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To replace the front main seal you do not need to lock the crankshaft, camshafts, engine or flywheel (these are all locked at the same time, but in different places). You only need to lock the crankshaft and camshafts when you replace the crankshaft sprocket or the camshaft sprockets or VANOS sprockets/tensioners inside the engine. You can replace the front main seal without going into the engine. If you are replacing the front main seal you need to take off the crank pulley which can be done via removing the 3 small bolts (NOT THE LARGE BOLT IN THE MIDDLE, see Lex2008 below) on the crank pulley (aka harmonic balancer). Once the crank pulley is removed then you have access and can remove and install the new front main seal.
Last edited by valle; 12-07-2019 at 03:34 AM.
Reason: Added extra clarity or warning.
Well I had no luck releasing the tension to get the belt off in an attempt to replace the seal.
Tried with a PVC pipe and suspension fork from the bottom with a jack but I couldn't get the arm high enough to engage the lock pin. It would get to a certain point then it would just start lifting the engine before I ever got close to being able to lock it. I then tried to remove the pass headlight but the bottom left (looking at the front) bolt seems to have stripped and doesn't come out o at that point I just gave up on it.
My plan is to replace the belt so could I cut the one on there now, release the pull cable, pull the damper, replace the seal and then put the new belt on? What I am wondering is do I even need to lock the tensioner arm to replace the belt if I just cut the existing one?
Definitely you need that tool to release tension and it needs to be done from below.
I've tried large wrenches with no luck.
You can cut the belt yes. It won't effect anything. When you get the belt tensioner tool just lock the tensioner in the open position. It has a spring loaded pin to lock it 'open'. Then install bent and release tension with the tool.
Actually you don't need to cut the belt. Just remove the three crank pulley bolts and knock the pulley loose. You will need the tensioner tool to get it all back on however. But this way you save the belt.
Don't forget to pull the tab all the way out on the friction wheel. It makes it easier to pull the belt out and back in.
@Lex2008 I understand how it all works I just couldn't get the tensioner high enough to line the pin up with whatever it seats in (a hole?) . Oe it was just late, I was tired and hungry and over it at that point. How far up does the tensioner go to lock it? 2-3"? Because thats all it seemed to go but the pin didn't seem to line up with anything at that point.
Oh and for anyone wondering how to release it good video here:
It's tough to get that stupid locking pin to cooperate. You gotta put one hand on the pin and push the belt tensioner tool with the other hand at the same time or have a helper push the pin into place to lock it .
I got the belt off and the dampener but now I can get the seal out. I tapped on the top but it didn't move the bottom at all. It seems to be pretty stuck. Since I am not reusing the seal is there an easy way to destroy it and get it out?
Neve rmind just got it off. But what a ***** it is.
I got the belt off and the dampener but now I can get the seal out. I tapped on the top but it didn't move the bottom at all. It seems to be pretty stuck. Since I am not reusing the seal is there an easy way to destroy it and get it out?
Neve rmind just got it off. what a ***** it is.
Glad you got it out. They can be challenging to remove for sure! There is no way to remove without damaging them.
Make sure you put the new one in very deliberately. If its crooked, it cannot be pulled back out without damaging it, only pushed farther in.
I got it in ok and no leaks yet. I did order a second FELPRO seal just in case I messed this one up. I also ordered a new URO pulley which showed up last night after I was all done so I didn't get a chance to install it. Is anyone replacing the pulley itself? On the original one the rubber on the back is a little worse for wear but not sure it matters all that much.
I dont have a MINI anymore, that was a long time ago. This is all for my wife who has a silver white metallic.
I got it in ok and no leaks yet. I did order a second FELPRO seal just in case I messed this one up. I also ordered a new URO pulley which showed up last night after I was all done so I didn't get a chance to install it. Is anyone replacing the pulley itself? On the original one the rubber on the back is a little worse for wear but not sure it matters all that much.
I dont have a MINI anymore, that was a long time ago. This is all for my wife who has a silver white metallic.
If its your wife's and you're maintaining it, its yours!!!
FelPro is nice because it comes with a plastic installation guide.
I installed an aftermarket pulley/dampener and it fell apart and shredded the belt! I posted about it. How many miles on your pulley?
1. raise vehicle
2. remove front passenger wheel
3. remove wheel well liner
4. remove belt (can be a pain in the butt)
5. remove 3 torx bolts from balancer (NOT THE CENTER HUB BOLT)
6. remove balancer pulley
7. remove seal with pick (can be tough)
8. tap in new seal
go in reverse order.
turns out the timing chain is stretched and the work i did was just enough to get it to throw the codes. 12 hrs labor and $400 in parts. relieved what i did didn't cause it, but upset my friend has to make a decision about this car now. :/
Spoiler
Replace tensioner or just like mine I just put it in brake kleen as bought car used and he never changed oil and boom tensioner working but timing chain not very hard timing tool locking set not bad price on Ebay or amazon not a mechanic just a love for twisting wrenches
Today I tackled the job of replacing the front crank seal on a 2008 mini hatch base model for a friend.
A bit of background on myself. I am a muscle car guy. I work on alot of cars and trucks, diesels included. I'm a mechanical engineer with a nice shop with a lift. Working on cars has been a great hobby I've enjoyed since I was 15 (I'm 27) I have never worked on a German car before, so when my friend asked me to replace her leaking crank seal on her car, I obliged thinking, hey how bad can it be? lol
It should have been easy, but I made the mistake of removing the center hub bolt on the balancer, which I didn't know also held the drive timing gear for the over head cams. At this point I realized there was a possibility the crank had come out of time with the cams mechanically. I was supposed to just remove the 3 torx male bolts around the center hub bolt. doh.
I scoured the web for a timing procedure, but couldn't find one, and I doubted the bentley books got that in depth. Thankfully my friend went to Wyotech, had worked as a honda service tech for years, and is currently a diesel mechanic for Copper Mountain working on their snow cats (I live in Houston). I called him up and he was able to pull up the service manuals for this type of procedure. This is where I realized why people are nervous about working on BMW's and Minis.
To check timing, one must have a plethora of special tools to mount to the head and align with each cam's flat spots. Thankfully, it had pictures to do a visual spot check to make sure the timing was roughed in prior to hooking any special tools up. At first, I thought I was screwed. It said "set #1 cylinder to TDC and look for the "EX" and "IN" cam marks to point upward" (and the #1 lobes were to point out at 90* a certain way as well). The timing was COMPLETELY off and my heart sank. I asked myself what I had gotten into.
Then I read it again and realized that it said "timing is set NOT with #1 TDC" but "set pistons all to 90*". So I had to pull the plugs and drop in some metal rods (I used old Ford 5.0 pushrods :) and even out the piston heights so I knew they were at 90*. Then I checked the cam marks and sure as ****, the IN and EX were up, and the lobes looked good.
So I went back to my original repairs and replaced the seal and the valve cover gaskets. I put it all back together and she fired right up. I started to let my thoughts get to me and that the engine was noisy. I looked up countless videos on youtube and it seems all these engines have a bit of valve noise. I had a friend come by and listen and everything sounded good. I was just fretting over nothing.
The car was running fine, idling fine and I didn't have any leaks from the repairs I made BUT the check engine light came on. I cleaned up my mess, putzed around the neighborhood in the car, and everything looked good except for the check engine light. Drove it to Oreillys to check the codes it was throwing. It was throwing cam position codes (P0011 and P0015 or something). GREAT. My heart sank again. I had the guy clear the codes, figuring they'd come right back, but they haven't.
So I drove it back home with varying revs and it seems to be running fine, without the codes returning. Should they come back, I have to make the decision if I should purchase the special tools to set the timing perfectly, or just pay mini to mechanically time the engine (I will probably do the latter).
I wrote this story because I used alot of information on this forum today and should someone else get in a pickle as I did, I wanted them to have a reference of what I did. I won't post here alot. I'm on enough forums as it is. I did learn a valuable lesson. THESE CARS SUCK TO WORK ON. I'll stick to my Ford pushrod engines.
Send me a PM if you are in the same boat or have questions about timing these engines. I have learned alot today about them.
Brand new newbie and wondering how to get my 08 hatch timed. I too pulled that center bolt thinking as long as I didn't jump the timing chain I couldn't get it out of time. Well here I sit with no car???
Today I tackled the job of replacing the front crank seal on a 2008 mini hatch base model for a friend.
A bit of background on myself. I am a muscle car guy. I work on alot of cars and trucks, diesels included. I'm a mechanical engineer with a nice shop with a lift. Working on cars has been a great hobby I've enjoyed since I was 15 (I'm 27) I have never worked on a German car before, so when my friend asked me to replace her leaking crank seal on her car, I obliged thinking, hey how bad can it be? lol
It should have been easy, but I made the mistake of removing the center hub bolt on the balancer, which I didn't know also held the drive timing gear for the over head cams. At this point I realized there was a possibility the crank had come out of time with the cams mechanically. I was supposed to just remove the 3 torx male bolts around the center hub bolt. doh.
I scoured the web for a timing procedure, but couldn't find one, and I doubted the bentley books got that in depth. Thankfully my friend went to Wyotech, had worked as a honda service tech for years, and is currently a diesel mechanic for Copper Mountain working on their snow cats (I live in Houston). I called him up and he was able to pull up the service manuals for this type of procedure. This is where I realized why people are nervous about working on BMW's and Minis.
To check timing, one must have a plethora of special tools to mount to the head and align with each cam's flat spots. Thankfully, it had pictures to do a visual spot check to make sure the timing was roughed in prior to hooking any special tools up. At first, I thought I was screwed. It said "set #1 cylinder to TDC and look for the "EX" and "IN" cam marks to point upward" (and the #1 lobes were to point out at 90* a certain way as well). The timing was COMPLETELY off and my heart sank. I asked myself what I had gotten into.
Then I read it again and realized that it said "timing is set NOT with #1 TDC" but "set pistons all to 90*". So I had to pull the plugs and drop in some metal rods (I used old Ford 5.0 pushrods :) and even out the piston heights so I knew they were at 90*. Then I checked the cam marks and sure as ****, the IN and EX were up, and the lobes looked good.
So I went back to my original repairs and replaced the seal and the valve cover gaskets. I put it all back together and she fired right up. I started to let my thoughts get to me and that the engine was noisy. I looked up countless videos on youtube and it seems all these engines have a bit of valve noise. I had a friend come by and listen and everything sounded good. I was just fretting over nothing.
The car was running fine, idling fine and I didn't have any leaks from the repairs I made BUT the check engine light came on. I cleaned up my mess, putzed around the neighborhood in the car, and everything looked good except for the check engine light. Drove it to Oreillys to check the codes it was throwing. It was throwing cam position codes (P0011 and P0015 or something). GREAT. My heart sank again. I had the guy clear the codes, figuring they'd come right back, but they haven't.
So I drove it back home with varying revs and it seems to be running fine, without the codes returning. Should they come back, I have to make the decision if I should purchase the special tools to set the timing perfectly, or just pay mini to mechanically time the engine (I will probably do the latter).
I wrote this story because I used alot of information on this forum today and should someone else get in a pickle as I did, I wanted them to have a reference of what I did. I won't post here alot. I'm on enough forums as it is. I did learn a valuable lesson. THESE CARS SUCK TO WORK ON. I'll stick to my Ford pushrod engines.
Send me a PM if you are in the same boat or have questions about timing these engines. I have learned alot today about them.
Originally Posted by valle
To replace the front main seal you do not need to lock the crankshaft, camshafts, engine or flywheel (these are all locked at the same time, but in different places). You only need to lock the crankshaft and camshafts when you replace the crankshaft sprocket or the camshaft sprockets or VANOS sprockets/tensioners inside the engine. You can replace the front main seal without going into the engine. If you are replacing the front main seal you need to take off the crank pulley which can be done via removing the 3 small bolts (NOT THE LARGE BOLT IN THE MIDDLE, see Lex2008 below) on the crank pulley (aka harmonic balancer). Once the crank pulley is removed then you have access and can remove and install the new front main seal.
well I should have joined this forum first cause now I have serious problems and I'm afraid I need a new motor. If anyone can help please hmu. Thanks.
Glad you posted this because I too noticed would happen that the timing will be off if center hub bolt is pulled off is the rod itself drives the camshaft. Woooops! I needed to anyways pull the hub off so I can replace my timing chain. Acquiring the cam positioning tool saves you a lot of headaches locks the timing so you get inside the engine pull out the timing chain. Hope my two cents helps others to be careful when messing with the hub bolt drives the camshaft.
Buy/Rent the install tool or understand how seal functions if you don't want leaks
Compared to any car I've ever owned, the technical details of my r56 outside of the service manual is some of the most confusing and has so much opinion and assumptions in it as opposed to facts and engineering. If any new people stumble into this stickied topic, hopefully I can save you from a lot of trial and error, at least for this job that should be one of the easy ones on Minis.
Originally Posted by Lex2008
Corteco 2702099 or Felpro TCS 46127. The Felpro unit comes with the neat disposable plastic guide for proper installation. The Corteco has some flexible webbing around the inner center ring that surrounds the crank seal like a condom.
A condom effect is exactly what you DON'T want on the seal. That's the whole reason the installation tool exists and why they tell you to lube the TOOL in the service notes. Don't lube the outside of the seal, but do lube the tool so the inner web/flange of the seal smoothly slips down it and onto the shaft without binding/creasing/flipping/etc. Pressure from the engine will then push on that and will push it even harder against the shaft. If it got tweaked at all when being installed, the pressure will of course seak out the weakest point and eventually fail instantly or prematurely depending on how rough you were when installing. (Side note: I think the Corteco is a better seal precisely because they have a nice inner seal that's smaller diameter(more likely to seal on worn/scratched shafts), but since nobody buys the tool, it's installed like a condom and points belt-side, or gets tweaked more often because it's harder to get it going the right way without the tool)
See my scribbles if it's not clear enough.
PS - of course make sure to polish any surface rust or install the seal slightly forward or back if there's a groove from an old seal being in there too long and not doing oil changes before the ridiculous mini recommended 10-15k. Or just buy cheap set of timing tools and swap the hub if yours is questionable.
These newer PTFE seals require a very specific install procedure or otherwise will eventually result in a leak. DO NOT let oil or grease come into contact with the PTFE lip when installing over a dry crankshaft. Furthermore, they say to manually rotate the crankshaft after install and let the car sit for a few hours before starting the engine. I didn’t follow these instructions the first time and it eventually started leaking.
These newer PTFE seals require a very specific install procedure or otherwise will eventually result in a leak. DO NOT let oil or grease come into contact with the PTFE lip when installing over a dry crankshaft. Furthermore, they say to manually rotate the crankshaft after install and let the car sit for a few hours before starting the engine. I didn’t follow these instructions the first time and it eventually started leaking.
Actually they don't have a very specific procedure, people just need to rent or invest in the tool to put them on or understand how the seal works and install it taking that into consideration. The seal is still a normal rubber seal we've seen for decades, but it has that ptfe "wiper" that is essentially a high-temp, self-lubricating plastic that works really well, but it won't work well if directions on how to install it aren't followed and it isn't perfectly round anymore.
I'm not saying the oil part really matters if you're using a good condition installation tool and installing on a clean shaft, but the light oiling is more of a safeguard to have consistent results on any care you install on, even if you're rushing, etc. If any scratches or debri on tool, shaft, or maybe screwing in too fast, then it will more than likely slip over just fine instead of momentarily getting caught and maybe making a split or crease in the ptfe part. If somehow that still doesn't make sense, maybe think of an air hockey puck on a table with very low air or something. It will kind of go, but if it hits minor imperfections the front could catch and it could change directions or get stuck momentarily. Oil is like a puck on the proper amount of air and it's able to glide over minor imperfections easily.
The instructions from Mini were posted earlier in the thread: From Mini service manual
LOL, and Mini isn’t known for making errors in recommendations like 10k mile oil changes? I’ll stick to the what the actual seal manufacturers state than take my chances on possibly outdated Mini instructions.
The whole seal is going to be coated with oil as soon as you run the engine... A little bit on the tool to make sure it slides on uniformly onto the dry shaft is different than putting oil on the outside and inside of a seal that people tend to do. There's normally a thin oil residue on the shaft when most people install anyways since nobody really sprays alcohol or brake cleaner in there either. They just don't want you to coat it like a "normal" seal and make the lip too pliable requiring it to dry out more or need more manual rotations of the engine to seal properly. If the back side of the sealing lip is still dry and you spin the engine couple times once on, you'll be totally fine.
The odds of a seal not sealing because of a slightly more slippery installation tool vs the seal not coming off tool and onto the shaft just right are miniscule.
Keep in mind I'm referring to using the official tool and a light coat of oil as described would likely be mostly squeegee'd off as it passes the seam of the tool and the shaft. If not using the tool and just going from the plastic applicator(if yours has one), then no oil is preferred way, but if shaft isn't "like new" and shiny, I'd still probably leave it with the surface slickness after cleaning with a rag vs using alcohol to make it completely dry. Most important part is the tool and/or the plastic applicator to keep the rear wiper protected and not having visible(excessive) amount of oil on anything.
That’s what I meant by a “very specific install” method. Most, (including myself with my first crankshaft seal install)would not know about a dry crankshaft and not using any kind of lubricant when installing a PTFE seal. From my recent seal install, it was actually fairly easy with the Mini install tool and plastic installation sleeve without any lubricant.
12-04-2019, 02:23 AM
) and even out the piston heights so I knew they were at 90*. Then I checked the cam marks and sure as ****, the IN and EX were up, and the lobes looked good.
