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Can the JCW compete with the BMW's in DSP??

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Old 03-26-2006, 09:46 PM
OasisT
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Can the JCW compete with the BMW's in DSP??

IMHO, I think it can, after driving my STX prepped JCW on V710's at our local event today. I think it would be course dependant, but, I feel the JCW can hold its own.

Anyone think it will hang?

I might just give it a whirl at this weekends National Tour at Walnut Ridge to test the waters.

The JCW in STX trim running on R-Compounds is everything I ever wanted in a Mini, plus 50 HP more than I thought I'd ever have!!

Craig Wilcox
 
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Old 03-27-2006, 04:57 AM
BGarfield
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I think you already know my thoughts Craig, but I'm a fan of trying. Before the BMW's got so fast, I felt the previous "S" had a shot IF it was FULLY built.
Now, with extra power, it should even have a better shot, but those fat tired, RWD's are just monsters.
Remember though, an ideal STX setup suspension is not the same as one for DSP (adjustments made for more grip, etc.).
Back in 2003, I threw the R's on our STX car and ran against some top National DSP guys in our region and was pleasantly surprised, even with the car incredibly loose. But times have changed.

I'd vote that you either be willing to go all the way (radio, AC, seats, etc.) or not bother.

Brian
 
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Old 03-28-2006, 10:07 AM
OasisT
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Hmmm. Its so freakin fun though. Hmmm. :-)

I'll primarily stay in STX for the season since thats how its built, especially for the Prosolo's which I will only run in STX. But, I may dabble a bit in DSP for fun.

Still trying to decide what to do for the WNR NT, we have 4 drivers, so, someone will be on the 710's, just not sure which class and who yet. We might just rip out the back seat, throw on a small pulley and go SM2 for 2 of the drivers. LOL Well, maybe just the back seat. ;-)

I'll probably just stay in STX for this weekend to get the setup dialed in for the Pro, but, then again, I am a bit on the spontaneous side so who knows.

I don't think it could win a national championship, but, I do think it could pull a high trophy.


Oh, and, it seems that setup between the Yokohama Neova's and the 225/50/15 710's are somewhat compatible with some quick adjustments, so, its not too bad swapping between the two. I know the Kumho MX's hated our current setup, so, I sold them to Pilson. I'm sure, with the Yoko's, I will still need a good bit of dialing in for different surface types and course designs. The bad thing is, I only have one course, one temp and one surface on one day under our setup, so, were going to run into some glitches I'm sure at WNR. We'll see in 3-4 days though. ;-)
 
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Old 03-28-2006, 10:15 AM
BGarfield
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You mean SM, not SM2.

Yeah, I can't imagine it would be good for Pros since you loose the launch immediately. But, on a 60-sec Tour course you may have a shot.

Drive the pants off the thing in DSP at the Tour and give us something to talk about. I have faith in you...

I'll see you at the WR Pro!

Brian

P.S. Got my first FTD Sunday, and that was with an experienced driver in a Formula Atlantic and 250 cars... Only 19th in the PAX though, could not keep heat in the tires or engine (50 degrees).
 
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:59 AM
OasisT
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Originally Posted by BGarfield
You mean SM, not SM2.

Yeah, I can't imagine it would be good for Pros since you loose the launch immediately. But, on a 60-sec Tour course you may have a shot.

Drive the pants off the thing in DSP at the Tour and give us something to talk about. I have faith in you...

I'll see you at the WR Pro!

Brian

P.S. Got my first FTD Sunday, and that was with an experienced driver in a Formula Atlantic and 250 cars... Only 19th in the PAX though, could not keep heat in the tires or engine (50 degrees).

Oooo, good job on the FTD, thats gotta feel good so early in the season. I would have had it with the 710's on this past weekend, but, I nipped a phantom cone on the 2 FTD runs, that wider track is going to take a very slight adjustment. They were fun runs too, so, it would not have been a true FTD like yours was.

Flanagan and Rosenberg are in DSP. Not sure if I can take them. Although, Maybe I will try since its the first Tour of the season for the new car. I might as well find out its capabilities early on rather than mid season. I was 1.7 seconds faster on the 710's than the Yokohama's. I know it is course dependant, but, I was .8 slower than the 2nd or 3rd place at Nationals CS driver(in 04) in my STX trim. With the V710's on, I was .9 faster than him. The car is a real hand-ful though, so, I just hope I can handle to power/grip.

Oh, and, on the SM2 thing, if we remove the back seat, two of my hired drivers can legally run SM2 right? I won't run SM2, but, two of my hired guns might since it appears to be a more contingency friendly class, although, that is on the fine line of being chicken crap IMO so I don't know if I can bring myself to have them do it.

It WOULD be WAY more fun in DSP for me though, so, maybe I should just go for it.
 
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:54 PM
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OK boys and girls, DSP it is, I just couldn't do the SM2 thing. STU would have been more competitive, but, I need my DSP curiosity satisfied. I knew I shouldn't have bought/ran on V710's last weekend! Now I know how it feels to be hooked on Crack!!!

Myself and Ryan Barnard(nipped a cone in GS for 05, otherwise would have been 6th) will be campaigning in DSP. Joe Silva(top 6 2 years in a row in ES I think, he's a really tough driver) and Mark Bishop(always driven an underprepped car in GS divisionally was 2nd in 04 for Midiv GS, was within a second of me at Cendiv Championships in my car for the 2 day event I think, really good potential but no seat time in the Mini) will be campaigning the car in STX trim.

Were heading out Thursday night, so, hopefully we come back with a car full of wood! Anything less, will be a disappointment, but, the reality is this is our 1st/2nd event in the car on a really freakin weird alien surface. So, who knows what will happen, we might very well come home with no wood at all. :-)

I'll have the laptop with me and a wireless broadband card, so, if time permits, I'll post results here on any class that anyone requests when they are posted on the event trailer. That is if Sprint has service down there.

Craig
 
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Old 03-28-2006, 07:52 PM
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You can remove the back seat in SM. Do you have some other reason to try and get into SM2 for your other drivers?

Scott
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Old 04-02-2006, 02:25 PM
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Sorry to disappoint you guys, but, I lost the lead on the final run. I had a .4 lead on Flannagan going into run 3 today and he layed the smackdown on me with a 44.7 vs my 45.9 to pull off a .7xx win, he previously had a 46.0 and a 45.9 for the day. I was able to hold off the charging Rosenberg by .1 seconds and take 2nd. So, overall, for the 1st event in DSP, I'd say I'm a bit disappointed, however, I realize we are a long way from being dialed in and I need to get some wheels wider than 7" too. If Moton would ever get back with us, I'd like to be able to soften up the front bar as well, that would be a big help I think.

So, my basic thoughts are, the Mini can win, but, it will take a perfect weekend, a good setup and its still going to be course dependant. I think once the shorter 225/45/15's V710's are available, that will help a ton too. Maybe I'll give the Hoosier A6 a whirl between now and then.

Oh, and, that freak show surface in Walnut Ridge makes me wonder how things might have worked out on a normal surface. I can't wait to get to something other than slipper/sharp river rock/concrete agregate. :-)

The good news is, the JCW Mini is in the right ballpark of DSP with no real autox tuning yet vs the several years of development on the Bimmermonsters. On the tight courses, I think we can hang. On the wide open courses, it remains to be seen what will happen in the long run. ;-)

WNR Prosolo here I come!!
 
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Old 06-13-2006, 10:29 PM
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I have an 06 JCW MCS with Helix camber plates and 215/40-16 V710's on 7.5" wide wheels. I am in a fairly competitive club and have been doing pretty well, even against an SP BMW 328 and an SP M3. I'm still learning the car but have a 2nd overall (in the rain, lost to an FSAE car), 7th and 10th overall. I am not afraid of the 3 series Bimmers in my club, however the local courses tend to be on the tight side. If anybody wants to compare, I am running -2.1 camber and 1/10" total toe out in front with -1.0 camber and zero toe in back. I always run 60 psi in the rear and have tried up to 66 psi in front without getting strange pyrometer readings, but 45 psi in front chopped 1.5 seconds off at the last event so I've got some testing to do.
 
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Old 06-14-2006, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ICEMAN
I am running -2.1 camber and 1/10" total toe out in front with -1.0 camber and zero toe in back. I always run 60 psi in the rear and have tried up to 66 psi in front without getting strange pyrometer readings, but 45 psi in front chopped 1.5 seconds off at the last event so I've got some testing to do.
Looks like a good setup except I'd be surprised if a little more negative camber, in front, didn't help. What have you done for suspension mods?
 
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gowest
Looks like a good setup except I'd be surprised if a little more negative camber, in front, didn't help. What have you done for suspension mods?
We asked for more negative camber but at -2.5, there was contact between springs and shock towers. We have zero suspension mods, just the camber plates. We have been running 215/40-16 v710 tires all the way around and finding that we can spin them under acceleration far too easily. Because of a mistake by an e-bay seller, we bought a set of 225/50-16 V710's and had them mounted on the front. They clear everything and should add the front end grip we are looking for. The next event isn't for another 3 weeks so we won't know until then how the staggered sizes work out. In our brief run around a parking lot, they felt very grippy and by dropping the rear pressures from 62 to 30, we gained enough rear traction to balance the front grip-but I need to throw the car into a sweeper at 45 mph to see how the balance is.
 
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Old 10-12-2006, 06:16 PM
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Having suffered in ASP in '05 before the 2004 JCW Mini was legal in STX i have had a taste of Hoosier. This year the Azenis were less work, but the phrase "a taste of crack" resonates I must admit. I do believe I will take on DSP in '07. Mike Shields can't beat me any harder than Chang. We shall see. My car runs H&R coil overs set up by Turner Motorsport, and can handle the stickies very well. I am also running over -2 negative at the front axle, and -1 at the rear. I have never tried fitting a wider tires than the 205/50x15 Hoosiers on the Kosei S1 wheels that I am running, and wonder if I might get some advice on what has worked well this year. My expectation is that a 225 might fit but it could be manufacturer dependant as it would be tight. Charles Thompson 2004 JCW Mini - NER.
 
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Old 10-12-2006, 07:47 PM
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On 15x7 Kosei K1-Rs, 225/45-15 Avon Tech Rs fit well. 225/50-15 A048s fit fine after the addition of 5mm spacers up front and letting the rubber wear away a tiny bit of the rear plastic fender lip.

I suspect that with the 5mm spacers in front, 225 Hoosiers would fit great.

Scott
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Old 10-12-2006, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 90STX View Post
On 15x7 Kosei K1-Rs, 225/45-15 Avon Tech Rs fit well. 225/50-15 A048s fit fine after the addition of 5mm spacers up front and letting the rubber wear away a tiny bit of the rear plastic fender lip.

I suspect that with the 5mm spacers in front, 225 Hoosiers would fit great.

Scott
90SM
Thanks very kindly!

Charlie
 
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Old 10-12-2006, 11:00 PM
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I ran in a SCCA autocross event as a newbe,two weeks ago in Cordova Ill. I assume this thread is discussing these kinds of events? I don't know all the abbrieviations. They were very nice people. I had the tool but I sucked
However the guys said I did very well for a beginner, I finished the meet ahead of 5 people. But the car that was very impressive was the M3 BMW. The Mazdas were half the size but this big car took them on!
 
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Old 10-17-2006, 06:58 AM
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And now with the BMWs going elsewhere out of DSP?
 
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GRMPer View Post
And now with the BMWs going elsewhere out of DSP?
Oh yeah! We'll find out in about 4-5 months.
 
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:53 AM
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I'm hoping the new cars are in the same classes...DSP in a turbo MINI would be a hoot.
 
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Old 10-17-2006, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GRMPer View Post
I'm hoping the new cars are in the same classes...DSP in a turbo MINI would be a hoot.
I'm sure it would be with unlimited boost. I figure after 07, I might have to upgrade, I'm hoping to at least have a shot for 1 year before being forced to upgrade to the turbo though. :-)

Craig
 
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JPMM View Post
I ran in a SCCA autocross event as a newbe,two weeks ago in Cordova Ill. I assume this thread is discussing these kinds of events? I don't know all the abbreviations. They were very nice people. I had the tool but I sucked
However the guys said I did very well for a beginner, I finished the meet ahead of 5 people. But the car that was very impressive was the M3 BMW. The Mazda's were half the size but this big car took them on!
If you are running a stock MCS you would be in G Stock at SCCA events. The JCW can run in STX with street tires or in DSP with race rubber. Here is a link to the SCCA web sight with a bunch of things you can download for more info.
 
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by cmt52663 View Post
Having suffered in ASP in '05 before the 2004 JCW Mini was legal in STX i have had a taste of Hoosier. This year the Azenis were less work, but the phrase "a taste of crack" resonates I must admit. I do believe I will take on DSP in '07. Mike Shields can't beat me any harder than Chang. ..... Charles Thompson 2004 JCW Mini - NER.

Actually, I bet he can! Call me suicidal but I will still run DSP despite the BMWs remaining in the class. If I was within a second of Chang in STX I called that a great day last year. In '07 I may have to spot Mike 2 seconds! Still though, what a great chance to measure my slow progress against the current national champion. Sounds like fun...
 
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