09 JCW Track set up - Page 2 - North American Motoring

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09 JCW Track set up

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  #26  
Old 12-27-2017, 09:25 AM
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also, I have a buddy that ran 275's on the front of his brothers R56, pretty popular with SMF crowd, they make it work
 
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mega72 View Post
how close to the coilovers were you?
It was a friend who tried the tires/wheels. I didn’t see the actual fit up. He said that even with a 5mm spacer they were touching the coilovers. The wheels that the R888s are on have 45 ET. On my MINI, even with that offset they still rub in the back, on the inside of the wheel well. So to make those work on my friend’s MINI, with the coilovers, he would need a staggered offset, with the rear being narrower than the front. While that might work for autocross I wouldn’t do it for the track. I think the car would be less stable than I like it to be.
 
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mega72 View Post
also, I have a buddy that ran 275's on the front of his brothers R56, pretty popular with SMF crowd, they make it work
That is a lot of rubber on a MINI.

The 225 R888s look really good on my MINI. I can hardly imagine how a 275 would look on the car.

I have seen posts of people putting 235s on their R56 without rubbing. I am not sure how they have done it. Maybe really stiff springs? I have stock MINI sports suspension springs which allow wheel travel well into the wheel wells.

With this I am just passing along my experience. I understand others have had success where I haven’t. I also haven’t been motivated to figure out how to do it without modifying the car.

There is another issue with larger tires. That is rotating weight, which is is in the worst location (on the outer diameter) and being a taller tire. The 225 R888s makes my car noticeably slower in acceration than my 215 ZIIs. That is a function of the added weight and larger diameter. For me on a long track (WGI) there is almost no difference in track times for those two tires.
 
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:14 AM
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yeah stiff springs, also they run 15" wheels, but you get closer to the trailing arm in the rear with smaller wheels.

I'm going square 15x8 225 hoosier a7's this year for autocross, and 15x8 225 r-s4 again for the track, I'll probably play with the a7's at the track too once they wear out a bit
 
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  #30  
Old 12-28-2017, 03:37 PM
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So you like the Hankooks (R-S4, right?) for the track? Any idea how they compare to the Bridgestone RE71Rs in your size?
 
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:53 PM
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re71r is a lot faster, I use them for autocross & mountain runs

but, they cannot handle HPDE unless you take it easy or cut sessions really short
 
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Old 12-29-2017, 04:58 PM
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LSD or Not?

This is great information, thanks for sharing. I think that I will leave the caster alone until I have more opportunity to track the car.

Another item that crossed my mind was whether the car has an open diff or LSD. At first I assumed all the JCW came with an LSD but then read that it was a factory option. I have the window sticker but there is no mention of the LSD option other than the EDLC, which I presume is an E-diff type system. Now, am I right to assume that it uses an archaic approach of applying braking to the spinning wheel and not the more sophisticated Electronic locking found in higher end cars? Wondering if that might be a good first upgrade along with camber plates and tires....
 
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Old 12-29-2017, 05:28 PM
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it's a huge upgrade, but it's labor intensive
 
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Old 12-29-2017, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JagbuffV12 View Post
This is great information, thanks for sharing. I think that I will leave the caster alone until I have more opportunity to track the car.

Another item that crossed my mind was whether the car has an open diff or LSD. At first I assumed all the JCW came with an LSD but then read that it was a factory option. I have the window sticker but there is no mention of the LSD option other than the EDLC, which I presume is an E-diff type system. Now, am I right to assume that it uses an archaic approach of applying braking to the spinning wheel and not the more sophisticated Electronic locking found in higher end cars? Wondering if that might be a good first upgrade along with camber plates and tires....
Yuck - EDLC - Yuck
Bad BMW, Bad

I didn't know that was an option in '09. What a shame that someone actually checked that box.

You are absolutely right about how it works. It applies the one front brake on the wheel that is trying to spin in a turn. What a bright idea. Take a set of brakes that have been pretty well heated up braking into a turn and then cook them some more trying to keep 210 hp from spinning a wheel in a turn. Keep an eye on your brake pads as this may cook them. I say "may" as it will likely only be a problem in a turn that is an uphill corkscrew, like the Toe at Watkins Glen...because of that turn and the EDLC I went through a set of pads in 2 sessions (Yup, 2 - 30 minute sessions) and then the expense of putting in a real LSD.

As for "first upgrades", in order of my importance:
1) real track brake pads.
2) light weight wheels and better tires
3) camber
4) SS brake caliper pistons
Try the car and see how you like it.
5) If you want to shift the understeer/oversteer characteristics - new rear sway bar.
6) a real LSD
 
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  #35  
Old 12-29-2017, 09:19 PM
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...yes electronic nanny controls can chew up pads in no time and also mess up your line (assuming you know what you are doing) worst all it slows you down.

I appreciate recommendations: 1) I will get new pads and rotors (Brembo, Hawk, EBC ?). 2) Ok, still confused on the tires discussion about what will fit, R71 are good all around tires and I even used them for DEs with good success but Toyos are cheap and better for track work - what's the best pick? (might hold off on another set wheels). 3) yes to camber plates, 4) Not sure I understand, the car has Brembos which seem to be performing quite well even at COTA . I changed the brake fluid to Motul 660 which I also use with good success on the Ferrari (has CCM brakes which get quite hot...price of a brake job is a new MINI lol - frt pads alone are $1.5k and will last two outings at best at COTA!!!). Do you mean the caliper pistons need to be replaced? 5) I think it has 25 mm Hotchkis rear on it right now so probably a good start to tinker. 6) Certainly on the short list, OS Giken as a 1.5 LSD that is priced right.

BTW, also noticed a Mini branded piggy back unit zipped tied to the engine ECU, wonder what that is about..alarm? Will take pictures tomorrow. Really like this car
 
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  #36  
Old 12-30-2017, 06:22 AM
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hawk dtc-60 worked good for me on the track, so did g-loc pads

theres not much choice for stock calipers
 
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  #37  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:20 AM
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G-loc or Carbotech, either will be easier on the rotors. In the Carbotechs I would go with the XP12s or the equivalent in the G-loc. I have also been using the DTC60s with good results on longer tracks and have been running the same pads front and rear which seems to help with keeping the rear in line.

Rotors are rotors; any brand should do. Slotted or plain, not much difference.

Tires - I have had no issues with the RE71s (typically 1g+ corners). I just keep the hot pressure to 39 psi or less. Above that their performance falls off.

Toyos “cheap”? Which ones?

JCW Brembo caliper pistons are a composite of some sort and it has been reported that they may crumble with heavy track use. Typical replacement is the stainless steel piston

Don’t know about the ECU.
 

Last edited by Eddie07S; 12-30-2017 at 07:24 AM. Reason: Added info
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  #38  
Old 12-30-2017, 09:49 AM
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Details on the SS pistons here: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...r-rebuild.html
 
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  #39  
Old 01-04-2018, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by squawSkiBum View Post
That is interesting - I'll have to keep an eye on them and see how they do after repeated use.
 
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:05 PM
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same problem with the 135i brembos, the pistons break down, fix is stainless
 
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  #41  
Old 01-04-2018, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Eddie07S View Post
snip
Toyos “cheap”? Which ones?

JCW Brembo caliper pistons are a composite of some sort and it has been reported that they may crumble with heavy track use. Typical replacement is the stainless steel piston

Don’t know about the ECU.
Sorry, didn't to be flippant about it but a full set of 888 is the price of a rear tire on my other car, hence my comment. That said, I have a set of Kosei K1 that fit the Mini but they are 16" (currently sporting old 205/50/15 Proxes R1), pretty light rims that could be a good track option (best of all they are free).

Any thoughts or comments about going to a -1 set up for the track, slightly taller sidewall but lighter unsprung weight...?
 
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  #42  
Old 01-04-2018, 08:22 PM
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The diff makes a difference

Looping back on the differential issue. I was about to buy one (as a gift for my new to me car for Christmas) and decided to do some testing first. I disconnected all the nanny control and did a couple of "burn outs" that resulted in "11's", including a grass and tarmac slip. Furthermore, in the cold slippery stuff, when it loses traction under load, both wheels are slipping so pretty sure someone put an LSD in there are some point (unless the EDCB is really clever and smooth)....So that's good news
 
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  #43  
Old 01-05-2018, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JagbuffV12 View Post
Looping back on the differential issue. I was about to buy one (as a gift for my new to me car for Christmas) and decided to do some testing first. I disconnected all the nanny control and did a couple of "burn outs" that resulted in "11's", including a grass and tarmac slip. Furthermore, in the cold slippery stuff, when it loses traction under load, both wheels are slipping so pretty sure someone put an LSD in there are some point (unless the EDCB is really clever and smooth)....So that's good news
The ediff is terrible you won't really see the diff difference until you autocross or track days
 
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  #44  
Old 01-06-2018, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JagbuffV12 View Post
Sorry, didn't to be flippant about it but a full set of 888 is the price of a rear tire on my other car, hence my comment. That said, I have a set of Kosei K1 that fit the Mini but they are 16" (currently sporting old 205/50/15 Proxes R1), pretty light rims that could be a good track option (best of all they are free).

Any thoughts or comments about going to a -1 set up for the track, slightly taller sidewall but lighter unsprung weight...?
I get it on the tire price. The same goes for filling the tank with gas for a track day.

Boy, I hope you’re not running 205/50/15 Proxes R1 on 16” wheels.

Depending on the track I go to, I will run either my 205/50/15 RE71Rs for short tracks or my 17” wheels (sporting either the 225-45 R888s or Dunlop ZIIs) for the long track (WGI). I have done a same day, direct comparison between the two sizes of wheels/tires at WGI. The 15s are noticeably quicker in acceleration, which is expected given their substantially smaller diameter and lighter weight (about 12 lbs a wheel/tire). However, where I could run the track in 3rd to 5th with the 17” wheels, I had to add a shift to 6th on the long straight with the 15s. I also had to add an up and down shift sequence in some of the shorter straights with 15s that I did not have to do with the 17s. The net result was no real difference in track time (maybe a tick faster with the 15s, if I did everything perfectly), but the 15s were a lot more work and not worth the effort.

That said, I would say if you have them, run them (the 205/50/16 Proxes R1, that is). The lighter, shorter, and grippier tires will be noticeable more fun.

BTW - the 205-50s have about the same sidewall height as the 225-45s and are only a small fraction of an inch taller than the 215-45. In my selection of tires, the feel is about the same comparing the 205/50/15s to the 225 or the 215-45x17, although of the group the ZIIs are slightly less good.
 
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Old 01-16-2018, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by WayMotorWorks View Post
Nothing better than passing a Porsche with a MINI.
True that! Getting a wave-by from a Corvette is fun too. Whenever I'm on the tail of a more powerful car I imagine the driver cursing to himself, "No way I let that old man in a MINI pass me." It often takes a blue flag to let me pass.

 
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  #46  
Old 01-16-2018, 05:45 PM
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Nicely Done!
 
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Old 01-16-2018, 09:40 PM
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One of my track days at Laguna Seca a guy in a C5 had to point me by in every session. We ended up talking in the paddock and he asked if I had any mods, he was surprised when I told him just suspension and tires. He expected I had a tune and big power. He said that the C5 was a real handful on the track, and wished he had brought his MINI.

I took my son to his first track day for his 17th birthday. He did really well and the last session I got to ride along with him. He ended up behind a guy in a Cadillac ATS who should have given us the point by but didn't. At the end of the session we ended up next to the ATS guy in the paddock, we were chatting and he said he was amazed at how quick the MINI was. I thought "Yeah, and a 17 year old on his first track day was on your tail all session and you should have clued in and pointed him by" but didn't say it. But the highlight of my son's day was the session where he came back with a big grin on his face and said that he got a point by from a 911.

A well set up MINI is great cheap fun on the track.
 
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  #48  
Old 10-31-2018, 02:13 PM
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Continued development of JCW GP2 clone

I have been able to continue the development of my 09 JCW/ GP2 clone. After receiving a new 50mm Dominator turbo from JM turbo, Alta intercooler, 3” exhaust and downpipe, typhoon intake and tune, I quickly realized that the added torque was too much for the stock clutch. So I decided to replace it with an OS Giken clutch and flywheel package which has the benefit of being lighter…while there I figured a limited slip diff was also called for, and again I picked OS Giken. Next items will be a Sneed4Speed roll partial cage 5 point harness and race seat, although I am still planning on using the car on the street so kinda mixed emotion about that. Also, “sunroof delete” to save on those 50 top heavy lbs…before the cage goes in of course!



50mm Dominator

Os Giken 1.5 LSD


OS Giken Sport clutch and flywheel package
 
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Old 11-08-2018, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JagbuffV12 View Post
I have been able to continue the development of my 09 JCW/ GP2 clone. After receiving a new 50mm Dominator turbo from JM turbo, Alta intercooler, 3” exhaust and downpipe, typhoon intake and tune, I quickly realized that the added torque was too much for the stock clutch. So I decided to replace it with an OS Giken clutch and flywheel package which has the benefit of being lighter…while there I figured a limited slip diff was also called for, and again I picked OS Giken. Next items will be a Sneed4Speed roll partial cage 5 point harness and race seat, although I am still planning on using the car on the street so kinda mixed emotion about that. Also, “sunroof delete” to save on those 50 top heavy lbs…before the cage goes in of course!



50mm Dominator

Os Giken 1.5 LSD


OS Giken Sport clutch and flywheel package

which giken clutch combo did you choose ?
 
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Old 11-09-2018, 05:48 AM
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So I am wondering if our engine internals are up to par for that turbo, my tech will not install a larger one on my car as he tells me I am maxed out with stock motor components before I blow up the motor at some point.
Ben
 
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