Hey all,

Just got the latest SCCA FastTrack yesterday and noticed that the MCS John Cooper Works has been added to the stock class exclusion list... that means as expected all JCW cars will be bumped into the Street Modified Class (still on DOT tires) or into one of the full out MOD classes.. a La Franken Cars...LOL... IF... the regular Cooper JCW kit was available stateside it would most likely fall into an SP class...FSP I belive or STS... the works MCS is not STX legal B/C of the pully change.

Not the best news for Works owners wanting to autocross in a stock class...

looks like getting "the WORKS" is not a great deal after all! no LSD,not much more power,no brakes and a load of cash.I'll skip it :wink: not like i could use any more power,with all the non s MINI'S beating up on my times :cry: in Atlanta.
I was the CR/W S from SC conecarver,nice to meet ya! you did some great driving!

>>Hey all,
>>
>>Just got the latest SCCA FastTrack yesterday and noticed that the MCS John Cooper Works has been added to the stock class exclusion list... that means as expected all JCW cars will be bumped into the Street Modified Class (still on DOT tires) or into one of the full out MOD classes.. a La Franken Cars...LOL... IF... the regular Cooper JCW kit was available stateside it would most likely fall into an SP class...FSP I belive or STS... the works MCS is not STX legal B/C of the pully change.
>>
>>Not the best news for Works owners wanting to autocross in a stock class...

Is this the start of the acronym thread?

ahhh yes the secret language of autocross junkies!!! :lol:

>> looks like getting "the WORKS" is not a great deal after all! no LSD,not much more power,no brakes and a load of cash.I'll skip it :cool:

yes, sad news.
I'd rather to see the Works Cooper in GS and the Works Cooper S in DS
than to have them unclassed.

The works will be classed in an appropriate Street Prepared category.

The Solo Tech Bulletin (paragraph 13) of the SCCA's August Fastrack classifies the "BMW Mini 'Works'" in ASP.

Is anyone aware of the reasoning for classifying the Cooper Works MINI in ASP rather than the more appropriate class, CSP? (Does the SEB dump all otherwise unclassified Street Prepared cars in the toughest Steet Prepared class (ASP) simillarly to the way in which unclassified stock cars are automatically assigned to Super Stock (SS)?)

I've been successfully running my MCS locally in GS, and although I'm next in line at my dealer for a JCW installation, I'm still hoping for a SCCA Solo classification that would enable the JCW to run in a stock class or more appropriate street prepared class at some point in the future.

I would assume the ASP classification is just a temporary thing.

Without seeing the car perform how can you expect the SEB to make a fair classification of the car. ASP is pretty "safe" classification for them, meaning the JCW MINI has a very low chance of being an over-dog in that class.

Sorry, but at least they classed the car If they hadn't then you'd have much fewer options for running in the SCCA. Like some kind of Mod class.

Once the SEB has seen a few JCW cars perform they will more than likely re-class the car into a more apropriate Street prepared class. And once the JCW is installed at the factory they will class it in an apropriate Stock category. :grin:

Enjoy your JCW MINI it should be a blast, but save your pennies for a Quaife LSD instal, I guarente that the LSD will make the JCW package 100% more fun!

Mason

Thanks for the insight, Mason.

The ASP classing makes sense since you will presumably be doing more than just the JCW kit. A quafie equipped MCS with the full suspension running on 15 x 8s may not be an over dog, but it should hold its own.

Sorry, but I don't think a JCW MINI with an LSD, suspension upgrade and 15 x 8 wheels will ever have chance against similarly classed Mazda RX-7TT's and C4/C5 Corvettes and Porsche 911s in ASP.

>> looks like getting "the WORKS" is not a great deal after all! not much more power

Huh? Not much more power? Drive my bone stock MCS then drive a JCW MCS and tell me again that there's not much more power! When I test drove the JCW a couple of days ago, I was BLOWN AWAY by how mush more powerful it was than my MCS!....OMG!!

>>Sorry, but I don't think a JCW MINI with an LSD, suspension upgrade and 15 x 8 wheels will ever have chance against similarly classed Mazda RX-7TT's and C4/C5 Corvettes and Porsche 911s in ASP.

With an LSD and the other allowable mods in SP you may be very surprised what a works S could do in the ASP class..... I belive it could be a threat to the class with proper development and a good driver.... BTW I would go up to 15X8.5 or 9 if I could make them fit... (remember flairs are allowd in SP)

Why would a JCW MCS be considered stock? It is an aftermarket tuning company that fortunately keeps the original factory warantee. Should the Hartage kit be considered stock as well? The only difference is one is installed by the dealer and one isn't. It also doesn't look like the JCW kit will be installed by the factory because (last I checked) it is listed as a dealer option, like roof racks. Sometimes I think people don't want to learn to drive and instead want a car that will give them the most advantage over every other car out there. I mean, what would be the fun if you won all the time without trying. It would be a meaningless victory.

Daytona- It is a matter of what the rules read, and since you can not buy a JCW from the factory in Oxford, the option is considered a "trunk kit" and does not fall into stock category. This is to prevent dealers from making their own upgrades as options for the stock categories. No more Baldwin Motion 427 Camaros, or Toyota Tercel Blackhawks.

"With an LSD and the other allowable mods in SP you may be very surprised what a works S could do in the ASP class..... I belive it could be a threat to the class with proper development and a good driver.... BTW I would go up to 15X8.5 or 9 if I could make them fit... (remember flairs are allowd in SP)"

I'm Sorry, but I have to agree. Unless the MINI transforms itself into a 2700lb, RWD 350HP vehicle that's got 50/50 weight distribution.....It doesn't have a prayer in ASP. I would even question it's competitiveness in CSP? Maybe DSP? That actually seems about right......Just my .02

Stuart

>>>> looks like getting "the WORKS" is not a great deal after all! not much more power
>>
>>Huh? Not much more power? Drive my bone stock MCS then drive a JCW MCS and tell me again that there's not much more power! When I test drove the JCW a couple of days ago, I was BLOWN AWAY by how mush more powerful it was than my MCS!....OMG!!
>>
Sorry if i stepped on you'r toes there..if the WORKS makes you happy then thats great. i'd look into it if it came with a LSD,more power for one wheel drive does'nt do it for me. then again i grew up driving hot cars...70' Super Bee was my first ride!
then again i realy miss my 87 Buick GN.
I realy do love my MINI and love autoxing it,but if i do anything to it it will be
1 LSD
2 PULLY/MAGNAFLOW
3 LIGHTER RIMS/R TIRES-working on that one

I used to race in ASP with my 2700 Lb. RX-7. Honestly that class is for Corvettes the rules made it very hard for my car to be competative in it. I gave up and went on to B-Prepared. Now the SCCA is trying to add 400 lbs. to the RX-7's and remove 100 lbs. from the Corvette. It seems at every turn there are rules to keep the Corvette in front. **rant done**

I just ordered a Cooper S and I am really considering the Works kit. My dealer is trying to charge me $7K for it though so we are "negotiating".

As far as a 200HP 2700-2800 Lb. Cooper "Works" running in ASP it will be tough to beat a 400+HP (more likely 450+) 3500 lb. Z-06 with steam roller tires. Trust me I tried with my 225 RWHP 2700 LB RX-7 and would always be a few tenths short.

Once I bumped to BP the only change I made was add a boost controler and turn up the boost to achieve 290RWHP and I was killing the Z-06's by seconds. Its amazing what another 65 HP will do for you more importantly the boost controler that is not allowed in ASP gets my car in full boost faster.

I think we will need to make a lot of noise with the SCCA rule makers to get this changed I do not believe it is a fair classing. While I admittedly have not raced a Cooper S in AutoX yet I cannot imagine it would be faster than my RX-7. That said you will be hard pressed for a win in ASP. Especially if a well sorted Z-06 is racing.

Again lots of noise with the SCCA will be needed. I think the Works should be classed in a Street Prepared class just a lower one. Its obvious the Corvette crowd makes a lot of noise with the SCCA hence all the rules in their favor.

You're going to love autocrossing your S until it comes time to put the power down when exiting a corner. The lack of a LSD severely limits the car's true potential on the course. The S can be competitive in GS despite the lack of a LSD, but if you're serious about competing, I'd stay away from the JCW even if the SCCA does approve it for competition in a stock class.

I successfully competed locally with my new S several times in GS before my JCW kit arrived at the dealer. The JCW kit turns the S into the car it should have been out of the box, but with 200hp on tap, it's even more difficult to exploit the added horsepower on an autocross course than the stock Cooper S.

If the JCW is ever permitted to compete in stock class (DS, most likely), the lack of a LSD would almost certainly render it uncompetitive in the class. While the MINI can outhandle the DS cars in the slaloms, sweepers and other transients, the current overdogs--the Integra Type R with its LSD and the WRX with its AWD--both have the ability to utilize all their horsepower on the course. And those cars' ability to put the power down more than makes up for the MINI's superior handling prowess.

The installation of the JCW has been a mixed blessing for me. The car's performance on the road during daily driving is exceptional and I wouldn't think of giving it up. But I am disappointed that the added performance levels cannot be exploited on the autocross course because the lack of a LSD effectively prohibits the car from being a true competitor in the class. (During the past ten years, I have competed with a 93 RX-7 R1 and 01 Integra Type R, so I have some perspective on the performance benefits derived from a Torsen/LSD.)

Does anyone else find it odd that the new WRX STI is classed in a stock class??

I got to see one in action and look it over close up. It comes with oversize swaybars cross drilled giant brakes 300HP and 300 FT lbs torque. I cannot not understand why the CooperS Works gets bumped to ASP while the WRX STI will be in a stock class.

Sometimes the SCCA really frustrates me.

Actually this is a pattern that the SCCA continually follows. The reason that the STI is placed in a stock class is that it is delivered from the factory in this form...just as a Corvette Z06 is. If the dealer were to install a short-shift kit or some other non-factory option it would end up in the same boat as the Works Cooper S. This was actually a big problem for the WRX when it came out because the dealers where installing lots of "performance" accessories at the dealership (wheels/tires, short shift kit, etc.) and the car, in these forms, were disallowed from stock classes.

The other item to note is that when the SEB/STAC is not sure where to place a car because it hasn't been driven by a nationally competitive driver (yet) they default it into the highest stock class or street prepared class. The STI is a little different in that because of its horsepower it was higher than B Stock but less than Super S (where the Z06 dominates) so it was put in A Stock. Given how it does this year and next it may in fact be moved into another class. This is the same thing that occurred with the Cooper S last year. It was introduced into D Stock and moved to G Stock this year where it is more competitive.

The Works version because it is installed at the dealer is automatically moved to a street prepared class. In this case since no one nationally has run it and it is a big unknown it was placed in the highest street prepared category...ASP. I fully expect that in order to make the car competitive in street prepared, additional suspension and drivetrain modifications will be required (notably a limited slip differential). I expect that the car will be moved to something like D Street Prepared or lower to find cars with similar horsepower, power to weigth ratios, etc.

The one thing I find frustrating is that the changes are enforced quickly enough. Waiting a year or even two (like the Celica GTS from D Stock to G Stock) in some cases seems very long.

Hope that helps to explain the method behind the madness.

Mark :grin:

>>Does anyone else find it odd that the new WRX STI is classed in a stock class??
>>
>>I got to see one in action and look it over close up. It comes with oversize swaybars cross drilled giant brakes 300HP and 300 FT lbs torque. I cannot not understand why the CooperS Works gets bumped to ASP while the WRX STI will be in a stock class.
>>
>>Sometimes the SCCA really frustrates me.

>>Does anyone else find it odd that the new WRX STI is classed in a stock class??
>>
>>I got to see one in action and look it over close up. It comes with oversize swaybars cross drilled giant brakes 300HP and 300 FT lbs torque. I cannot not understand why the CooperS Works gets bumped to ASP while the WRX STI will be in a stock class.
>>
>>Sometimes the SCCA really frustrates me.



It's really quite simple. THe STi comes from the factory that way. THe rules are pretty clear about that. The JCW kit is an aftermarket kit designed by John Cooper Works and installed by the dealer - exchanging your parts for different parts. The JCW is as aftermarket as Randy's MINI-Motorsport package or the Hartage or installing a pulley yourself. Factory vs aftermarket. Sti is STOCK thus it is in a stock class.

Maybe all the demand will open BMW's eyes and offer a factory LSD. It has to be a factory LSD option or it's worthless.

The lack of a factory LSD is a real dissapointment. Appearently for a lot Mini owners.