Yeah everybody knows that, but the magnitude of savings also depends on how old the car is. For instance I probably got put together when I traded in my 2007 MCS on my current Mini for about $7500. I think KBB said I could get about $10k. But the display was partly out, and it was gonna need rear brakes, tires were old, etc. I didn't want to screw around with it for $2500-3000. Heck the dealers don't even turn the engine on they just take it as is.

 

Yup.

But when I'm done with a car, I'm done. I'm not set up to deal with people calling my cell and taking people for test drives, and dealing with smog and DMV, and carjackers and deadbeats. And I don't want a call in six months telling me the tranny fell out or whatever, and I don't want prospects coming to my house or even meeting me. I give it to the dealer and let them make whatever they can. For that, I give away some $ -- and try to get some of those $ back in other parts of the deal.

 

Sales Manager, concluding his remarks to his team at the end of another horrible weekly sales meeting, “Okay, now I don’t want you coming up to The Desk with an offer from the customer at dead invoice. Remember, ALL DEALS COME FROM THE DESK!”

So, here comes the poor MA’s first ‘up’ of the weekend with a piece of paper in his hand that has a printout from some car deal web site that has an itemized “invoice” of a car on the dealer’s lot and the up says to the MA, “If you still have this car in your inventory I’m ready to buy it today… if the deal is right.”

The MA says, “Oh, we will treat you right on the deal. Let’s go take a walk around the car you’ve selected and do what we need to do to make it yours today!”

Then the customer says, “I’m ready to make an offer at dead invoice minus the rebate advertised on the MINI USA web site. Here, I have it all printed out and I’ve already worked out the numbers for you. Just take this to your manager and let’s get this done!”

The MA is smiling, but his mind is reeling. He hears his manager’s voice, ‘All deals come from the desk. I don’t want you coming up to The Desk with an offer from the customer at dead invoice…”

A skillful MA and a savvy customer can work around this. But it requires a little candor and a lot of finesse, and some patience because, at some dealerships, you gotta do the dance steps to the sale, tedious as this might be.

If the customer has his/her eyes on the prize, and the MA knows how to manage this, there is a possibility for a happy ending to what otherwise could be a nasty day on the lot for the poor MA and no chance of a deal for the customer.

So, instead of flashing paperwork in front of the MA from the start, the savvy customer goes through the meet and greet and the walk around and the test drive, gently deflecting the MA’s qualifying questions and attempted soft closes. When the MA invites the customer into the showroom office to “run some numbers,” this is the customer’s moment.

If the MA says something like, “Let me get some preliminary information and I’ll have my manager put together some numbers for us,” the customer can:

Option #1: cooperate and see what comes back from The Desk. Whatever comes back, this is the moment for the customer to say, “Here’s what I’m prepared to say ‘yes’ to right now. What is the best way to make the deal I need happen?”

Or, Option #2: as soon as the MA starts talking about having his manager put together some numbers, the customer can gently and politely say, “Before we start all that, I have some definite numbers in mind that I am ready to say yes to right now. What’s the fastest way to get to the numbers I need to see in order for me to say yes to a deal today?” This allows the MA to navigate the dealership dynamics which may require some patience on the part of the customer but might just get the deal done.

In any case, the only time invoice, or any other specific aspect needs to come up is if there is resistance to meeting the customer’s numbers. If the dealer can’t meet the customer’s offer, then THE BURDEN SHIFTS TO THE DEALER to explain what they can do, and why. It is then up to the customer to fight for what he/she wants, to re-negotiate based on new, valid information, or to walk away.

What adds complexity are challenging credit situations, funky trade-ins, uninformed price demands, or uncertainty on the part of a customer as to whether they are at the dealer to buy a car or are just looking.

This is why, from the very first post on this thread, it has been stressed that, if the best possible deal is the goal, the customer has to have it all together PRIOR to entering into negotiations to buy or lease a car. If it’s all together, and an appointment with a salesperson has been made, and that salesperson knows what the customer wants, then the visit to the dealer can be a very straightforward business negotiation.

But the reason salespeople are often the way they are is because their managers want to maintain control, and, in their world, every buyer is a liar. So, play it straight, bring in your best, well-researched numbers, remain sensitive to dealership dynamics, share with your salesperson your honest desire to give all top marks on the survey, start low based on your most informed understanding of the numbers, and, if you’re way out of line, MAKE THE DEALER straighten you out with clearly documented facts. Look at the dealer’s best offer, and choose.

And let’s hope the way we behave as customers doesn’t result in salespeople getting ripped by their managers at the next sales meeting.

 

Yeah, and bring 'em a stolen police car as your trade. Like in The Hangover, where the dudes wake up all hung over, go down to the hotel valet to get the car, and valet drives up with a cop car!

 

And I agree. Meant to reply to that yesterday, but was busy with customers.

 

Some customers think it’s clever to negotiate a car deal with their trade-in parked at home and unknown to the dealer. The thinking behind this strategy is that a better price can be negotiated on the new car if the dealer thinks it will be financed or leased without the added complexity of factoring a trade into the deal.

First, most people buy or lease a car every three to five years. Car dealers are selling cars every day. Even if a customer bought a new car once per year, the car dealer still has a 364 day advantage over that customer– the dealer gets 364 days of practice dealing with customers who think they’re being slick before the once-a-year customer comes into the dealership to try his/her best shot.

My advice comes from Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry. “A man’s gotta know his limitations.”

If it’s a slick contest, the dealer wins by a mile.

So, go to the Blue Book, or the Black Book, or the various pricing web sites and get an idea of the current market value of your car. Spend an hour at CarMax and they will give you a firm cash offer on the spot which is generally reflective of the wholesale market that week. Some web sites will give you a referral to a local dealer who will agree to give you a pre-determined price for your car, assuming, upon their inspection, it is what you claim it is, which, according to the dealer doing the appraisal, it never is.

No matter how clean your sled, to a car dealer, it’s still only a sled, which will need some level of reconditioning and prep for resale or auction. So, if top dollar for your trade is essential, then brave the carjackers and low-ballers and check bouncers, and no-shows, and dudes with too much cologne, and sell it yourself.

But if you want to hear what the dealer will give you for your trade, don’t back door it. Just call the dealer when you’re ready to make a deal, tell the dealer what you’re driving, what, if anything, you owe, and ask them if they would like the opportunity to evaluate your car as a trade in on the car you are giving them the opportunity to sell you.

On my most recent deal on a new 2017 Clubman S All4, the MINI dealer flat out told me I would do best by taking my current ride to the local Range Rover dealer. The MINI manager told me, over the phone, before we met, that, based on the deal he was willing to do for me on the new MINI, he would have to go so low on my 2014 Range Rover trade that I’d end up giving back a chunk of the savings he was building into the MINI deal. He said, “Your Range Rover doesn’t fit onto my lot.”

I did visit the local Range Rover dealer and he gladly bought my Range Rover for more than the lease payoff – enough more to cover the drive offs on my new MINI lease. And he handled all the lease unwind paperwork with his direct electronic link to the Range Rover captive lender. It took less than half an hour. So, sometimes honesty begets honesty, and it all falls into place.

But trust me on this. If you think you can outfox a dealer on your trade-in, at some point the dealer will know what you’re doing, and might even let you think you’ve fooled him. But you won’t, so don’t bother trying to slide your trade in through the back door.

 

MINI sales tanked in April:

 

It must be stressed, the few who snag the best car deals do so only because most buyers aren’t in the best position to negotiate a rock bottom deal. Just like in so many other areas of life these days, there are a few big winners and then there’s everyone else. Car sales is an excellent place to see how this is playing out every day.

Central to this thread is the assumption that those seeking information on how to negotiate good deals on new car purchases have the means and good credit necessary to negotiate a deal without the extraneous complexities credit and/or trade-in issues introduce into the process.

In a nutshell, clean deals usually mean better deals. The dealer will figure out that a very low margin deal is a fast and clean way to move a unit. The salesperson gets a mini commission and gets a sale up on the board and doesn’t need to worry about a deal falling apart over credit or trade-in issues. And there’s always a chance that some additional profit can be snagged in F&I, either through dealer-arranged financing or maybe some add-ons.

If a customer is over-extended and has a low credit score, or if a customer is upside down in a trade and needs to roll over negative equity into the new deal, this will make getting a good deal harder. Or if a trade is owned free and clear but has little resale value because it is old or thrashed, yet the customer needs substantial trade equity for a down payment or lease drive offs, these realities can reduce a customer’s negotiating leverage.

Generally speaking, car dealers make the least profit on new car sales to well-qualified customers who demand deep discounts. Car dealers often hold onto better gross margins, and bigger dollar gross, on used car sales or new car sales to unprepared or higher credit risk customers. A customer with not great, but financeable credit worthiness, can mean a big payday for a dealer. The more complicated the transaction, the more opportunities there are for a car dealer to profit.

A complex deal, with credit issues or trade equity issues or down payment issues means more work for the dealer, but, often, a bigger payday. The extreme example is the customer who is barely able to get financed and is basically told by the dealer which car he/she can buy. The dealer can unload a car that’s been on the lot too long, or one that has a bunch of “trunk” money because it’s last year’s model that the manufacturer is paying large incentives for the dealer to move. Or maybe there’s a used car where the dealer’s cost is low that can be sold for an asking price that represents several thousand dollars of gross profit.

So, here’s a winning tip for those who may not be optimally positioned to negotiate the best deal – don’t roll over just because your situation isn’t ideal. Come into the dealer well-informed regarding the value of your trade, the invoice of the new car you want or the wholesale and retail book values of the used car you want. Be prepared to ask all the same questions the well-qualified buyer feels comfortable asking. It is always okay to ask, “Is that the absolute best you can do for me?” And when the dealer responds that’s the best he can do, tell the dealer you’ll need to think about it… unless he can go $X lower on the price or $Y dollars higher on your trade, or Z% lower on the interest rate, or $Q lower on the down payment, or whatever it takes to make the deal a little bit better.

If your counter-proposal is just a little better for you than what the dealer has said is his best, a not-so-great deal still has a chance to get better. And if the deal stinks, there are tens of thousands of cars for sale every day, so, with a broken heart, it may be best to walk away from the dealer’s “best” offer if the dealer can’t find a way to make his best deal good enough for you to do.

 

Here is some info on current nation offers from MINI USA

Customer must visit an authorized MINI Dealer between May 2 and May 31, 2017 to receive the $1,500 cash offer for the 2017 MINI Cooper and Cooper S Clubman; $1,250 cash offer for the 2017 Cooper and Cooper S Countryman, including ALL4; $750 cash offer for Cooper and Cooper S Hardtop 2-Door, Cooper and Cooper S Hardtop 4-door, and Cooper and Cooper S Convertible models. Must purchase, finance or lease and take vehicle delivery from available dealer inventory between May 2 and May 31, 2017 to redeem offer. Credit is used to offset against vehicle MSRP and cannot be used for tax, title, registration, destination or other dealership processing fees. Can be combined with other MINI offers except certificates.

These Manufacturer's offers are IN ADDITION to any discounts a customer negotiates with a dealer.

So, on a $35,000 MSRP car, if a customer negotiated 5% off of sticker, that would be $33,250 less the applicable rebate. AND REMEMBER, always negotiate the out the door price so that any dealer packs are factored in, and, if possible, offset or negotiated away.

Example:

$35,000 MSRP x .95 = $33,250 - $750 (Cooper S HT Rebate) = $32,500 plus tax and government fees. 32,500/35,000 = 92.8% of MSRP plus tax and government fees.

Example:

$40,000 MSRP x.95 = $38,000 - $1,500 (Clubman S Rebate) = $36,500 plus tax and government fees. 36,500/40,000 = 91.25% of MSRP plus tax and government fees.

ANY Doc fees or other non-government fees would need to be offset by additional dealer discounts.

Also, there are low APR manufacturer sponsored loan rates available for qualified customers.

A nice discount plus a rebate plus discounted financing could make for a sweet deal, just as long as the dealer doesn't claw anything back.

 

Just a reminder, here’s a real deal from October 2016 when the rebate was $2,000 and rates were low. The dealer discounted the car $3,221(7.5%) before crediting the $2,000 rebate. The dealer threw in a $65 retail sun shade and free weekly car washes to offset the $80 doc fee on this deal. There was no trade because the lease return trade was sold to another dealer with enough net to cover drive offs on this deal:

MSRP $42,680.00

Dealer Discount+Rebate $5,221.00 12.233%

Sun shade $-
Wheel Locks in MSRP $-
Doc Fee $80.00

TOTAL Adds $80.00

CAP Cost $37,539.00 87.790%

Cap Reduction from Driveoff $31.50

Other Credits $-

Adjusted CAP Cost $37,507.50 87.716%

Money Factor 0.00132 3.168%

Residual $27,742.00 65.000%

Drive Offs
Lease Fee $925.00
DMV $345.00
Taxes/fees/cap reduction $144.02
First Month Payment $385.98
Security Deposit(s) $-
Trade Credit $-
Other Credits $-
TOTAL DRIVE OFF $1,800.00

 

Must purchase, finance or lease and take vehicle delivery from available dealer inventory between May 2 and May 31, 2017 to redeem offer.

So what,you ask, constitutes "available dealer inventory?"

If you have ordered a car and it arrives from the factory and your dealer receives and preps the car for delivery, it's coming from the dealer's available inventory.

If you take delivery from a dealer during the offer period, you get the rebate, IN ADDITION to any dealer discounts you negotiate.

 

I OP'ed a thread on a BMW forum about how Courtesy is Power, explaining that a high line general manager told me the number one gripe he gets from his line sales force is how much they hate working with nasty, rude, demanding customers. He said customers at his store "catch more flies with honey."

The thread started a firestorm of beefs from posters who railed about how all dealers are "scum" and "crooks" and how you've got to establish who's in charge and take no BS.

Apparently the idea that by remaining calm, cool, always polite, and gently standing firm on a low but legit offer is totally ten minutes ago. Now, I am told, you gotta be tough and stand your ground and as soon as things get in any way weird you need to walk.

I ain't buyin' it, but I wonder how others feel -- is the Zen approach wimpy?
If so, and if I'm supposed to threaten to walk out any time anything at a dealership gets weird, I may never be able to do a car deal again!!

What do others think?

 

I walked in to talk to them about the Countryman S E. at lunch. Wife stopped back in with me that evening and we dropped a check for 25% of the estimated cost of a car no one really had the configurable price for yet.

Order board opened next day and they changed their initial spec unit to my spec and had build number Friday. I still don't know the final price but I am happy a a lamb.

 

Nasty or nice. Depends on the salesperson, when you catch them, what kind of mood they are in, time of month, quotas, etc. I don't think one size fits all so staying pleasant is my preferred mode.

Not having to buy at the point in time of walking into the showroom affords you the best negotiating place. For me, I've never walked into a showroom without an interest in buying a car. I don't kick tires and therefore I don't negotiate very well, if I see it I want it.

 

I've been in sales before (admittedly it's been appliances and electronics at Sears and cellular sales.... so I had no haggling power one way or another). Given those experiences, I'm not prepared to be a total @$$.
My experience buying Cooper pre owned did give a further list of questions to confirm if/when I buy another Mini preowned. Knowing what I now know, I should have asked for at least another $300- 800 off the sticker, with a voucher for new suspension if I couldn't get more than $300 (They only had 1 key and it was missing both rubber buttons and one microswitch).

Anyway... The "Golden Rule" should always be applied. Believe me, I would bend over backwards for a customer who was good to me, but do no more than was required to keep my job for a customer who acted like God and the world owed them a lifetime supply of favors.

 

Grant Cardone, a car sales trainer who knows every car dealer trick in the book says this as part of his advice on steps to buying a car:

"Don't be defensive; present yourself as open and easy. This will actually make the dealer easier to work with. The customer that approaches a car dealer in a defensive and pushy way tends to cause the dealer to respond the same way."

So, I’m at the local shipyard yesterday afternoon checking on some custom work the yard manager is doing for me and I can’t help but overhear this rather loud customer at the other end of the counter making arrangements to haul out his yacht. He is not happy. He is insisting that when he arrives at 6:30 AM on the appointed date he expects his yacht to be the first to be hoisted out. The yard man – nicest, calmest man you’d ever want to meet – is patiently explaining that the lifting crew needs to build the cradle and will need his boat to be there in order for them to get everything measured correctly. The customer says, “Jes#$ Chirs#! The manager has already seen my boat….” “Yes,” says the yard man, “I was there. But sometimes we launch a boat before we start lifting boats. The lift crew works it out to save time. They have a system…” The customer says, “I don’t care about that. If I’m here first I expect to be first. And it needs to be back in the water in four days or…” And on it went.

I winked at the billing clerk, who is well known to me as, over the years, she has taken plenty of my money, and consistently given me special discounts when preparing my bills. I leaned over the counter and whispered to her, “Guess who’s gonna be hauled last.” She grinned and said, “You bettcha.” I then asked her, “Are you gonna tell him about the specials?” “Nope,” she said.

Unpleasant as they are, I love guys like the jerk who was cussing and fussing at the yard man today. They save me so much money because of all the love, and perks, that come to me in response to the sincere respect and courtesy I try to show to everyone who helps me -- even car salespeople. Especially car salespeople!

 

What about LEASING instead of buying? How can we evaluate and compare lease terms? It seems easy to get bamboozled by money rate, residual value, cap cost reduction, origination fees, factory deals, etc., etc. Compared to conventional purchase financing, as discussed thoroughly above, leasing's low payments are tempting.

 

See Post #7 on this thread.

Also check out leaseguide.com

I almost always lease. I negotiate the deal just as a purchase to get the capitalized cost down where it needs to be, then I use the offers on the manufacturer's web site to learn as much as possible about rates and terms, and then I grind from there. Dealers try to convince people who lease that the advertised lease specials cannot be changed or applied to cars other than the one specified in the offer. Usually not true!

Always enjoy that new car smell. Basically, I rent my car for a discounted rate. But if one likes to trick out and customize a car, leasing isn't a good way to go.

 

Here's a summary of a recent article in the Los Angeles Times:

Three years ago, automakers leased about 3.3 million vehicles, just over 23% of U.S. sales to individual buyers. The business was good. Cars were holding their values and automakers expected to sell them at a tidy profit when leases ended in two or three years. Cars were still popular, making up half the nation's sales.

Leasing continued to grow, hitting a record of more than 30% of sales earlier this year. Meanwhile, buyer tastes shifted to SUVs and demand for cars faded. Car sales are now about 38% of the market. As a result, used-vehicle prices tumbled 7% in March compared with a year earlier, according to an NADA Guides index. The organization expects them to fall 6% for the full year.
Data collected by Kelley Blue Book shows leasing dropped to less than 30% of sales in April after three years of increases.

For the U.S. auto industry, about 3.5 million vehicles will come off lease this year, after 3 million returned last year, according to Automotive Lease Guide.

The number of cars coming off leases each year will grow through at least 2020, when Automotive Lease Guide expects more than 4.1 million lease cars to be returned.

Since the lightly used lease return cars are entering a market that favors trucks and SUVs, the prices will fall, said Jim Lentz, Toyota's North America chief executive. “It's more difficult to get rid of them,” he said. “You're going to have very attractive certified used passenger car payments relative to new passenger cars.” You can get a great late-model used car for a bargain price.
Lease deals are starting to wane as many companies cut back to control the used-car supply.

The off-lease cars are attracting even customers with the high credit scores, according to Experian. A decade ago, about 49% of prime credit buyers bought used. That's now up to almost 55%.

Competition from used cars probably will push down the price of new ones. Lower used-car prices also can reduce new-car prices because buyers won't get as much money when they trade cars in.

Eric Lyman, lead analyst for Automotive Lease Guide, advises consumers that now is a good time to lease a car, before leasing cuts become more widespread. Although he expects the number of vehicles leased this year to stay flat, payments are likely to rise as automakers offer less generous terms.

In two or three years, the price of popular used SUVs could fall too, because they're now being leased in large numbers. It may take four years or so, but prices eventually will stabilize as automakers cut new-car production and reduce leasing.

 

Automotive News is reporting that MINI USA is offering incentives if dealers hit used car sales targets. Dealers receive an additional 1% of sticker on new cars sold as back end money, based on used car sales targets. So, if they move more used MINI's, they make a bit more on new MINI sales. Another example of how incentives to dealers can influence deals available to customers.

Here's the Automotive News article:

Mini executives want the brand's U.S. dealerships to pursue used-car sales with more vigor. Higher used-car sales would help Mini and its retailers at a time when new-car sales have slumped, they say.

So Mini USA launched a program at the beginning of the year that pays dealerships bonuses for hitting used-car sales targets.

Each Mini store gets a customized target. If a store hits its target, it will receive additional margin of 1 percentage point of the vehicle's sticker price on each new-car sale.

"The used-car business is a huge potential for the Mini dealers in the U.S.," Thomas Felbermair, vice president of Mini Region Americas, told Automotive News. "The numbers show that dealers with a strong used-car business are the successful dealers. It's just a matter of focus."

About a third of Mini's 127 U.S. dealerships don't meet the brand's preferred minimum standard for used-car sales, Felbermair said.

That would be to sell at least one used car for every two new cars sold. A ratio of one used car for each new car sold is ideal, Mini executives said. Yet some Mini dealerships don't actively build their used-car inventories by buying at auctions or purchasing off-lease vehicles. It also helps to have a dedicated used-car manager or sales staff.

"It's your mindset: Do you have a used-car business unit or do you have a little bit of used car because it comes with the new car?" said Sebastian Mackensen, global head of Mini. "It doesn't get the focus and the attention. And then it also doesn't give you the full opportunity of profit and supporting your business. The cars are getting sold and bought anyway, but other people in the industry outside of our franchise system are getting part of the cake."

Maximizing used-car sales is especially important when new-car volume is suffering vs. previous years, Mackensen said.

Through the first four months of 2017, Mini's U.S. sales fell 12 percent from a year earlier to 13,732, following an 11 percent drop last year. The falloff comes as sales of Mini's cars have been pinched by a consumer shift to bigger vehicles amid low gasoline prices. Mini's annual sales in the U.S. hit a peak of 66,502 in 2013. Mini sold 52,030 vehicles last year in the U.S.

U.S. dealers welcome the used-car bonus program, said Michael Vadasz, chairman of the Mini National Dealer Council. But they also want more support from Mini on marketing used Minis to consumers, plus better wholesale pricing for off-lease vehicles.

"The crux of the issue, it's really more about the demand for the car," said Vadasz, general manager of Otto's Mini in Exton, Pa. "Demand through the first part of the year on the used side has not been as robust as everyone would have hoped."

Otto's Mini typically has a fairly good used-car business, selling 25 used cars for every 30 to 40 new cars sold monthly, he said. But so far in 2017, the dealership has failed to hit any of its monthly used-car sales targets.

About half the Mini dealers at a 20 group meeting Vadasz attended in early May also said they weren't hitting targets yet.

The targets set by Mini seem to be higher in the first half of the year, Vadasz said.

"The good news is" that they are cumulative, so dealerships can catch up with a good month or two if they miss a goal.

As Mini explains it, the monthly bonus program is for 2017 and will be paid out quarterly. If a target is missed in a given month, the bonus money will be escrowed and can still be earned if the annual target is achieved.

Missed months can be made up until year end.

Vadasz said, "I'm one of the dealers hoping to make it up in the last half of the year."

 

MINI USA reports an INCREASE in year over year used car sales, though CPO sales are down.

Here's BMWNA/MINIUSA May 2017 NEW car sales, which are lagging year over year:

 

Does this mean they've been taking in more high-mileage cars (that don't qualify for CPO) in trade? Or are they buying more MINIs in auctions of inventory from other car buyers? Or…?

(We may not know, of course.)

 

There are costs with certifying a car as CPO which, of course, get passed along to the buyer. Lease returns that have original factory warranty left can be sold as non-CPO offering better pricing. And, of course, the friendly F&I office is always there to sell an extended service contract which is sometimes viewed as a better option for a used MINI buyer.

You're right, we may never know. But smart buyers are snagging late model MINI's for a fraction of the new car cost. New life for mature MINI's

 

The lease deals and rebates aren't as generous as in the recent past, but there are incentives, some of which are beyond the view of us mere mortals.

Find or order the MINI you want, new or used, and drive a hard bargain so you can drive a great car at the right price.

I just read on a BMW blog that someone snagged a 328d with a $50K+ MSRP for something like $32K -- it was a dealer demo with 4,500 miles. And the dealer thre in 0%, as in ZERO percent, 60 month financing.

The waters may be deep, but you can still sound for the bottom. Push politely, but push hard.

And give us reports on how you do -- if you don't feel it's appropriate to publish specific numbers, let us know how your deals are coming together in terms of closeness to Invoice, or interest rates, or any other goodies that sweetened your deal. WE LEARN FROM ONE ANOTHER. Information = Wealth for fellow motorers.

Don't be making me carry the entire load here!!

 

Any suggestions on how to go about on buying the car at end of the lease? I read online that you return the lease, and the dealer can buy your car from the lease company for cheaper price and then sell it right back to you at $1k-$2k lower price than what would have been the lease-end buy out residual price. Of course it'll depend on the market demand. My F56 lease (36 months, 60% residual) ends in November and I haven't decided on whether to just return it or buy it.