ 4 Ohms 50 to 1kHz
Signal/Noise ratio (RMS) >100dB (A)
Frequency response 10Hz - 60kHz
Input sensitivity 0.2 - 5V
Maximum cross section of power cables 35mm2 - 2 AWG
Protections - Short circuit - Thermal overload - Overvoltage - Polarity reversal
Dimensions (HxWxD) 13/4 x 1113/16 x 77/8
Signal/Noise ratio (1 Watt output) >80dB (A)
Nominal power measured at 14.4V continuously into 2 Ohms THD + N <= 1% 4 x 100W
THD + N @ 4Ohms 0.02% @ 1kHz
Power in bridged mode measured at 14.4V continuously into 4 Ohms THD + N<1% 2 x 200W
I think you can see that the last spec refers to the "bridged" rating. I'm very familar with focal/JM Labs products. I have used them for over 20 years. The amp you are using is not rated to drive a 2 ohm load in bridged mode and only a fool would do an installation that way regardless of the thermal protection circuit.
Kevin is being way too kind to you by explaining all the fundimental mistakes you have made. I wouldn't bother.
My original statement still stands... I doubt you made one valid point or argument in this whole thread.
You kind of remind me of Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby... everytime you say something you make your situation worse.
Focal Solid 4
Technical specifications
High-pass filter 50 - 150Hz (12dB/oct)
Low-pass filter 50 - 150Hz (12dB/oct)
Remote control yes
Maximum cross section of speaker wires 10mm2 7 AWG
Fuse(s) 2 x 25A
Nominal power measured at 14.4V continuously into 4 Ohms THD + N<=1% 4 x 75W
Input impedance 20 kOhms
Damping factor @ 4 Ohms 50 to 1kHz
Signal/Noise ratio (RMS) >100dB (A)
Frequency response 10Hz - 60kHz
Input sensitivity 0.2 - 5V
Maximum cross section of power cables 35mm2 - 2 AWG
Protections - Short circuit - Thermal overload - Overvoltage - Polarity reversal
Dimensions (HxWxD) 13/4 x 1113/16 x 77/8
Signal/Noise ratio (1 Watt output) >80dB (A)
Nominal power measured at 14.4V continuously into 2 Ohms THD + N <= 1% 4 x 100W
THD + N @ 4Ohms 0.02% @ 1kHz
Power in bridged mode measured at 14.4V continuously into 4 Ohms THD + N<1% 2 x 200W
I think you can see that the last spec refers to the "bridged" rating. I'm very familar with focal/JM Labs products. I have used them for over 20 years. The amp you are using is not rated to drive a 2 ohm load in bridged mode and only a fool would do an installation that way regardless of the thermal protection circuit.
Kevin is being way too kind to you by explaining all the fundimental mistakes you have made. I wouldn't bother.
My original statement still stands... I doubt you made one valid point or argument in this whole thread.
You kind of remind me of Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby... everytime you say something you make your situation worse.
+1 to everything Kevin (Integral Audio) and djdraddy have said about the proper audio set up for cars.
They are way less than perfect and trying to get them to sound as good as many people do is very difficult.
And for the OP to say that his components are Better than IA without knowing what they are in preposterous.
They are way less than perfect and trying to get them to sound as good as many people do is very difficult.
And for the OP to say that his components are Better than IA without knowing what they are in preposterous.
Eirhead has definitely got the details a little fuzzy, but ignoring that the original question - can (2) 6x9 woofers in the rear locations approximate a true subwoofer? - is a reasonable question.
The answer is: yes, sort of. But it is more work, more expensive, and the end result wouldn't be nearly as good. To do it you'd need to:
1) Find a quality 6x9 subwoofer. A true subwoofer, not a full range speaker that happens to fit in the hole.
2) Seal and precisely measure the cavity behind the 6x9s. Adjust the volume based on the parameters of the subwoofer.
Why didn't we do this instead of building our subwoofer system? Item 1) isn't commercially available - not at the quality we require. We could have had it built - we're building all our other speakers now after all - but other applications are limited and it becomes cost prohibitive due to a lack of ANY suitable existing tooling. And item 2) isn't practical. It's impossible to get a reasonable sized enclosure in there, and the tooling required there is also cost prohibitive. And in the end you're looking at MORE weight - (2) woofers + enclosures - than our single 10" system in the boot floor.
For the DIY'er, item 2) makes trying to do this difficult and impractical, and item 1) makes it impossible, assuming you are looking for quality that would even begin to approach our subwoofer system.
Thread Starter
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1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Nominal impedance means "as intended" it doesn't mean you can't go beyond that. The minimum load is 1 ohm, or 2 ohms bridged as per the manual. I will make you guys a scan of the manual because it's pissing me off that you guys are saying I'm wrong.
Infact one of the example diagrams that comes with the amp shows a 2ohm subwoofer being ran bridged. It's perfectly acceptable and within spec. You just shouldn't turn your gain up much past 75%
Infact one of the example diagrams that comes with the amp shows a 2ohm subwoofer being ran bridged. It's perfectly acceptable and within spec. You just shouldn't turn your gain up much past 75%
However, whether or not the amp is 2-ohm stable bridged is the very least of the areas where I and others are pointing out that you might be a bit off-base in terms of facts.
You've made a number of inflammatory and questionable-at-best statements in an already inflammatory post, so I think you'll agree that there is no reason to get angry with the rest of us. We were just trying to help keep you from frying an otherwise excellent amp.
Thread Starter
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1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
It's just too bad that NOWHERE on that spec sheet does it tell you the minimum impedances which are listed on the far more detailed MANUAL that came with the amp.
Why do most internet people have to rain on your parade? It's like you guys got nothing better to do except blindly bully to make yourself feel better? I'm out til friday, the only intelligent person in this thread is a vendor who has a staked interest. I'll post the manual friday if this isn't locked.
Why do most internet people have to rain on your parade? It's like you guys got nothing better to do except blindly bully to make yourself feel better? I'm out til friday, the only intelligent person in this thread is a vendor who has a staked interest. I'll post the manual friday if this isn't locked.
Why do most internet people have to rain on your parade? It's like you guys got nothing better to do except blindly bully to make yourself feel better? I'm out til friday, the only intelligent person in this thread is a vendor who has a staked interest. I'll post the manual friday if this isn't locked.
Focal Solid 4 Manual: http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchf.../091SLID1B.PDF
That amp appears to be 2 ohm stable, not 1 ohm, meaning your bridged min impedance is 4 ohms, not 2.
Barring some unforeseen and earth-shattering development I'm going to sign-out of this thread. If anyone has any questions that I can help with, please PM me or post a new thread.
Last edited by Kevin@Integral Audio; May 18, 2011 at 11:52 AM.
INTERNET PEOPLE
You are a mean and eviiiiiiiiil person
You are a mean and eviiiiiiiiil person It's just too bad that NOWHERE on that spec sheet does it tell you the minimum impedances which are listed on the far more detailed MANUAL that came with the amp.
Why do most internet people have to rain on your parade? It's like you guys got nothing better to do except blindly bully to make yourself feel better? I'm out til friday, the only intelligent person in this thread is a vendor who has a staked interest. I'll post the manual friday if this isn't locked.
Why do most internet people have to rain on your parade? It's like you guys got nothing better to do except blindly bully to make yourself feel better? I'm out til friday, the only intelligent person in this thread is a vendor who has a staked interest. I'll post the manual friday if this isn't locked.
Like I said earlier... I knew this thread was going no-where.
At least Kevin jumped in and we could give him some props for his knowledge and hard work at DESIGNING a subwoofer system four our MINIs that works well and it makes a crap sound system actual usable.
Once again this is all very subjective to your wallet, your ears and your knowledge. Some have more and some have less of the above.
At least Kevin jumped in and we could give him some props for his knowledge and hard work at DESIGNING a subwoofer system four our MINIs that works well and it makes a crap sound system actual usable.
Once again this is all very subjective to your wallet, your ears and your knowledge. Some have more and some have less of the above.
I am real curious about this amp you were planning to build
What style amp? What input/output stage ?
class?
your own design?
please tell us more
I was toying with the idea of building my own amp from scratch originally.
class?
your own design?
please tell us more
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: Wareham MA
Well this thread certainly went down hill pretty damn quick. I was hoping to learn a little about addressing my only concern with my R53 standard stereo, getting a little more volume on the occasion when I felt like listening to music while driving with the windows down and the sunroof open.
For the record I have a serious audio fetish but I confine it to the controlled environment of my living room where I can actually accomplish my goals. If you think you can achieve audio nirvana in a car you're delusional. And not just any car, a MINI. When people start talking about sound insulation I have to wonder how much sound insulation am I going to need to mask the sound of that cold air intake, the whine of the supercharger, and let's not forget that pesky burble. And the tires I drive on are just about the nosiest tires I could have chosen. What on earth could ever make me pick those? What was I thinking? It's a car and a pretty awesome one at that.
To the OP, I would still like to know how to tweak a little more out of my system without destroying the visceral experience of why I bought this car instead of a Honda Prelude.
For the record I have a serious audio fetish but I confine it to the controlled environment of my living room where I can actually accomplish my goals. If you think you can achieve audio nirvana in a car you're delusional. And not just any car, a MINI. When people start talking about sound insulation I have to wonder how much sound insulation am I going to need to mask the sound of that cold air intake, the whine of the supercharger, and let's not forget that pesky burble. And the tires I drive on are just about the nosiest tires I could have chosen. What on earth could ever make me pick those? What was I thinking? It's a car and a pretty awesome one at that.
To the OP, I would still like to know how to tweak a little more out of my system without destroying the visceral experience of why I bought this car instead of a Honda Prelude.
Alas, I have no burble, I have an 2010 R55 S. I love the burble on my friend's JCW but I have no burble. 
I also love the Pop too, and I don't have that either.
I am told that the burble was reserved for the JCW cars from 2008-2010. Word has it that the burble has returned to the "S" in 2011 when the sport button is applied. I am covetous of that burble! If I could...I would buy a burble or I would even steal a burble if it were possible, but its not.
I am holding out great hope that the ALTA AcessPort will someday provide the ability to posses my own burble and maybe the pop too, but that day is still out of reach.
I also love the Pop too, and I don't have that either.I am told that the burble was reserved for the JCW cars from 2008-2010. Word has it that the burble has returned to the "S" in 2011 when the sport button is applied. I am covetous of that burble! If I could...I would buy a burble or I would even steal a burble if it were possible, but its not.
I am holding out great hope that the ALTA AcessPort will someday provide the ability to posses my own burble and maybe the pop too, but that day is still out of reach.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Ironically, I have found this thread to be quite informative. While I appreciate the idea of the IA subwoofer system, it has always been my intent to use the rear 6x9 cavity to fit some sort of sub (I have it narrowed down to the Genesis P69, Elemental Designs' e3.6, and Tang Band's 6.5 & 6x9 subs). BUT, I don't want to go free air and fitting some sort of enclosure in there is a concern. Kevin's reply in post #28 has single-handedly convinced me to go with the IA sub system. Part of me would still love to see what those Tang Band 6.5s and their 13mm of xmax can do (I'm the "impressed with less" type) but it's looking more and more like I'll give Kevin a ring and just be done with it.
Looking forward to seeing the front soundstage setup.
Looking forward to seeing the front soundstage setup.
aerodynamics, I think you will be very pleased with his product. I've been building uber quality sound/loudspeaker systems for over 20 years. Most of the drivers I use are Focal/JM Lab, Scan Speak, Dynaudio, etc. so its difficult to impress me. The AI sub impressed me.
The AI sub is made with some very serious stuff. The components quality are what I would consider way over kill for a car sub unit. It's the kind of stuff you'd see in a super high end home system. If you have a good understanding of the science and art behind good sound system design you can't help but be impressed with the product. You will not be able to construct a better sub augmentation system on your own, trust me.
BTW, I do not own any AI products nor do I have any relation to the company what so ever.
The AI sub is made with some very serious stuff. The components quality are what I would consider way over kill for a car sub unit. It's the kind of stuff you'd see in a super high end home system. If you have a good understanding of the science and art behind good sound system design you can't help but be impressed with the product. You will not be able to construct a better sub augmentation system on your own, trust me.
BTW, I do not own any AI products nor do I have any relation to the company what so ever.
Neutral
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
12" Alpine Sub in Clubman
I'm lucky enough to have a clubman.
I have a 600W Alpine amp paired with a 12" Type R.
Completely a stealth system.
Gives you the bass missing a low volumes.
Here's picture with the lay flat divider removed.
I have a 600W Alpine amp paired with a 12" Type R.
Completely a stealth system.
Gives you the bass missing a low volumes.
Here's picture with the lay flat divider removed.
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: Wareham MA
I have a confession to make. I have an 03 and thus I am burbleless as well, I was just trying to make a point. Given the choice I would take burble over the best car stereo in the world.
MINI could rake in some big bucks if they offered burble upgrades. You do know it is just software don't you?
MINI could rake in some big bucks if they offered burble upgrades. You do know it is just software don't you?
2nd Gear
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: Wareham MA
I'm an old guy and my first car was a 73 MG Midget. I remember all sorts of details about that car but reading this thread made me realize I can't even remember if it had a freakin radio, although I'm sure it did.
I do remember how mechanically involving the car was though. The transmission was practillay in your lap, it was loud and it burbled and backfired like crazy. And I will never forget how much of a blast it was to drive.
My favorite line in this short Top Gear JCW clip is "you can bathe in the noise" and you can if you turn down the stereo once in a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L3o5NP_lV4&sns=em
I do remember how mechanically involving the car was though. The transmission was practillay in your lap, it was loud and it burbled and backfired like crazy. And I will never forget how much of a blast it was to drive.
My favorite line in this short Top Gear JCW clip is "you can bathe in the noise" and you can if you turn down the stereo once in a while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L3o5NP_lV4&sns=em
I went with JL Audio Components and a ReQ5 Bass restoration unit. I have the factory head unit set on "0" for both bass and treble. The entire system sounds amazing.
ReQ5 under the JL Audio 6 channel amplifier.
JL Audio component door speakers.
13.5" 600 watt sub woofer (only 2.5" deep and requires a mere .8 cu ft of air space). Two channels of the amplier are bridged to handle the sub woofer.
ReQ5 under the JL Audio 6 channel amplifier.
JL Audio component door speakers.
13.5" 600 watt sub woofer (only 2.5" deep and requires a mere .8 cu ft of air space). Two channels of the amplier are bridged to handle the sub woofer.