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-   -   FSP / DSP (Street Prepared) MINI not suited for Street Prepared? (https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/fsp-dsp-street-prepared/233547-mini-not-suited-for-street-prepared.html)

NYTransplant 07-12-2012 10:06 AM

MINI not suited for Street Prepared?
 
I'm guessing that by the low quantity of posts in this forum that the MINI is probably not the best starting point to build a DSP car.

I don't have any plans to run at nationals with this car, but do like to go out and play occasionally. When I do, I have no choice but to run DSP.

Two things I can do to become more competitive (three if you count scraping off 12 years of butt rust since I last went to Nationals), are to add the Accessport and Camber Plates. The car is reasonably capable otherwise.

One question I have about DSP legality is the hood scoop. I have a CF hood scoop that allows air through it. I may be wrong, but isn't the stock scoop non functional? In this case, does the scoop toss me out of DSP?

Thanks,

Tim

minihune 08-17-2012 03:52 PM


Originally Posted by NYTransplant (Post 3548732)
I'm guessing that by the low quantity of posts in this forum that the MINI is probably not the best starting point to build a DSP car.

I don't have any plans to run at nationals with this car, but do like to go out and play occasionally. When I do, I have no choice but to run DSP.

Two things I can do to become more competitive (three if you count scraping off 12 years of butt rust since I last went to Nationals), are to add the Accessport and Camber Plates. The car is reasonably capable otherwise.

One question I have about DSP legality is the hood scoop. I have a CF hood scoop that allows air through it. I may be wrong, but isn't the stock scoop non functional? In this case, does the scoop toss me out of DSP?

Thanks,

Tim

For SCCA classes eligible for the MINI-
Stock -> Street Touring -> Street Prepared -> Street Modified

COOPER (All models)= H-Stock (HS)
COOPER S (All models)= D-Stock (DS)
2006-2012 MCS JCW = D-Stock (DS)
2009-2012 Clubman S JCW = D-Stock (DS)

Permitted Modifications
Any Struts - including adjustable damping
Any substitution, addition or removal of a single anti-roll bar
Panel Air Filter in stock air box
Any Cat-back exhaust
Harnesses (Quick-fit or similar) and C.G. Locks
Wheels must be stock size and stock offset within 5mm. This means 15x5.5 and 16x6.5 for the MC and 16x6.5 and 17x7 for the MCS.
R-compound Tires - Hoosier A6, Kumho V710, or similar. Street tires are also acceptable, but won't be very competitive since race tires are permitted in this class.
Brake pads may be replaced
Spare tire and tool kit may be removed
Roll bars or roll cages may be added
airbags may not be removed

Basically, that's about the extent of the modifications that can be done. Lowering Springs, camber plates, camber links, cone filters, lighter seats, interior gutting, headwork, cams, engine dampeners, USS, Strut Braces, BBK's, brake stiffeners, slotted rotors, etc..... ARE NOT PERMITTED IN STOCK CLASS.

Street Touring

COOPER (All models) = Street Touring FWD (STF)
COOPER S, COOPER S JCW 04-05' dealer installed) = Street Touring Extreme (STX)

Permitted Modifications
All of the STOCK class modifications with the exception of tires
Tires in street touring must have a wear rating above 140
Tires may but up to 225 wide in STS and 245 wide in STX.
Wheels may be up to 7.5" wide for STS and 8.0" wide for STX
Coilovers, rear swaybars, camber plates, camber links, are all OK in STS.
You may have non stock seats, but you must still have the same number of functional seats. This means you can not gut your interior, but you may put in lighter racing buckets if you'd like.
The air conditioning may be removed.
Cone filters are acceptable
Spoilers/splitters may be added
cross drilled/slotted rotors
lightweight batteries are ok as long as voltage remains the same
batteries may be relocated
Limited Slip Differentials may be added (STX)

Street Prepared

COOPER = F Street Prepared (FSP)
COOPER S and JCW and JCW GP = D Street Prepared (DSP)

Permitted Modifications
Anything permitted in Stock or Street Touring is basically ok in Steet Prepared.
Race Tires may be used
Any wheel width, size, or offset may be used
Cross drilled and slotted rotors are ok, BBK's are not.
Bump stops may be altered or removed

Street Modified FWD

COOPER = Street Modified (SMF)
COOPER S = Street Modified (SMF)

Permitted Modifications
All stock, street touring, and street prepared modifications are permitted.
IF YOU HAVE AN MCS WITH AN AFTERMARKET REDUCTION PULLEY YOUR MINI IS IN STREET MODIFIED.
BBK's
Cams and head work
Any upgrade that adds boost
Carbon fiber bonnet
Aero wing
------------

So based on these classes do you still think you are in DSP?
What about one of the street touring classes? It is similar to DSP but is limited on wheel width and tire treadwear rating but has a better PAX.

There are many upgrades that are legal in DSP class. A CF hood scoop is not mentioned in the rules under DSP so techinically it is not allowed however you can ask your competition if they would allow it as a cosmetic trim piece under rule 15.2 I on page 94 of the current 2012 rule book. If they say OK then you can leave it as is. If not then put the stock scoop back on for events.

Check the mods for Street Modified and if you have any of them then you are in SMF not DSP.

NYTransplant 08-18-2012 01:22 AM

I'd say I'm in DSP. I have the Accessport installed which I believe is illegal in ST (though it is easy to uninstall). I also run a 100 tread wear tire, which is not allowed in ST. Again, easy to fix when they wear out.

I have an LSD which I believe is not legal for SMF.

The reason I asked about the hood scoop was I saw some R53 discussion about an aftermarket hood scoop being illegal for DSP. I finally figured out that the reason would be that since the R53 has the intercooler mounted under the scoop, it violates the intercooler ducting modification rule. Since the R56 has the FMIC, this does not apply.

I didn't even think about the fact that it is CF might make it illegal. Since the scoop is a JCW factory piece, and the JCW is classed in DSP, would it fall under the update/backdate rule?

TazMinianDevil 08-18-2012 01:39 PM

I was told once that until I run R-Comps, I will not be competitive in DSP. Heck unless you run R-Comps, you won't be competitive in DS. So if you want to try and win a class, or be top 5 in PAX, either you will need to strip down to a street tire class, or upgrade to R-Comps. Otherwise just run and have fun! Heck I'm even going to nationals running my under prepped DSP car.

FWIW, aftermarket LSDs are allowed in SP and SM classes, but if you have the rare dealer installed LSD, you can still run in DS with it. I wouldn't sweat the scoop, but I think some of the FMIC stuff maybe pushing you into DSP more than the scoop.

minihune 08-18-2012 05:00 PM


Originally Posted by NYTransplant (Post 3573349)
I'd say I'm in DSP. I have the Accessport installed which I believe is illegal in ST (though it is easy to uninstall). I also run a 100 tread wear tire, which is not allowed in ST. Again, easy to fix when they wear out.

I have an LSD which I believe is not legal for SMF.

The reason I asked about the hood scoop was I saw some R53 discussion about an aftermarket hood scoop being illegal for DSP. I finally figured out that the reason would be that since the R53 has the intercooler mounted under the scoop, it violates the intercooler ducting modification rule. Since the R56 has the FMIC, this does not apply.

I didn't even think about the fact that it is CF might make it illegal. Since the scoop is a JCW factory piece, and the JCW is classed in DSP, would it fall under the update/backdate rule?

Your aftermarket LSD is not allowed in any Street Touring class but is legal for both DSP and SMF.

The CF JCW hood scoop is legal in DSP and in SMF due to it is a factory option in JCW MINIs. If it were aftermarket M7 larger scoop then it is not allowed in DSP or STF. Any scoop is OK in SMF.

Your larger front intercooler is legal in DSP and in SMF.

Your Access Port is legal in ST, DSP and SMF classes.

What is your 100 treadwear tire? Track R compound tire used on the road?
Toyos?

minihune 08-18-2012 05:05 PM


Originally Posted by TazMinianDevil (Post 3573553)
I was told once that until I run R-Comps, I will not be competitive in DSP. Heck unless you run R-Comps, you won't be competitive in DS. So if you want to try and win a class, or be top 5 in PAX, either you will need to strip down to a street tire class, or upgrade to R-Comps. Otherwise just run and have fun! Heck I'm even going to nationals running my under prepped DSP car.

FWIW, aftermarket LSDs are allowed in SP and SM classes, but if you have the rare dealer installed LSD, you can still run in DS with it. I wouldn't sweat the scoop, but I think some of the FMIC stuff maybe pushing you into DSP more than the scoop.

Correct, it is known that R compound tires will be 1.5+ seconds faster than any Street tire on a given car over a 30-40 second course.

If your class allows R compound tires (all classes except for Street Touring) then you have a choice to make.

If street tires is your only option then you have to decide if you meet the limits of Street Touring rules.

If you can drive much better than anyone else in your class it is possible on the local or regional level to better other cars on R compound tires while on street tires. It won't be easy and your margin of victory could be tenths of a second or less. Worn out R compounds are about 1 second slower than when fresh.

NYTransplant 08-18-2012 06:21 PM

The 100 tread wear tires are Toyo R888. They are track tires, not Autocross tires. A nice set of Hoosiers would be faster, but like I said, I'm not in it to win, though the car is very capable of winning local events.

You are right minihune, I was confused between SMF and STF with the LSD. I definitely do not want to spend any more money on the car for the purpose of competing in SMF, so I'll pop in some Camber Plates and call it a DSP car. I'm perfectly happy with that! :thumbsup:

NYTransplant 08-18-2012 07:06 PM

Oh, and just as a comparison of the "fun factor" vs. SCCA competitiveness, the "autocross" that our local BMWCCA puts on at the BMW Perfomance Center is a bit faster than an SCCA event.



super fun! There are no classes here. You run against any BMW product, straight up.

NYTransplant 08-19-2012 01:37 AM


Originally Posted by TazMinianDevil (Post 3573553)
I was told once that until I run R-Comps, I will not be competitive in DSP. Heck unless you run R-Comps, you won't be competitive in DS. So if you want to try and win a class, or be top 5 in PAX, either you will need to strip down to a street tire class, or upgrade to R-Comps. Otherwise just run and have fun! Heck I'm even going to nationals running my under prepped DSP car.

FWIW, aftermarket LSDs are allowed in SP and SM classes, but if you have the rare dealer installed LSD, you can still run in DS with it. I wouldn't sweat the scoop, but I think some of the FMIC stuff maybe pushing you into DSP more than the scoop.

The R-Comps are definitely key to be competitive. The best mod you can make though, is the loose nut behind the steering wheel :grin:

Dollar for Dollar, I'd bet an Evolution school, and then lots of seat time beats a set of R-Comps any day.

I have no shot at DS because of the mods on the car, though I do have the factory LSD, which as you point out would be great for DS. If you take a look at my sig, you'll see why DS is far behind me. I don't think anything pushes me out of DSP though.

minihune 08-19-2012 01:30 PM


Originally Posted by NYTransplant (Post 3573679)
Oh, and just as a comparison of the "fun factor" vs. SCCA competitiveness, the "autocross" that our local BMWCCA puts on at the BMW Perfomance Center is a bit faster than an SCCA event.



super fun! There are no classes here. You run against any BMW product, straight up.

According to SCCA rules, speeds are limited to up to highway speed in the fastest cars. That BMWCCA course was a track and they didn't even bother to have cones offset enough to make you think of driving anything but a straight line.

In SCCA course design every fast section is followed by an element intended to slow you down and control your speed.

Here is an example from my region and it is plenty fun to drive-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6912881428/

NYTransplant 08-19-2012 02:57 PM

Very cool & Nicely done! :thumbsup:

The straight line speed on the BMW course is why I put the word autocross in quotes. :). Although I didn't get much above 70 MPH. Of course that is Pre-Accessport, so the acceleration is a bit anemic.

Here is our local region's SCCA autocross. I'm not very happy with how far off the cones I am. Like I said...12 years of butt rust. :grin:


minihune 08-19-2012 03:38 PM


Originally Posted by NYTransplant (Post 3574017)
Very cool & Nicely done! :thumbsup:

The straight line speed on the BMW course is why I put the word autocross in quotes. :). Although I didn't get much above 70 MPH. Of course that is Pre-Accessport, so the acceleration is a bit anemic.

Here is our local region's SCCA autocross. I'm not very happy with how far off the cones I am. Like I said...12 years of butt rust. :grin:


You can mount your camera close to the wheels on the outside of the car if you have a GoPro or similar and see how far off the cones you really are. Just mount it high enough not to hit any cones.

You did pretty well but could watch your line and clean it up a little to get the shortest possible straight line. It doesn't look like there are any really tight areas to slow down, I would call that autocrossing on a wide open course.

It's always good to get a chance to ride along a driver in your region that has posted a top time and see what it feels like to do that same course faster. Then get back in your car and see if you can do it.

GreyLens 09-15-2012 01:51 PM


Originally Posted by minihune (Post 3573623)
Your aftermarket LSD is not allowed in any Street Touring class but is legal for both DSP and SMF.

The CF JCW hood scoop is legal in DSP and in SMF due to it is a factory option in JCW MINIs. If it were aftermarket M7 larger scoop then it is not allowed in DSP or STF. Any scoop is OK in SMF.

Your larger front intercooler is legal in DSP and in SMF.

Your Access Port is legal in ST, DSP and SMF classes.

What is your 100 treadwear tire? Track R compound tire used on the road?
Toyos?

I ran SCCA STX for two years and then moved to DSP. I do about 20+ events a year.

You can see my mods below. All 2WD vehicles can use any LSD in STX which is the ST class for CooperS and JCW.

The AccessPort is legal if the loaded tune does not "directly" change boost levels. I just always loaded the stock tune with the linear throttle config when running STX. No changes to boost levels, intercoolers or boost controls are allowed in STX. R-comps are a must to be competitive...I run Hoosier A-6's.

Your hood scoop should be fine.

IMHO the JCW is at a considerable disadvantage in DSP. I was scheduled to go to the SCCA Nationals this year but had to cancel for work at the last minute. DSP had 21 entries and 18 were older 3 series BMW's. I do well locally against MazdaSpeed3's and look forward to giving a few 3-series platforms a run for their money at the 2013 nationals. Emphasis on the word "few." I ran a numbers game comparing to another national level driver I drive against locally here in SA. Based on the analysis, which is a bit silly but fairly logical, I would have placed around 17th out of 22 entries, if I wouldn't have choked, of course...if, if, if....

I've posted a series of discussions about prepping for STX and DSP on another forum that you might find helpful. I got a lot of good advice along the way.


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