its functional

rice means non-functional

 

So explain how that helps with handling or grip on a MINI aside from possibliy adding unwanted understeer at high speed.

 

You need a front piece of course

 

Yah, the rear downforce would be necessary once someone had increased front downforce (through splitters or other means)

 

. . . Oh JOE! You so funny! Now put your wing away!

 

Splitter plus JCW spoiler = not rice...

 

Hmm.. but the Challenge cars don't run splitters.

 

So its functional as long as you cancel it out with front downforce, negating the use of both, so your only adding weight, and the downfoce in the front isusless so handing stays the same?

 

I assumed their approach was to dial in oversteer then add some rear downforce.

 

hahahah did you just say downforce is useless? You have to be joking

Lets say you add a splitter and a rear spoiler. You are then adding X downforce to the front and X downforce to the rear (if you have them set up to be adding the same amount of downforce...you could esaily set the splitter up to cause more downforce or vice versa)

So if the stock was experiencing A downforce...after adding the two mods the front would be experiencing A+X downforce and the same in the rear

So do you mean to tell me that a car with (A+X) front and rear would handle just as well as a car with just A front and rear? The car with (X+A) would be far more stable at high speeds and would have much more grip. So they would handle like stock how?

 

If you add down force to the front, the you'll get more grip, reduce under steer and increace the grip, now add a functional spoiler to the back and it will put downforce on the rear wheels and you are shifting the pressure to the back again, you may have marginal gain in grip, but just a splitter would be far more function in terms of providing grip, not to mention the fact the speed needed for mesurable gains is only achieved on a few of the larger longer tracks in the US; so in daily driving, autcross and at many of the shorter tighter tracks where the MINI excels the net result is added weight, with no significant (where downforce exceeds weight of product) gain in normal conditions. Don't get me wrong, it looks great but thats about all 99% of the time. Remember this is a FWD car as long as the rear wheels are on the ground any more downforce in the rear is just inducing oversteer and removing grip from the wheels that do the steering and put power to the ground and even the majority of the braking. A rear diffuser and wing on a FWD car are there to clean up airflow for less resistance and less drag (thats right on a brick like the MINI a poiler done right cleans up the air flow and recuces the air resistance) but to make the claim rear down force on a FWD MINI under 160 MPH is well I bet you've heard of the fast and the furious movies...

 

How do they compare price wise?

 

roughly 450 (225 pounds) for the motorsport version

JCW spoiler is 568 from Classic MINI before NAM discount (dunno if it applies to JCW)

 

Plus shipping to the US.

 

I'm pretty ignorant about this stuff, but I would have thought that adding more downforce in the rear would reduce oversteer, all other things being equal. If a splitter (assuming it is efficient at creating down force, which somehow I doubt is the case on a Mini) will reduce understeer, why wouldn't the same apply to a rear spoiler and oversteer. Otherwise, I'm confused as to why the Challenge cars run a rear spoiler alone, unless it's just to make them look more the part.

 

just curious as to why you think a splitter wouldn't create downforce? Splitters are one of those things that pretty much always create downforce when designed properly. They block air from going under the car....that causes downforce. Why wouldnt that work on the mini ?

 

I could believe it, but the only ones Ive seen look so small it's hard to imagine they actually do much. Truth is... I have no idea what I'm talking about here.

 

Whoa. Where are the hard numbers that this thing does anything but add to JCW coffers? Where are the test sheets showing how much downforce it creates? (Don't try asking JCW, they will tell you nothing).

There is a difference between a wing and a "spoiler". Your claiming its a spoiler ... which I would tend to thing is true, in disrupting the airflow so it tracks better. A wing actually creates downforce but only at significant speeds. For example, the wing thing on a Boxster is a spoiler, it add NO downforce. The wing on a Cayman IS a real wing. Look at an Exige, that huge rear wing produces 48 pounds of downforce over an Elise helping it go around the Ring quicker than the Elise. I would bet this is a spoiler. How fast are the challenge cars going anyway?

 

I just installed the John Cooper Motorsport aluminum wing last
Friday. It has five different adjustment levels - depending on how
horizontal you want the wing. While I am in NO WAY an aerodynamics
expert, I can honestly tell you the difference you can feel in the
downforce on the rear of the car is amazing. And it looks 100%
better on the MINI in person than in the pictures.

 

Chows I totally agree with you. You'll note I moved from talking about the MINI to generalities; it can be done where the spoiler smoothes air out and helps the MINI brick could benefit from it; but I'm yet to see anyone come out with the claim that their spoiler smooths airflow instead they all claim down force, and well you see how much surface area is required to get 48 lbs. how much is just adding weight high above the CG and far to the back?

ylwjkt- Handling with downforce (or weight; just until I see some wind tunnel #s) how does it help? All the work is done with the front of the car, I want the grip there, rear grip just induces more understeer and rear downforce will take away grip from the front.

And Like I said I think they look awesome, I just doubt the functionality and usefulness of what functionality is there on a FWD car.

 

i would try something out before knocking it and saying it doesnt do much. It's hard to actually imagine how big of a difference just blocking a little air will make.....but they do in fact help.

 

My idea that its function only comes from a very experienced track driver who would only keep the JCW wing/spoiler that he ordered if it proved to be functional (he's not into non-functional parts). He has used his year and years of track experience and states that he has felt a difference after using it on the track multiple times.

It's not on paper or in numbers....but i like real world data better anyways (that's just my opinion though)

 

I am willing to bet it does do something, my only question is whether its "spoiling" the airflow or actually creating downforce. The driver may feel the same effects a 100 mph but at 150 (for example) a wing may be creating significant downforce.

 

Jeez two pages already and all I intended was to point out an alternative mounting method.

 

This seems to happen ohh about weekly, tough I will admit we did get pretty off topic, probably could have started another thread.