JCW Genuine Factory JCW or?????
#26
07-26-2017, 05:28 AM
Alliance Member
post #6 - In an attempted to be thorough to OP's question I referenced and clarified how the JCW Countryman was not applicable and was only model which could not be lumped in with others....Unfortunately some folks skim read posts on their blackberry causing this blurb to go viral....
#27
07-26-2017, 12:40 PM
OVERDRIVE
Actually the internals of a Factory JCW are not the same as a regular S....the engine has whole different part number as well. Yes, JCW Tuning after sales kits and those installed at the Depot do have the newer manifold...see below:
Engine
More aggressive ECU tuning
Turbo back exhaust system. The exhaust and catalytic converter have been reworked and enlarged to aid the unrestricted flow and reduction in back pressure. Also NO second cat.
Upgraded turbocharger - larger and strengthened twin-scroll turbocharger and exhaust manifold resulting in a pressure increase from 0.9 to 1.3 bar
Upgraded pistons
Upgraded Getrag transmission
Upgraded clutch and throwout bearing
208hp
Upgraded engine components: The engine is fitted with reinforced and specifically ground pistons as well as a cylinder head with optimized rigidity and modified gasket. The cylinder head wall thickness is increased to reduce potential stress during peak output. The intake valves and valve seat rings are also made of a specially resilient material, and compared to the engine of the MINI Cooper S there is a slight reduction in compression. The air filter, air mass sensor, exhaust system and catalytic converter have been modified so as to achieve a power-enhancing de-throttling on the induction and exhaust side. The through-flow capacity of the clean air duct to the turbocharger has also been increased.
Engine
More aggressive ECU tuning
Turbo back exhaust system. The exhaust and catalytic converter have been reworked and enlarged to aid the unrestricted flow and reduction in back pressure. Also NO second cat.
Upgraded turbocharger - larger and strengthened twin-scroll turbocharger and exhaust manifold resulting in a pressure increase from 0.9 to 1.3 bar
Upgraded pistons
Upgraded Getrag transmission
Upgraded clutch and throwout bearing
208hp
Upgraded engine components: The engine is fitted with reinforced and specifically ground pistons as well as a cylinder head with optimized rigidity and modified gasket. The cylinder head wall thickness is increased to reduce potential stress during peak output. The intake valves and valve seat rings are also made of a specially resilient material, and compared to the engine of the MINI Cooper S there is a slight reduction in compression. The air filter, air mass sensor, exhaust system and catalytic converter have been modified so as to achieve a power-enhancing de-throttling on the induction and exhaust side. The through-flow capacity of the clean air duct to the turbocharger has also been increased.
#28
07-26-2017, 06:27 PM
S model engine is a N14B16A.
JCW model engine is a N14B16C
#29
07-26-2017, 07:45 PM
Very few people know what they are talking about here and I am glad you put the record straight that the JCW is not just a few tricks and bits.
I was aware when I bought mine about these very specific technical details.
It is a serious package that cannot be duplicated.
The same prevails today with GEN 3. You buy a JCW now or you pass. This is as simple.
#30
07-28-2017, 08:34 AM
My car is identical to this with the aero kit and JCW accessories, mine is just red . I paid 17 K with 30,000 miles on it. Absolutely love it! I ended up doing a manic tune, new suspension, and some other goodies. The price they are asking is fair. And honestly, if you like how it looks and how it drives, go for it! When I got mine, it was in awesome condition. It was worth the couple extra bucks compared to some cheaper ones that were paid up.
Last edited by RYANR56; 07-28-2017 at 08:40 AM.
#31
08-02-2017, 11:54 AM
5th Gear
Very few people know what they are talking about here and I am glad you put the record straight that the JCW is not just a few tricks and bits.
I was aware when I bought mine about these very specific technical details.
It is a serious package that cannot be duplicated.
The same prevails today with GEN 3. You buy a JCW now or you pass. This is as simple.
I was aware when I bought mine about these very specific technical details.
It is a serious package that cannot be duplicated.
The same prevails today with GEN 3. You buy a JCW now or you pass. This is as simple.
The heart of it is the upgraded, larger turbo. The S runs at 13psi max, while the fJCW runs at 19psi max. From what I understand, there aren't many street engines running at that boost level. Overboost allows an additional 2-3psi. I believe the S also has an overboost feature, but I'm not sure what that difference is.
I just had my clutch replaced and the friction surface is definitely larger on the fJCW. Also, an odd thing about the Brembo brakes is that with the fJCW option front calipers don't say "Brembo". It has the JCW oval logo. If you buy the big brake upgrade option, that does have the Brembo logo. It's a bit weird and not unlike the difference in the chrome exhaust tips being plain or have in JCW oval logo stamped in.
By the way, if anyone has an '09 fJCW, let me know and I'll add you to the registry!
#32
08-10-2017, 08:40 PM
2nd Gear
I recently bought a 2013 Cooper S with the JCW Tuning Kit. The motoring advisors and mechanics drove it around for kicks and came to the conclusion it was faster and had more horsepower than the JCW Coupe they had in the dealership last year and they aren't sure why. There may have been more done to it than has been let on.
It may not be a factory JCW, but in my opinion the tuning kit makes it a John Cooper Works and that is how John Cooper did it when he started tuning Minis. There was no factory JCW originally. So any Mini with the John Cooper Works badge that has had John Cooper Works components installed on it, for all intents and purposes, is a John Cooper Works.
Now if someone just sticks the badge on there without installing the components that's the equivalent of BMW owners sticking an M badge on their cars.
It may not be a factory JCW, but in my opinion the tuning kit makes it a John Cooper Works and that is how John Cooper did it when he started tuning Minis. There was no factory JCW originally. So any Mini with the John Cooper Works badge that has had John Cooper Works components installed on it, for all intents and purposes, is a John Cooper Works.
Now if someone just sticks the badge on there without installing the components that's the equivalent of BMW owners sticking an M badge on their cars.
#33
08-10-2017, 10:47 PM
5th Gear
Know that none of the internal and external parts that make up the fJCW option are available as dealer or port installed. Also, the JCW kit doesn't have the uprated items that the fJCW option has: head, pistons, bigger clutch if you have the manual or uprated Aisin automatic and the Brembo brakes. That suggests that the JCW kit may not have the durability of the fJCW option and it certainly won't have the same stopping power.
As far as how your car feels, I can think of various explanations but I can't say for sure. The injectors may have been replaced with larger ones that flow more. I haven't seen a torque curve for the JCW kit, but perhaps the delivery is dfferent. If that was the case, you would see it if you had both curves and laid one curve over the other. The fJCW turbo is bigger. It probably spins up just a little bit slower. Has your car been chipped? Time plays tricks on the mind. 8 months or better is a long time to remember something that is very subjective.
Also, from here:
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini...1.3B_1990-2000)
It would seem to indicate that all the Minis that John Cooper's company worked on had internal modifications as well as external. There's no mention of the parts ever being offered in kit form.
As far as how your car feels, I can think of various explanations but I can't say for sure. The injectors may have been replaced with larger ones that flow more. I haven't seen a torque curve for the JCW kit, but perhaps the delivery is dfferent. If that was the case, you would see it if you had both curves and laid one curve over the other. The fJCW turbo is bigger. It probably spins up just a little bit slower. Has your car been chipped? Time plays tricks on the mind. 8 months or better is a long time to remember something that is very subjective.
Also, from here:
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini...1.3B_1990-2000)
It would seem to indicate that all the Minis that John Cooper's company worked on had internal modifications as well as external. There's no mention of the parts ever being offered in kit form.
#34
08-11-2017, 07:22 AM
2nd Gear
Know that none of the internal and external parts that make up the fJCW option are available as dealer or port installed. Also, the JCW kit doesn't have the uprated items that the fJCW option has: head, pistons, bigger clutch if you have the manual or uprated Aisin automatic and the Brembo brakes. That suggests that the JCW kit may not have the durability of the fJCW option and it certainly won't have the same stopping power.
As far as how your car feels, I can think of various explanations but I can't say for sure. The injectors may have been replaced with larger ones that flow more. I haven't seen a torque curve for the JCW kit, but perhaps the delivery is dfferent. If that was the case, you would see it if you had both curves and laid one curve over the other. The fJCW turbo is bigger. It probably spins up just a little bit slower. Has your car been chipped? Time plays tricks on the mind. 8 months or better is a long time to remember something that is very subjective.
Also, from here:
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini...1.3B_1990-2000)
It would seem to indicate that all the Minis that John Cooper's company worked on had internal modifications as well as external. There's no mention of the parts ever being offered in kit form.
As far as how your car feels, I can think of various explanations but I can't say for sure. The injectors may have been replaced with larger ones that flow more. I haven't seen a torque curve for the JCW kit, but perhaps the delivery is dfferent. If that was the case, you would see it if you had both curves and laid one curve over the other. The fJCW turbo is bigger. It probably spins up just a little bit slower. Has your car been chipped? Time plays tricks on the mind. 8 months or better is a long time to remember something that is very subjective.
Also, from here:
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini...1.3B_1990-2000)
It would seem to indicate that all the Minis that John Cooper's company worked on had internal modifications as well as external. There's no mention of the parts ever being offered in kit form.
As for the dealer or port converted, one thing to remember is that the compression ratio on the S, strangely is better than the JCW. 10.5:1 on the S versus 10.25:1 on the JCW. The S therefore is better for tuning. So a port converted S with the full works would be a better platform for modification.
Dont get me wrong, I love the factory JCW. Would love to have one eventually. But for now, I've come incredibly close to what it is like to own a JCW with my S with the tuning kit.
The other great thing about the tuning kit over factory, is that your insurance is lower than a JCW and you don't necessarily have the higher maintenance costs of owning a JCW.
#35
08-11-2017, 09:10 AM
5th Gear
No, the slightly lower compression ratio is due to the fact that the S runs at 13psi boost + about 3psi during overboost. The fJCW runs at 19psi boost + 3psi overboost. The higher the boost, the higher the effective compression ratio. The JCW at 19psi is at the upper end for volume production street cars.
John Cooper Works was created by John Cooper and his son Mike in more recent times. I'm guessing, but I don't think that came along until maybe the late 80's-early-90's.
John Cooper Works was created by John Cooper and his son Mike in more recent times. I'm guessing, but I don't think that came along until maybe the late 80's-early-90's.
Last edited by flatlander_48; 08-11-2017 at 11:08 AM.
#36
08-11-2017, 09:48 AM
2nd Gear
No, the slightly lower compression ration is due to the fact that the S runs at 13psi boost + about 3psi during overboost. The fJCW runs at 19psi boost + 3psi overboost. The higher the boost, the higher the effective compression ratio. The JCW at 19psi is at the upper end for volume production street cars.
John Cooper Works was created by John Cooper and his son Mike in more recent times. I'm guessing, but I don't think that came along until maybe the late 80's-early-90's.
John Cooper Works was created by John Cooper and his son Mike in more recent times. I'm guessing, but I don't think that came along until maybe the late 80's-early-90's.
#37
08-12-2017, 12:57 AM
5th Gear
Works is a common UK term for factory.
Anyway, I have searched and found no evidence that John Cooper ever did customer upgrades in the early days. As far as I know, this is correct:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini...1.3B_1990-2000
Issigonis' friend John Cooper, owner of the Cooper Car Company and designer and builder of Formula One and rally cars, saw the potential of the Mini for competition. Issigonis was initially reluctant to see the Mini in the role of a performance car, but after John Cooper appealed to BMC management, the two men collaborated to create the Mini Cooper. The Austin Mini Cooper and Morris Mini Cooper debuted in September 1961.
========
Sales of the Mini Cooper were as follows: 64,000 Mark I Coopers with 997 cc or 998 cc engines; 19,000 Mark I Cooper S with 970 cc, 1,071 cc or 1,275 cc engines; 16,000 Mark II Coopers with 998 cc engines; 6,300 Mark II Cooper S with 1,275 cc engines. There were no Mark III Coopers and just 1,570 Mark III Cooper S.
Given that the British Motor Corporation built and sold the cars, I don't think they would have appreciated John Cooper doing upgrades on his own as it would have detracted from their sales. Cooper also got royalties on each car that BMC sold under the Cooper and Cooper S names.
I thought that the John Cooper Works business was a part of their Mini dealership, but evidently it was a separate entity created in 2000.
Anyway, I have searched and found no evidence that John Cooper ever did customer upgrades in the early days. As far as I know, this is correct:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini...1.3B_1990-2000
Issigonis' friend John Cooper, owner of the Cooper Car Company and designer and builder of Formula One and rally cars, saw the potential of the Mini for competition. Issigonis was initially reluctant to see the Mini in the role of a performance car, but after John Cooper appealed to BMC management, the two men collaborated to create the Mini Cooper. The Austin Mini Cooper and Morris Mini Cooper debuted in September 1961.
========
Sales of the Mini Cooper were as follows: 64,000 Mark I Coopers with 997 cc or 998 cc engines; 19,000 Mark I Cooper S with 970 cc, 1,071 cc or 1,275 cc engines; 16,000 Mark II Coopers with 998 cc engines; 6,300 Mark II Cooper S with 1,275 cc engines. There were no Mark III Coopers and just 1,570 Mark III Cooper S.
Given that the British Motor Corporation built and sold the cars, I don't think they would have appreciated John Cooper doing upgrades on his own as it would have detracted from their sales. Cooper also got royalties on each car that BMC sold under the Cooper and Cooper S names.
I thought that the John Cooper Works business was a part of their Mini dealership, but evidently it was a separate entity created in 2000.
#38
09-02-2017, 04:13 PM
#39
09-03-2017, 05:50 PM
