first time posting in this track section...hi all.. 2016 was the year i became addicted to DE's....it's essentially changed how i wanted to mod the car from aesthetics to not giving a sh*t as long as i can run the track well. she still looks great, but my focus is improving my track runs everytime i go.

one thing that has me pretty stumped is on the wheels. i currently run a set of 18x8's on my 2014 MCS (3rd Gen). i originally got the wheels for looks but they were also light enough that i could toy around on the track. i'm running 215/40's, which are just enough of a stretch that the reaction is pretty spot on. after this past season, i decided that a) an 18" wheel is too big and b) i need dedicated track wheels.

this is where the confusion lies. the mini in general is a small car. the cars i hang with are all at a different level (M3's, Corvettes, etc..) and they go for the "widest possible wheel and tire" they can fit.

does anyone have any insight as to what is an ideal width for both tires and wheels for our cars? i'm looking at 17x8's on 215/40s again but then i wondered would it matter at all if i dropped down to 17x7.5...and if i did should i keep it 215 or drop down to 205's...does ANY of this matter? if i kept it 17x8, should i push the envelope @ 225 width? i tend to steer to the miata forums as they track a lot and are also light and most like to pair up 8's with 215's.

appreciate the input. i know there are differences on width between tires, so this is more of a generalization. fwiw, i may consider going with RE71's to start the season off (again, dedicated track tire).

 

I run 15 x 9s on my R53 race car.

The smaller the diameter wheel the better, the wider the wheel and tire the better.

 

15x7 or 15x8 or 15x9.... whatever you can fit.... lighter and wider is better..... bigger isn't always better as it increases unsprung weight which reduces agility/handling... strive for the maximum contact patch with the least weight.

I've been running 15x7 BBS forged wheels 10.2 lbs each x 5 years with 225/45-15 ... love em... smaller diameter increases gearing and lowers car ~ 1/2 inch

 

unfortunately, the f56's with the BBK only support a minimum of 17"...i'm not a fan of it. i'm pretty much limited to 17" tall...i think the smallest width i could go is 7" and the widest is 8"...so my question there is.....does going with 7, 7.5, or 8" truly matter. can either of you say "you NEED to get 8" or can you say "whichever weighs less".

because there is a wheel i'm looking at and at 7" wide, it's about 16.5 lbs...at 7.5" it's 18.4lbs and at 8" it's 19.8 lbs. this would lead be to go with either 7 or 7.5....but with 7 i'm going back to 205's....where as 7.5 can put me at 215's....is it better to be wider at 7.5/215's or is it better to be lighter with the 7" wide wheel but running 205's...or is it the best of both worlds doing 7" wide on pinched 215's...which i understand would bring more flex and less response in the turns.

i'd love to try and fit 15's or 16's but these BBK's have me stuck at that size. i almost feel like taking them off...

all this is a learning experience so appreciate the constructive feedback/criticism.

Marco

 

Alan,
hi. was following your notes on another thread and realized my questions are something that you guys deal with daily...there isn't really a big deal between going 7" wide or 8" wide. in your opinion, is it good or bad to run 7" wide with 215's? this would give me close to the widest width while going with a light option wheel.

 

I'm no expert on track work, but I suspect you're overthinking things.

First, you can't "win" a DE. It's about driver improvement, not lap time improvement. Important distinction.

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As for the tire / wheel questions, I'd rank things in this order of importance:
1. Compound
2. Wheel width
3. Tread width
4. Weight

Tire compound is going to be your biggest single factor to lap times. A skinny Hoosier will be better than a wide all-season in anything except standing water.

Next I picked wheel width, as that's how much tread you can feasibly support.

Tread width slightly less important, as I'd take a 225 on a 8.5" over a 235 on a 7.5" any day of the week.

Weight matters for sure, but most setups are going to weigh within a few lbs of each other. Not enough to be noticeable to most DE drivers, at least compared to the other more important stuff above. As long as you don't try and run some 75lb chrome spinner dubs on the track I wouldn't even fret over weight for DE use.

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So I'd focus first on getting the car to where it's fun, consistent from session to session, and reliable. THEN focus not on what to do to the car to lower your lap times, but instead focus on your driving on how to improve your lap times with what you've got. Remember if Lewis Hamilton hopped in your car he'd blow you lap time out of the water. Not because of any special physical abilities, just with skill acquired from a lifetime dedicated to practice and improvement. Instruction, data acquisition, etc will set you on the right path.

Car mods get 1 car faster. Driver mods make every future car you drive faster.

Good luck, and have fun.

 

It's a trade-off. I prefer the most grip I can get for cornering, so I would run the 8" wheels. The 215s on the 8" wide wheels will give more grip than when pinched on the 7" wide wheels.

If your concerned about dyno numbers or drag racing run the 7" wide wheels with 205s.

 

not concerned on dyno numbers nor drag racing. i'm really enjoying DE's and feel the way to improve my times are at the turns.

Thanks.

 

Burger,
thanks for the information. yes, i realize i'm overthinking things....it's a habit...especially since this is just hobby. ultimately, like you said,it's about learning how to be a better driver. my season 2 is going to focus on becoming that...a better driver...i'm leaning towards 17x8's on 215, similar to what i'm currently on except right now i'm on 18x8's.

 

Do it. This may p*ss alot of people off but IMO BBKs are overkill on these cars for DEs/track days (racing's another story). A good, aggressive track pad (i.e. Carbotech XP12/14) and good hi-temp fluid like Motul is all you need, and you'll be able to go faster on smaller, lightweight wheels/tires. I use Kosei 15x7 K4rs (10.4#) with B'stone RE71Rs in 205/50 for track days and couldn't be happier--smaller tires are cheaper too! Plus, since you're a relative track novice you'll learn how to use the brakes (as well as how NOT to use them) to maintain your momentum. Years ago an instructor told me that if you can lock a wheel you've got enough brake--he was driving the daylights out of an E30M3 with stock brakes and aggressive pads and had NO problems braking!

Gary

 

I know that this is a bit of a thread revival, but I felt it important to bring up a few things.

1. The added heft and pure power of the F56 cars really puts them in a different realm than the R53, especially MarcoPolos tuned car. My car has the simple NM module on low and I can climb the speedometer so fast it has almost gotten me in trouble.

2. The stock brakes on the F56 never truly inspired confidence like my friend's R53 does. They are very competent and braking the car, but feel overwhelmed easily. This may be fixable with pads, but with the relative cheap cost of the JCW BBK, you can get a lot more thermal capacity too, which I think it useful on the F56, as I have made my brakes too hot for my comfort on multiple occasions.

3. Moving from 7" et54 wheels to 7.5" et45 wheels with the same 205 Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3+ 205, made a huge difference on my car, the car lets the rear end go much smoother now. I can also tell it will happen now and am much more prepared for it.

 

I would choose 15x8 10 times before I were to pick big brakes, I view big brakes as mostly cosmetic on the track it's all about the pads and the brake ducting.

are the F56 really any faster on the track? I've only been on the track at the same time as one of them, and it was very slow but the track is all driver not car.

 

I personally feel it is.

Also, are there any 15x8 5x112 wheels? Tirerack puts the lowest weight wheel they have as a 16x7 OZ Ultraleggera which are 14.8 lbs. Next is a 17x7.5 Enkei Racing weighing 15.15 lbs.

While I generally agree with nice wheels and tires over brakes, I feel we have to deal with a different world.

 

the hp/weight is almost the same isnt it? I'm not sure how it could be faster, how many track weekends have you got on yours? Do you run with nasa-southeast? I do a bunch with them.

HP does not matter much, I'm faster than 400 hp mustangs if they cant drive, hell this z06 I pointed by sunday has 650 hp, not only do I catch him at oak trere (he is not doing a fast line) I start to close the gap again going into the hogpen, of course the next straight he is gone

 

i dont mind reviving this thread. frankly it's all a learning experience for me. i ended up going with 17x7.5 NM RSe05 wheels @ 16.5lbs on 215-45 R888R's. between my last event last year and my first event this year I shaved 3 seconds off one track (lightning NJMP) and 13 seconds off the 2nd track (thunderbolt NJMP).

i had originally been on carbotech XP8's on stock calipers. they handled great but stress cracks formed and i was hitting 900 degrees once off-track. assumption was made that on track at my peak was going over 1400 degrees so the next step was to either upgrade pads or upgrade bbk. seems silly but as i was looking at the XP10's i figured "spend 300 on xp10's and still deal with heat issues or just go for the bbk and go with a more stable brake setup". the latter is what i went for. my stock are also single piston, so i was seeing uneven wear on the pads.
also, the quick swap feature of the BBK is significantly more convenient for me. i use stock pads with my 18's for daily driving and swap out the carbotech/g-loc's when i'm at the track with the 17's. to be able to jack up the car and pop a pad out quickly is so much easier than pull the caliper up.

again, all silly excuses, but when bundled together, was a worthwhile investment for me. i will never know how the car could have handled with stock calipers and stronger pads. it's hard to turn back now though.

 

I am glad you like your brake set up, because I have chosen to do the same thing. It's a bit too late for me too.

I do not yet go to events, but I am interested in starting. I also didn't realize we were in the racing section when I started talking here.

The car may not be faster around a track, but to me, and my stop watch, it's much faster in a straight line. I feel that the massive amount of heat my brakes have after a hard drive to be a bit scary, and since MINI has so conveniently put together such a great package, (other than the calipers being so wide.) it's hard to pass up.

 

Bigger rotors hold more heat but you still need ducting to remove the heat

Torque from rotor/pad design/size/type is not the same problem as excessive heat, look at the venting the factory mini team, or any serious track car uses

 

agreed...not sure if you knew or noticed, the stock F56-S has brake ducts built into the bumper. it's a great feature of the car and i can only assume that with the increase in power over 1st/2nd gens, mini thought it was better to include it?

 

power has nothing to do with it, the increase in weight probably does though