F60 F60 vs R60
#3
09-27-2017, 06:22 AM
3rd Gear
Have no idea. Never owned or drove an R60. I owned an R53 years ago.
From reading the countryman facebook pages (which obviously has a ton more R60 owners than F60 owners) the R60 owners seem stubborn and almost always say the R60 is better, but never even gave the F60 a test drive. Some people get set in their ways. I bet if you post this same thread in the R60 section, you'll see what I mean be the responses.
From reading the countryman facebook pages (which obviously has a ton more R60 owners than F60 owners) the R60 owners seem stubborn and almost always say the R60 is better, but never even gave the F60 a test drive. Some people get set in their ways. I bet if you post this same thread in the R60 section, you'll see what I mean be the responses.
#4
09-27-2017, 08:59 AM
It's not close.
Right now, we have one of each (2012 R60, 2018 F60, both "S" models). It's to even close. I really love my R60 S, but the F60 S is a much, much better everyday driving car. It's quieter; smoother shifts with the 8 speed automatic; much better headlights (we had the halogens on our R60's, not the HIDs). That's not even considering all the technology updates and creature comforts if you get it optioned that way - more comfortable and adjustable power seats, power lift gate, CarPlay and overall way better technology integration.
I can't speak to how they might do in high-performance testing. But for driving on the highway and everyday suburbia, it's just not close if you ask me. I would not hesitate to get an F60.
I should add I haven't had a chance to drive the JCW or the Hybrid as the dealer in Austin can't keep them in stock long enough for a test drive.
I can't speak to how they might do in high-performance testing. But for driving on the highway and everyday suburbia, it's just not close if you ask me. I would not hesitate to get an F60.
I should add I haven't had a chance to drive the JCW or the Hybrid as the dealer in Austin can't keep them in stock long enough for a test drive.
#5
10-02-2017, 07:16 AM
I had a R60 S ALL4 for more than 200.000km and i tested the F60 when i was looking for a substitute...
As JSE75 mentioned, the ride on the F60 is light years better compared to the R60: even on 19" wheels. The quality of the interior is finally matched with the selling price.
So i think that the F60 it's a huuuuge improvement over the R60, BUT... it lost a some road feeling, road feedback. I've always found my R60 (standard suspension, 18" runflat, manual) to be sketchy on not perfect roads, skipping on the sides in high speed turns... You just had to be careful... The F60 gave me a feeling of relax and confidence.
The F60 is grownup, refined, relaxed, comfortable and still a little bit sporty.
The R60 is rough, almost cheap on the inside, noisy, but great feedback while driving and lots of smiles with the JCW exhaust :D
For my new car i opted for a F54 JCW, because when i tested it, it was the one closer to the R60 as feedback (but still the F54 runs way smoother than the R60). I think the F54 is the right compromise between the R60 and the new F series MINI.
As JSE75 mentioned, the ride on the F60 is light years better compared to the R60: even on 19" wheels. The quality of the interior is finally matched with the selling price.
So i think that the F60 it's a huuuuge improvement over the R60, BUT... it lost a some road feeling, road feedback. I've always found my R60 (standard suspension, 18" runflat, manual) to be sketchy on not perfect roads, skipping on the sides in high speed turns... You just had to be careful... The F60 gave me a feeling of relax and confidence.
The F60 is grownup, refined, relaxed, comfortable and still a little bit sporty.
The R60 is rough, almost cheap on the inside, noisy, but great feedback while driving and lots of smiles with the JCW exhaust :D
For my new car i opted for a F54 JCW, because when i tested it, it was the one closer to the R60 as feedback (but still the F54 runs way smoother than the R60). I think the F54 is the right compromise between the R60 and the new F series MINI.
#6
10-22-2017, 06:44 AM
We still own a R60, the 2012 S. Our Countryman experiences mirror the other posts here. F60s aren’t prone to bump steer over bad roads like the R60 and my now gone R55. They do lean more in terms of body roll, which we learned from the multiple days we’ve driven both Base and S models, but they’re taller than the R60. Not excessive of a lean, but you notice it on highway ramps like cloverleaf exits or on-ramps.
F60 suspensions handle rough roads, speed bumps and general pavement with enough feedback to remind you you’re still driving a Mini without the buck-board ride of our R60.
To be fair to our R60, it has 18” Run Flats for 3 seasons, and 17” Winter Snow Tires that aren’t Run Flats, so the tire switch alone totally transforms the vehicle.
If we ditched the Run Flats, we would see a different daily driver for sure.
However, and this is a BIG point, we’ve driven F60s with a 19” Run Flat Package and the car is still super compliant, not jarring, and a smoother ride than our R60 on 17” soft Winter Tires while still feeling nimble and giving great feedback.
Cargo Area.... huge difference between the two generations.
With an R60, you neatly line up a single depth row of Grocery Bags in the back, and without playing with your rear seats for more room, that’s it for space.
The larger F60 has more depth and a bit more width, so two rows of groceries fit. If you have 4 people in the Countryman, this will matter, and luggage space matters .....
I’ve never felt our R60 has a cheap interior, I hear that in reviews though.
The interior and ergonomics are quirky, but we grew accustomed to them within days of getting the car.
The F60 interior is softer, more ‘posh’ as some of my British friends might say and has some of the controls in a more conventional mounting.
The tiny Joystick of the past Mini Connected system gave way to the larger dial/mouse of the current systems, and you lost the mechanical Parking Brake to a much smaller packaged Electric Switch for electrically applied Brake Caliper, gaining useable center console/ ‘Rail’ space in the change.
As you might have guessed, we’re very close to buying an F60, probably an All4 S. We’ll miss our R60 as it was our first MINI, has black strips Front and Rear, Black Union Jack Mirror caps, Xenon Headlights, folding Mirrors, Black Lounge Leather seats and a ton of character with a 6 speed Manual Trans to boot. We WILL miss the smaller parking space ability of an R60 though, I think the F60 is 8” longer?. In the City, that alone can make or break some people who are forced to use street parking 24/7 if they have no garage access.
If you drive one of each model, you’ll notice all of this and more, so one of them will appeal to you since they’re so different.
F60 suspensions handle rough roads, speed bumps and general pavement with enough feedback to remind you you’re still driving a Mini without the buck-board ride of our R60.
To be fair to our R60, it has 18” Run Flats for 3 seasons, and 17” Winter Snow Tires that aren’t Run Flats, so the tire switch alone totally transforms the vehicle.
If we ditched the Run Flats, we would see a different daily driver for sure.
However, and this is a BIG point, we’ve driven F60s with a 19” Run Flat Package and the car is still super compliant, not jarring, and a smoother ride than our R60 on 17” soft Winter Tires while still feeling nimble and giving great feedback.
Cargo Area.... huge difference between the two generations.
With an R60, you neatly line up a single depth row of Grocery Bags in the back, and without playing with your rear seats for more room, that’s it for space.
The larger F60 has more depth and a bit more width, so two rows of groceries fit. If you have 4 people in the Countryman, this will matter, and luggage space matters .....
I’ve never felt our R60 has a cheap interior, I hear that in reviews though.
The interior and ergonomics are quirky, but we grew accustomed to them within days of getting the car.
The F60 interior is softer, more ‘posh’ as some of my British friends might say and has some of the controls in a more conventional mounting.
The tiny Joystick of the past Mini Connected system gave way to the larger dial/mouse of the current systems, and you lost the mechanical Parking Brake to a much smaller packaged Electric Switch for electrically applied Brake Caliper, gaining useable center console/ ‘Rail’ space in the change.
As you might have guessed, we’re very close to buying an F60, probably an All4 S. We’ll miss our R60 as it was our first MINI, has black strips Front and Rear, Black Union Jack Mirror caps, Xenon Headlights, folding Mirrors, Black Lounge Leather seats and a ton of character with a 6 speed Manual Trans to boot. We WILL miss the smaller parking space ability of an R60 though, I think the F60 is 8” longer?. In the City, that alone can make or break some people who are forced to use street parking 24/7 if they have no garage access.
If you drive one of each model, you’ll notice all of this and more, so one of them will appeal to you since they’re so different.
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razz (06-30-2022)
#7
10-22-2017, 07:36 AM
Originally Posted by Pure Red
We still own a R60, the 2012 S. Our Countryman experiences mirror the other posts here. F60s aren’t prone to bump steer over bad roads like the R60 and my now gone R55. They do lean more in terms of body roll, which we learned from the multiple days we’ve driven both Base and S models, but they’re taller than the R60. Not excessive of a lean, but you notice it on highway ramps like cloverleaf exits or on-ramps.
F60 suspensions handle rough roads, speed bumps and general pavement with enough feedback to remind you you’re still driving a Mini without the buck-board ride of our R60.
To be fair to our R60, it has 18” Run Flats for 3 seasons, and 17” Winter Snow Tires that aren’t Run Flats, so the tire switch alone totally transforms the vehicle.
If we ditched the Run Flats, we would see a different daily driver for sure.
However, and this is a BIG point, we’ve driven F60s with a 19” Run Flat Package and the car is still super compliant, not jarring, and a smoother ride than our R60 on 17” soft Winter Tires while still feeling nimble and giving great feedback.
Cargo Area.... huge difference between the two generations.
With an R60, you neatly line up a single depth row of Grocery Bags in the back, and without playing with your rear seats for more room, that’s it for space.
The larger F60 has more depth and a bit more width, so two rows of groceries fit. If you have 4 people in the Countryman, this will matter, and luggage space matters .....
I’ve never felt our R60 has a cheap interior, I hear that in reviews though.
The interior and ergonomics are quirky, but we grew accustomed to them within days of getting the car.
The F60 interior is softer, more ‘posh’ as some of my British friends might say and has some of the controls in a more conventional mounting.
The tiny Joystick of the past Mini Connected system gave way to the larger dial/mouse of the current systems, and you lost the mechanical Parking Brake to a much smaller packaged Electric Switch for electrically applied Brake Caliper, gaining useable center console/ ‘Rail’ space in the change.
As you might have guessed, we’re very close to buying an F60, probably an All4 S. We’ll miss our R60 as it was our first MINI, has black strips Front and Rear, Black Union Jack Mirror caps, Xenon Headlights, folding Mirrors, Black Lounge Leather seats and a ton of character with a 6 speed Manual Trans to boot. We WILL miss the smaller parking space ability of an R60 though, I think the F60 is 8” longer?. In the City, that alone can make or break some people who are forced to use street parking 24/7 if they have no garage access.
If you drive one of each model, you’ll notice all of this and more, so one of them will appeal to you since they’re so different.
F60 suspensions handle rough roads, speed bumps and general pavement with enough feedback to remind you you’re still driving a Mini without the buck-board ride of our R60.
To be fair to our R60, it has 18” Run Flats for 3 seasons, and 17” Winter Snow Tires that aren’t Run Flats, so the tire switch alone totally transforms the vehicle.
If we ditched the Run Flats, we would see a different daily driver for sure.
However, and this is a BIG point, we’ve driven F60s with a 19” Run Flat Package and the car is still super compliant, not jarring, and a smoother ride than our R60 on 17” soft Winter Tires while still feeling nimble and giving great feedback.
Cargo Area.... huge difference between the two generations.
With an R60, you neatly line up a single depth row of Grocery Bags in the back, and without playing with your rear seats for more room, that’s it for space.
The larger F60 has more depth and a bit more width, so two rows of groceries fit. If you have 4 people in the Countryman, this will matter, and luggage space matters .....
I’ve never felt our R60 has a cheap interior, I hear that in reviews though.
The interior and ergonomics are quirky, but we grew accustomed to them within days of getting the car.
The F60 interior is softer, more ‘posh’ as some of my British friends might say and has some of the controls in a more conventional mounting.
The tiny Joystick of the past Mini Connected system gave way to the larger dial/mouse of the current systems, and you lost the mechanical Parking Brake to a much smaller packaged Electric Switch for electrically applied Brake Caliper, gaining useable center console/ ‘Rail’ space in the change.
As you might have guessed, we’re very close to buying an F60, probably an All4 S. We’ll miss our R60 as it was our first MINI, has black strips Front and Rear, Black Union Jack Mirror caps, Xenon Headlights, folding Mirrors, Black Lounge Leather seats and a ton of character with a 6 speed Manual Trans to boot. We WILL miss the smaller parking space ability of an R60 though, I think the F60 is 8” longer?. In the City, that alone can make or break some people who are forced to use street parking 24/7 if they have no garage access.
If you drive one of each model, you’ll notice all of this and more, so one of them will appeal to you since they’re so different.
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#8
10-23-2017, 05:04 PM
We still own a R60, the 2012 S. Our Countryman experiences mirror the other posts here. F60s aren’t prone to bump steer over bad roads like the R60 and my now gone R55. They do lean more in terms of body roll, which we learned from the multiple days we’ve driven both Base and S models, but they’re taller than the R60. Not excessive of a lean, but you notice it on highway ramps like cloverleaf exits or on-ramps.
F60 suspensions handle rough roads, speed bumps and general pavement with enough feedback to remind you you’re still driving a Mini without the buck-board ride of our R60.
To be fair to our R60, it has 18” Run Flats for 3 seasons, and 17” Winter Snow Tires that aren’t Run Flats, so the tire switch alone totally transforms the vehicle.
If we ditched the Run Flats, we would see a different daily driver for sure.
However, and this is a BIG point, we’ve driven F60s with a 19” Run Flat Package and the car is still super compliant, not jarring, and a smoother ride than our R60 on 17” soft Winter Tires while still feeling nimble and giving great feedback.
Cargo Area.... huge difference between the two generations.
With an R60, you neatly line up a single depth row of Grocery Bags in the back, and without playing with your rear seats for more room, that’s it for space.
The larger F60 has more depth and a bit more width, so two rows of groceries fit. If you have 4 people in the Countryman, this will matter, and luggage space matters .....
I’ve never felt our R60 has a cheap interior, I hear that in reviews though.
The interior and ergonomics are quirky, but we grew accustomed to them within days of getting the car.
The F60 interior is softer, more ‘posh’ as some of my British friends might say and has some of the controls in a more conventional mounting.
The tiny Joystick of the past Mini Connected system gave way to the larger dial/mouse of the current systems, and you lost the mechanical Parking Brake to a much smaller packaged Electric Switch for electrically applied Brake Caliper, gaining useable center console/ ‘Rail’ space in the change.
As you might have guessed, we’re very close to buying an F60, probably an All4 S. We’ll miss our R60 as it was our first MINI, has black strips Front and Rear, Black Union Jack Mirror caps, Xenon Headlights, folding Mirrors, Black Lounge Leather seats and a ton of character with a 6 speed Manual Trans to boot. We WILL miss the smaller parking space ability of an R60 though, I think the F60 is 8” longer?. In the City, that alone can make or break some people who are forced to use street parking 24/7 if they have no garage access.
If you drive one of each model, you’ll notice all of this and more, so one of them will appeal to you since they’re so different.
F60 suspensions handle rough roads, speed bumps and general pavement with enough feedback to remind you you’re still driving a Mini without the buck-board ride of our R60.
To be fair to our R60, it has 18” Run Flats for 3 seasons, and 17” Winter Snow Tires that aren’t Run Flats, so the tire switch alone totally transforms the vehicle.
If we ditched the Run Flats, we would see a different daily driver for sure.
However, and this is a BIG point, we’ve driven F60s with a 19” Run Flat Package and the car is still super compliant, not jarring, and a smoother ride than our R60 on 17” soft Winter Tires while still feeling nimble and giving great feedback.
Cargo Area.... huge difference between the two generations.
With an R60, you neatly line up a single depth row of Grocery Bags in the back, and without playing with your rear seats for more room, that’s it for space.
The larger F60 has more depth and a bit more width, so two rows of groceries fit. If you have 4 people in the Countryman, this will matter, and luggage space matters .....
I’ve never felt our R60 has a cheap interior, I hear that in reviews though.
The interior and ergonomics are quirky, but we grew accustomed to them within days of getting the car.
The F60 interior is softer, more ‘posh’ as some of my British friends might say and has some of the controls in a more conventional mounting.
The tiny Joystick of the past Mini Connected system gave way to the larger dial/mouse of the current systems, and you lost the mechanical Parking Brake to a much smaller packaged Electric Switch for electrically applied Brake Caliper, gaining useable center console/ ‘Rail’ space in the change.
As you might have guessed, we’re very close to buying an F60, probably an All4 S. We’ll miss our R60 as it was our first MINI, has black strips Front and Rear, Black Union Jack Mirror caps, Xenon Headlights, folding Mirrors, Black Lounge Leather seats and a ton of character with a 6 speed Manual Trans to boot. We WILL miss the smaller parking space ability of an R60 though, I think the F60 is 8” longer?. In the City, that alone can make or break some people who are forced to use street parking 24/7 if they have no garage access.
If you drive one of each model, you’ll notice all of this and more, so one of them will appeal to you since they’re so different.
We still have a 2012 Countryman and now our new 2018 Countryman and I agree with most of this.
It handles better than our R60, but still doesn't feel "overly-refined" like a BMW (which is a good thing). Still having the feedback is very nice. It's also a lot quieter than our R60 (the road noise in our R60 is awful!) and both our Countryman's run Runflats. The runflats worked amazingly well on our 2012 (had a blowout and the car didn't even bat an eye, didn't know how bad it was until I pulled over). I know they're more expensive and have more road noise and such, but I am a believer...
Cargo area is nice, for sure! And the back seats are very comfortable (I like that they can move back and forward too). It wasn't a huge thing for us (Our R60 was fine when it came to cargo area for our lifestyle), so I would have rather had the car a bit smaller, like the R60, but oh well...
The R60 doesn't have a cheap interior, IMO, but man, compared to the F60 it does! LOL! The F60 is what I call our "Mini BMW". The interior is very nice, well laid out and more useful than our R60. And getting rid of the rail system is a HUGE deal. I hate that thing. LOL! It's great at collecting dust/dirt and impossible to clean! The F60's interior is more "grown up", but in a good way... Although, I am pissed off that I had to be forced to get the HUD since all I wanted was the Carplay (all part of the Tech pkg), but oh well...
The engine is much better too... Like it was actually designed to go into a bigger vehicle!
Both our Countryman's are manuals and the manual on the F60 is so light and easy to shift, it just feels wonderful! EXCEPT the stupid rev matching... I am having to re-teach myself how to drive, cause anytime you put the shifter into a lower gear, it wants to rev match, and sometimes, I am not at a point where that is a good idea but want to get into the lower gear in anticipation of a turn or whatever (ie: coming off the freeway, still going at a decent speed, but wanting to go to 2nd before I hit the turn at the intersection since I know I'll be going about 20 mph around the turn). If you put the car into the gear too early, it wants to rev match right away, so I have to remember to shift into the gear closer to the actual turn/speed... It's annoying. I know how to rev match, been doing it for MANY years, so having the car do it is annoying! 
Other than that though, it's a delight to drive!
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razz (05-12-2022)
#10
10-24-2017, 03:10 PM
5th Gear
#11
10-24-2017, 05:37 PM
#12
10-24-2017, 09:42 PM
I still don't like it. Many others (like yourself) will probably love the feature, which is great! Maybe that'll get more people to buy manuals (one can hope), cause I'd rather have this system than no manual option at all...
#13
05-11-2022, 06:05 PM
#14
05-11-2022, 06:12 PM