Excellent points Erik.

I have never driven one but would like to. My problem is that I just don't care for the looks of the 5 door. Even with a positive test drive I still wouldn't buy one. I just have a funny need to drive something that I like looking at. It's kind of weird I guess. I drive the Coupe cause I like the way it looks. (and drives). If it was ugly, (some people think it is ugly) I wouldn't drive it no matter how it drove. Conversely if the car was the best looking car in the world but drove like crap I wouldn't buy it either.

But I don't care that others drive it. Everyone has there own needs and wants.

 

And in Canada, there is only one type of R available... 4-door hatch fully loaded. I have never liked the look of the 4-door Golf.

 

Interesting choice of words.

They're both great cars. Everyone has their opinion. I'd love to drive one and check it out. The problem is the prices are ridiculous in the area in which I live, kind of like the MINI when it came out. Plus, the sales and service at the local dealer is horrid. I'd never give them my business.

Competition in the market is healthy, for all of us.

Todd

 

The biggest issue I have with the new .:R is that, IMO, it's not a real R. It's a GTI with more boost and AWD. Big deal. It handles like a bigger pig than the GTI is and without the VR6 I wouldn't even consider one. But that's me. I've owned a MkIII Jetta, a MkIV GLI, a B5 Passat, a B5.5 Passat, a MkV Rabbit, a MkV GTI, and a B8 A4 Avant. Of these, the B5 Passat and the B8 A4 Avant are the only two I would replace with a new .:R.

If I was shopping for an .:R it would be a 1G since I think the MkIV is the prettiest.

Yes, there is more aftermarket support, but cheaper parts prices? I'll argue that to the grave and back again. IME, parts for my M3 are less expensive than ANY of my VWs.

But as Pat said, I don't care what someone wants to drive. If you like it, you like it. My GF hates my Clubbie and I'm not a fan of her Focus. I DESPISE my ex-wife's Wrangler but she thinks it's the bees knees. I don't have to drive it, I don't really care.

 

We picked up a brand new R for the wife a few weeks ago. I just happened to call the dealer and someone that pre-ordered it backed out of the deal. We got a white 4 door with Nav and Sunroof (paid sticker). It does NOT handle like a GTI, I should know because I have a 2012 GTI parked right beside it in the garage. The steering and suspension are much more stiff and responsive. Body roll etc is much less than the GTI (GTI handles good already). The brakes are at least a 3rd larger so you can go deeper into the corners before braking. The gearing is also much different and RPM are held longer. The R shares the basic engine block but the intake, turbo etc are all different. The MKVI R would mope the floor with a R32 especially up here at altitude (never impressed with the VR6). With a tune, intake and fuel pump the R is easily pushed above the 300hp mark.

 

Oh no doubt it's a better machine than the R32, but it has no soul IMO. I've driven the .:R extensively as well as the Scirocco R. I would take neither over a Cooper S or a JCW. My E90 M3 is MILES more capable than my JCW, but it's still not anywhere near as much fun. And really, no matter how good a car is, if it's not fun to drive, what's the point?

 

Absolutely if you love what you drive it makes it so much better..

 

For daily driving elements our 1st appreciable fact about the Mini JCW was that it is super Fun & returns huge mpg when driven sanely, which is not always easy, but this little car has a lot of potential for what it is, sure other cars can beat the Mini, yet None will have the fun factor that this low HP car delivers without having to have all it's wheels spinning to actually enjoy the ride... And get 30+ mpg and mix in a little fun too, even better when driving closer to the speed limits... Nothing has that enjoyment delivered, yet we did not buy new, but do what you can afford and enjoy!!

 

The new GP II is coming soon in May, I think that’s a better car to compare it with the Golf R....

 

OK here's my two cents. I have both a 2010 GTI DSG 4 door and a 2010 Cooper S auto with the JCW kit. Both have cloth interiors.

The GTI is a better daily driver. The interior is way nicer. The steering wheel on the GTI belongs on a much more expensive car. Stereo is worlds better (Dynaudio vs stocker on Mini). Turn in is not as good as the Mini nor is the burst of acceleration off the line. But there is hardly any torque steer even if I give it gas in the middle of a turn.

The GTI is quieter and more serene on a long trip. The Mini is more entertaining but eventually you get beat up by all the noise and sharp impacts. The GTI's suspension just feels more compliant.

All in all, the GTI feels like a more complete GT type of car. It is not a sports car. Neither is the Mini.

The positives for the Mini is that it is like a frenetic tiger ALL the time. Super sharp turn in and throttle in the JCW modded automatic just goes when you boot it. So it's tons of fun. It's smaller so you can zip around more easily. It feels more unique.

The negatives are the radio is crap. The plastics are kind of crappy. That crazy freneticism can get tiring on a longer drive. Torque steer in the middle of a turn when you give it the boot can be downright scary if you're not ready for it. Suspension has insufficient compliance. It's noisy almost all the time.

I view the R as a more balanced version of the GTI. There are certainly added value in having AWD. But in my experience AWD also takes away some of the sharpness of the car. I'm not sure the extra $$$ is worth it over a standard GTI. And I actually like the looks of the GTI better.

 

To TheLex

You do not have a true JCW in performance or ability, you have a Auto S model that's has a couple JCW attributes, so I can understand your dislike, a real Works model is far superior to an S and even the GTi, that's silly and to claim the Mini is not a sports car is truly out of touch, tell me a factory stock car that can produce cornering abilities and return great road feel back to the driver, at speeds that a very limited few cars even close to the price can claim in curvy roads up to 100 mph and even more... Seriously outside of straight line drag racing, the Mini really owns so many so called sports cars all of which have much more power, yet None return the fuel efficiency while giving the driver true driving experience very few can deliver as well at Any price, I have some serious roads I would challenge many around, this is a very capable sports car.... Is it perfect no, yet it's quite a capable Mini that many so called expensive sports cars have a very hard time even keeping up with when the road gets curvy.

 

BoostMe, I actually prefer the Auto with the JCW kit. I really dislike the gear shift action of the MCS. Since I live in an area with very heavy traffic, I'm not going to suffer the 1-2 brake, 1-2 brake, 1-2 brake for inordinate lengths of time. Shifting is fun when you WANT to do it. It's a PITA when you're sitting in heavy traffic. Other than being able to manually row your own gears, IMO the auto is quicker in many situations than the stick. Those who have the auto with the JCW kit know what I'm talking about.

You speak about driving on "curvy roads up to 100 mph". Really? If you want to risk your license and put others at risk that's your business. If I'm going to do that kind of speed, I"m taking it to the track. And there, your JCW, genuine or not, is going to be somewhat of a joke compared to all the real track prepared cars that people bring.

Fuel efficiency? Who gives a rat's *** if you want to talk about pure performance?

It sounds like you're trying to justify your ownership of the MCS and JCW MCS. Fine, you have the best car in the world. Enjoy.

As for me, I have 7 cars. Some are not so pricey - like the GTI and MCS. Some are not so cheap. I just wanted to give my two cents on the comparison between the MCS and GTI. I rather doubt the interior/stereo/quality control/materials/etc of the "true" JCW vs a lowly MC make all that much of a difference. The driving experience is largely the same as far as I'm concerned.

 

Seriously, Wow you actually claim that a MC Justa and a JCW with Brembo's and all that comes with a stock Turbo Works model is the same Driving experience between the two........ Wow, then Why do we ALL look to improve most everything we drive and join Forums, there are many cars I truly enjoy, right now I'm on the Mini forum so I'm promoting the brand as I see it, I own many cars that all cost more than a JCW, no bigge, the Mini is still a great little, Fun and fun car to spend money on Modding....

Lex, Relax man, I believe we are all here to enjoy this car and All cars for what they are and the Mini's all have great features and sure quality and layout isn't top grade for a Audi, Mercedes, or Porsche but this little car is Unique and provides enjoyment just going for a ride most anywhere, it's a Fun car...

Oh the Rats *** thing, I'd bet if the mpg of any mini was below 25mpg the brand would Never have been successful!!! Seriously it's part of its allure to the Mini. Not all of us own so many fine cars as you but give us working folk some slack, and I wouldn't know anything about traffic I live where there are No other cars just me on my own roads I paved for my speeding pleasures, Kidding...See relax we all sometimes deal with a few Cars in heavy traffic too.... Oh and my Mini is the Best in my world, that's what mods Do...

 

I have driven a 2008 R32, 2012 Golf R, and a 2009 JCW. I think the best handling car off the showroom floor is the JCW. Best quality interior is the Golf R and its amazing Autobahn seats. The quality of the R is outstanding.

The JCW is also faster off the line and has a crisper turnin. It's ride is also choppier due to its shorter wheelbase.

The R has better long drive and daily driver qualities and I find it to be the better all around car. With a tune and APR exhaust/intake parts, the R is going to be a better performing car. The AWD is great but comes with a 160 - 180 lb penalty.

All in all, I enjoy the JCW more than the R. Its faults are its personality strengths and I am looking to buy a JCW over the R.

If the JCW GP becomes available, the debate will be over for me.

Both cars are fantastic from my experience and either one will be a long term garage spot holder for me.

 

I've said it a number of times already but I'm going to say it again. I owned an 08 GTI. I own a '10 M3 and a '12 JCW Clubman. The M3 is MIIIIIIILES better in build quality, fit and finish, and capability. The leather in it sucks all kinds of ***. It gets ATROCIOUS mileage. Yes, when buying gas at almost 1.80 EURO per LITER, it's a consideration. The MINI is louder, and doesn't use materials of the quality of the M3 but you know what, most days I prefer to drive the MINI. It's more fun. I don't have to gas up every other day. As a DD both are great but I prefer the MINI as my DD. The M3 walks all over the R in every way possible. If I'd take the MINI over my M, I'll sure as hell take it over the R.

 

Actually BoostMe, what I said was that there's not a world's difference between the MCS and the JCW. They use for the most part, the same kind of crappy interior trim, the build quality is the same, and the cars feel substantially similar.

The difference between the MCS (especially with the JCW engine kit) and the factory JCW are not all that great. Don't believe me? Read this: http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/11/...i-vs-stage-ii/

Bottom line - the two cars feel substantially similar with performance differences that are mostly discernable at the track. But then again, if you're a track junkie, I doubt you'd be tracking a stock factory JCW.

Sure it's a fun car. I would not purchased one if it were not fun. But the OP asked about how the Mini compares to the VW and I thought I'd throw my opinion in the ring since I own both a GTI and a MCS (with the JCW engine kit).

As for gas mileage - my point was if you're tearing up the roads at up to 100 mph as you claimed, then your mpg isn't going to be great anyway. Most people driving at those kind of speeds aren't thinking gas mileage. But yes, the Mini gets better mpg than the GTI.

A final note. For those who feel only a manual transmission equates to a sports car, most of the world's sports car manufacturers are now offering auto/manuals i.e. the flappy paddle shifter. Even Formula 1 is now all auto/man transmissions. Here's an article about Mini's future transmissions: http://www.motoringfile.com/2012/04/...on/#more-23791

BTW, the DSG the GTI is a blast.

I'm going out for a drive.

 

At 100MPH on the autobahn (about 70% of my commute) I return 27MPG combined. Pretty awesome in my book.

I had DSG on my GTI and I DESPISED it. I didn't get the manual because I didn't like the VERY noticeable change in the clutch when the AC was on so I went with the DSG. The DSG was a large reason I sold the car. It's GREAT on the track. Anywhere else, it sucked. It was jerky at low speeds and hunted too much when downshifting. Overall, I can't recommend the DSG. I love that the R is only available with a manual in the US. To be fair, I hate ALL of the automated manuals. M-DCT, Ferrari's F1 gearbox, Porsche's PDK (which is essentially DSG), none of them are great except on a track.

All of this is, of course, IMO. YMMV

 

@QS I must say, the V8 M3 is such a awesome car and has huge handling ability, a world benchmark for many yrs for a nearly perfect handling car with balance in power and handling with driver feedback like a drivers car should be and it seems to me the manual trans is part of its appeal that requires some skill to really enjoy the car when the road or track allows, one day I will make it to the Ring and make many laps, I have Airforce friends who have taken laps in rental cars and can only wait til that day arrives, it's on my bucket list of things to do.... The Mini truly is a unique ride that in ways is a benchmark for fwd compact cars to strive for, yet it has much to improve upon yet is Sooo fun it's somehow OK cause of the smiles it delivers, just differently than the M3 does with more power and handling... Enjoy those two sweet rides.... The M with its high rpm's sounds Awesome too!!!

I did get a few gifts from the Ring though, hoping my next Hat is 1 I actually purchase, hahaha

 

I love having a manual for a street every day driver car but... If I had a dedicated track car, I would want it to have a flappy paddle gearbox.

 

I agree the current M3 is a great car, but it is just become too big looking for my taste. Probably why I loved the 1M so much - too bad they stopped making it and it was also out of my price range. V8s are cool, but I still think an inline 6 is still my preference.

 

I thought the same until I bought it. OMG, it drives SO much smaller than it is. I mean REALLY small. Size-wise, to me at least, it drives and an E36 M3, which is impressive to say the least. I DO like the sound of the I6 and the fact that it get FAR better mileage but the obscene amount of thrust, at ANY point in the rev range, really is something that needs to be experienced.

I really wanted a 1M but I couldn't get an allocation and TBH, the fact that BMW STILL can't figure out how to build a HPFP turned me off.

 

You are comparing a 36K R and 41K JCW to a 70K M3(all equally equip as possible)???

 

vw's are so bland and boring lol

 

The new Golf's are kind of bland, but the fit and finish of the interior in my wife's TDI Golf is miles better than the Mini. The materials are nicer and there are no rattles, etc. The interior of the Mini is the one thing that really gets to me about the car.

 

I think the materials could definitely be much better for the cost of some of our Mini's and ours do not rattle at all, yet I hear this complaint often, which I attribute this to the Friday build day quality, yet it would be nice to have more real leather and higher quality materials yet that is not always the lightest material when weight is a concern.... I just truly enjoy driving the Mini and can't get over how efficient these cars are, the JCW is amazing for a fun little daily driver...